Last Trump vs The Seventh

[seeking the lost]

14 hours ago, n2thelight said:

It is a bad thing as it sets one up for the deception of satan pretending to be Christ,which the tribilation of satan is all about,not death and destruction like most think!!

You must be thinking about the pre-tribulation  rapture or the mid trib or even the post tribulation positions.  These theories are not based on the sound Word but on the wishful thinking of man.   I agree that these are deceptive and creat a false hope.  The rapture is at the end of the thousand years and is preceded by the resurrection.  This is the blessed hope and we are to encourage one another with these words.

There is death and destruction in the time of tribulation more than any other time on earth.   Consider the words of Jesus in Matthew 24: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Many Christians will be beheaded and many will starve.  How is it that you can say it is not death and destruction?  Did you not read the part after the seventh trumpet?  Seven bowls are poured out.  You might want to take a look at these. 

Revelation 16 King James Version (KJV)

16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.

5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.

6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

If you stop reading after the seventh trumpet you will miss this part.

[seeking the lost]

15 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Yes Christ Holy Spirit is here,but He's not,that won't happen until the 7th and last trump..

In the book of Revelation chapter one it is written, "8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."  John writing to the seven churches, "4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;".  The key word is "is".  Jesus was and is and is to come.  Do not discount the importance of is.

The nature and the attributes of God are another clue.  God is omnipresent which means that He is present everywhere at all times.  God the Father, Jesus Christ the son and the Holy Spirit are each omnipresent.  With this there is the understanding of mutual indwelling.  Look it up.  They are all here and not absent.

I know a man who teaches the doctrine of Jesus a man forever.  That Jesus is a man up in heaven and as a man will one day return.  This same man teaches intimacy with Jesus in devotion and prayer.  I say to him, "Intimacy without close proximity is fantasy."    If you say that you have a personal relationship with a Jesus who is only up in heaven you have a fantasy.

Blessed is He Who was and IS and is to come.

[seeking the lost]

15 hours ago, n2thelight said:

There will be no flesh in the millennium as that age has ended

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Paul is now going to show us a mystery that deals with our generation, for a mystery is something that cannot be understood. However, when the details and clues of the mystery are know, then it is no longer a mystery. This mystery deals with a time when something is going to happen all over the earth to all flesh bodies, when these flesh bodies are not die anymore. Why will this be? Because all people living in their flesh bodies will be changed instantly from their flesh bodies, into their new incorruptible bodies. We have already established that each of us have two bodies, one is of the flesh, and the other body is a spiritual body that is within our flesh body. The spiritual body is not made alive or freed from the flesh body until the flesh body is done away with.

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The time that it will take to change all the physical or natural bodies on this earth into their spiritual bodies will be faster than you can wink your eye. It is instant. Paul is telling us that this change will come "at the last trump", and that is when there are no more trumps. He identifies that trumpet as the seventh trumpet, and we know that this is the very moment when Jesus Christ comes back to earth to establish His Millennium kingdom, right here on earth. We are talking about God's trumpets here and on the sixth trumpet Satan comes to earth to deceive the whole world.

If you are waiting for a rapture, then you are going to be raptured by someone other than Jesus Christ for He is coming to earth to set up His kingdom here. The seventh trump is the exact time when the change takes place, and at no other place.

Remember the "dead" are the "spiritually dead" in Christ. "Raised" again means to "become awakened", to become active from another existence. The soul will shed its flesh and blood body to take on the new spiritual body, which is the incorruptible body. You may be spiritually dead, but you will also take on your new incorruptible body, which you will live in for the Millennium age kingdom of Christ.

Everyone is going to enter into the only dimension whereby any soul can be judged. This change from the flesh body into your new spiritual or incorruptible has nothing to do with the condition of your soul. If you were lost before, you still will be lost, and if you have received Jesus Christ and are under His shed blood, you will be in that same spiritual condition. What is happening is at the sounding of the seventh which is the last trumpet all flesh will be done away with, and all souls will now exist in their spiritual bodies.

Now let's do the dead

Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Notice there are two sets of books here. The first called "The Books" is to judge the unsaved. The second is the "Book of Life" where only the names of the saved are recorded. The saved have had their sins removed from God's judgment and booted out. Though they were committed, the blood of Christ has covered them from being used against us.

Notice how all souls are judged "according to their works". Does it talk about faith here after the Millennium? No. The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration. The first resurrection takes faith into consideration. That was back on "the Lord's day". That was Jesus Christ's "great day". On the last day of the Millennium age, souls are judged by works only.

Why are you judged for works only? Faith is something hoped for but unseen. You don't see Jesus Christ on earth today, you will see his wonderful works, and be led by Him and His Spirit in the Millennium age. Today He is in heaven and not walking on this earth. However, in the millennium, He will be on earth, and all will have full intelligence, with full recall and will be taught. The Heavenly Father honors all those with grace, that have accepted His Son by faith through repentance without Christ's physical presence here on earth, if you believed in His Word.

To those who are not under grace in the Millennium, their salvation will be only through and by their works. For faith doesn't exist to them. There will be no ignorance, physical handicap, for you will see, know, and experience Our Lord first hand.

If you follow the Antichrist, the first Christ to appear, you will have forfeited your salvation in this earth age. You will not be under the grace of God, and your works will be the only thing that matters on the last day of the Millennium, the day of judgment. They will be judged by works alone, for they have seen Jesus Christ, and are without excuse. The "rapture theory" leaves believers defenseless against Satan, for they will be taken in by Satan's deceptions.

https://www.theseason.org/nt.htm

You are quoting I Corinthians 15 as your proof text.  Look at the context.

1 Corinthians 15: 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

This resurrection and the "shall all be changed" is at the end of the thousand years.  That resurrection is not movable to suit you doctrine.

[bluelotus]

I still don't see how you think we won't have flesh. Didn't Jesus' resurrected body demonstrate what we shall be after resurrection? Luke 24:39 - But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38. And He said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39. Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself: handle Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have.

flesh and BONE, not flesh and blood

Edited April 21, 2018 by bluelotus

[n2thelight]

On 4/20/2018 at 3:11 PM, seeking the lost said:

In the book of Revelation chapter one it is written, "8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."  John writing to the seven churches, "4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;".  The key word is "is".  Jesus was and is and is to come.  Do not discount the importance of is.

The nature and the attributes of God are another clue.  God is omnipresent which means that He is present everywhere at all times.  God the Father, Jesus Christ the son and the Holy Spirit are each omnipresent.  With this there is the understanding of mutual indwelling.  Look it up.  They are all here and not absent.

I know a man who teaches the doctrine of Jesus a man forever.  That Jesus is a man up in heaven and as a man will one day return.  This same man teaches intimacy with Jesus in devotion and prayer.  I say to him, "Intimacy without close proximity is fantasy."    If you say that you have a personal relationship with a Jesus who is only up in heaven you have a fantasy.

Blessed is He Who was and IS and is to come.

Yea that is the key word(IS)to come ,yet He's not here...

[n2thelight]

On 4/20/2018 at 3:19 PM, seeking the lost said:

You are quoting I Corinthians 15 as your proof text.  Look at the context.

1 Corinthians 15: 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

This resurrection and the "shall all be changed" is at the end of the thousand years.  That resurrection is not movable to suit you doctrine.

No,it can't be,ALL are changed at the one and only return of Christ

Christ is already here at the end of the 1000 years...

Please show a verse where Christ returns at the end of the millennium

[Joulre2abba]

On 3/15/2018 at 3:15 AM, n2thelight said:

Paul says we gather to Christ at the last trump,how can the 7th of Rev,not be the last?

The last trump is not the 7th trump of the Revelation because Paul wrote to the believers of the church age concerning the last trump; therefore that concerns all of us.

While John wrote of the revelation which occurs after the church age; therefore it does not concern us.

The last trump and the 7th trump only have in common that trumpets are used. Other than that, they are different occurrences to different groups of people at different timeframes.

The last trump has with it the resurrection of the dead and being changed from a flesh and natural body to a glorified body as Jesus has.. that connects with 1 Thes.4:13-17 of what happens at the time of the rapture.

The 7th trump (Rev.11:15 +) has with it (vs18) "the time of his wrath is come." The apostle Paul told the church age believers in 1 Thes.5:9 " For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Since all believers already have salvation = new birth = saved by grace. Then the salvation that Paul speaks of is the deliverance from wrath.. aka the time of Jacob's trouble.. aka the 7 year Tribulation.. aka the Day of the Lord.

The last trump is a Jewish reference phrase that has to do with one of God's appointed times; a moed; the Feast of Trumpets. Paul speaks of it, because that is the next feast in line to be fulfilled. The first was Passover, the second was Pentecost, we are all waiting for the third. It is the time of our being gathered together unto Him.

The Jews observe that feast every year at the time of harvest. They blow their shofar horns. The last trump is done by one man who uses all his breath to hold that last note for as long as his lungs can do it. For every year that they've done it and that feast has not been fulfilled, it has been a rehearsal. But there will come the day when that horn is blown, that the resurrection of the dead will take place, and we who are alive shall be changed., and we will meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then, as Paul also wrote in 2 Thes.2:6 of the Restrainer being removed. He who has restrained the lawless one from being revealed before his time. That restraining power is removed at the same time that we- the believers, are removed. And then the lawless one, the antichrist is revealed, as indicated in Rev.6:1. So, it is sure in the sequence given in the Revelation, that the church was raptured before Rev.6:1. There are many who see Rev.4:1 as the representation of that rapture.

So as the 7th trump is near the timing of the Second Coming of Christ, that means that the 7th trump is near the end of the Tribulation. So the last trump and the 7th trump are seven years apart from each other.

This brief information shows why the last trump and the 7th trump cannot be the same thing.

[n2thelight]

1 hour ago, Joulre2abba said:

o as the 7th trump is near the timing of the Second Coming of Christ, that means that the 7th trump is near the end of the Tribulation. So the last trump and the 7th trump are seven years apart from each other.

This brief information shows why the last trump and the 7th trump cannot be the same thing.

So we have 2 last trumps?Don't think so..

1 hour ago, Joulre2abba said:

Then, as Paul also wrote in 2 Thes.2:6 of the Restrainer being removed. He who has restrained the lawless one from being revealed before his time. That restraining power is removed at the same time that we- the believers, are removed. And then the lawless one, the antichrist is revealed, as indicated in Rev.6:1. So, it is sure in the sequence given in the Revelation, that the church was raptured before Rev.6:1. There are many who see Rev.4:1 as the representation of that rapture.

Who is the restrainer?

 

1 hour ago, Joulre2abba said:

The Jews observe that feast every year at the time of harvest. They blow their shofar horns. The last trump is done by one man who uses all his breath to hold that last note for as long as his lungs can do it. For every year that they've done it and that feast has not been fulfilled, it has been a rehearsal. But there will come the day when that horn is blown, that the resurrection of the dead will take place, and we who are alive shall be changed., and we will meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Most Jew's don't believe in Christ,so what they think,don't matter to me right now..

1 hour ago, Joulre2abba said:

The last trump and the 7th trump only have in common that trumpets are used. Other than that, they are different occurrences to different groups of people at different timeframes.

The last trump has with it the resurrection of the dead and being changed from a flesh and natural body to a glorified body as Jesus has.. that connects with 1 Thes.4:13-17 of what happens at the time of the rapture.

The 7th trump (Rev.11:15 +) has with it (vs18) "the time of his wrath is come." The apostle Paul told the church age believers in 1 Thes.5:9 " For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Christ returns only once more,other than at death,please show where people go to Heaven

[Daniel 11:36]

Jesus Christ is already aware of your twisted beliefs N2

.... He does does not come or go .... He is totally plugged in

And I will tell you again, when the 8th trumpet blows after the tribulation period including the 7th, He will do exactly what He says

He will gather the survivors of Israel from all nations and these enter and populate His millennial kingdom as mortals

Then He will gather all of the Gentiles who survive the tribulation period and separate them for the same in Matthew 25:31-46

Read your Bible

 

 

[seeking the lost]

14 hours ago, n2thelight said:

No,it can't be,ALL are changed at the one and only return of Christ

Christ is already here at the end of the 1000 years...

Please show a verse where Christ returns at the end of the millennium

We who are alive and remain will be changed.

Here is the verse; 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

This compliments the 1 Corinthians 15 passage.  Both are informing us that the dead in Christ will rise first at His coming. 

 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
    Where, O death, is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This resurrection is at the end of the thousand years.  You may want to add a resurrection somewhere else but I have not found one.  There are two resurrections written of by John, the first is of the tribulation martyrs, The second which is the rest of the dead who are raised at the end of the thousand years.

Revelation 20:  4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Those who are raised in the first resurrection are raised to reign as stated.  They do not go up and then come down to reign.  There is no big U-Turn in the sky.  Everyone else is raised at the end of the thousand years.  After the resurrection comes the rapture.