Last Trump vs The Seventh

[JoeCanada]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

I don't think 1 Cor 15:52 says anything about God blowing a trumpet. It is a trump OF God. Anything else is assumption. It could mean 'permission', 'a rental', 'particular purpose', 'specific time', and each use is allowed by God, even as he does not sound the trump personally. So out of all those possibilities, why choose the one you did?

Paul wrote 1 Thes and 1 Cor long before John wrote Revelation, so Paul's readers would have no knowledge of the 7 trumpets of Revelation.

Paul intended them to understand what he was writing about. Paul's writing was distinctly in reference to the church and the closing of the church age at the rapture.

The trump of God summons the church.

Numbers 10 gives instruction to Israel about the use of trumpets to call an assembly of the people and to set them in motion.

The first trumpet blast (v. 4) called the leaders together, while a continual blowing was an alarm for the people. The last blast indicated the movement of the last group in the camp.

So, I Cor 15:23 speaks of different orders, or ranks, in the resurrection. "Every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at His coming"

Similarly, 1 Thes 4 :16-17 divides Christ's own into two groups - the dead in Christ, and those who are alive and remain.

So,  scripture doesn't "actually" say that it is God who blows the trumpet, same as in Rev it doesn't "actually" say it is God who gives the angels their trumpets...... we do know that they are different. Otherwise, the church in Rev 8 is right in the middle of the Day of the Lord (the day of his wrath), and we DO know that the church is not subject to the Wrath of God. Yes, the church will go thru the Great Tribulation, but will be rescued BEFORE the Day of the Lord. 

 

 

[inchrist]

13 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Maybe you have not read Matthew 25: 

Rev 11

Here are your sheep

and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,both great and small

Here are your goats

and for destroying those who destroy the earth.

Here is the kingdom

Rev 11

The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.

And here are the goats thrown out of the kingdom into darkness

Matthew 8:12 

12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the DARKNESS, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Rev 16 The Fifth Bowl of God’s Wrath

10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into DARKNESS.

And here is your gnashing of teeth Fifth bowl

Men gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

Fulfilling the prophecy:  

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment

All nations are gathered before the King.  He separates them sheep on the right goats on the left. All are judged on their works.  This is the last day judgement that you do not want to be at but you will have no choice.  You can make up stories and change words all you want but all will be there.  It is the day of judgement it is the day that the books are opened

No I'm afraid Judgement has already started with the Church
 

1 Peter 4:17 NIV

For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God

You can also get that sense here of already judged

Rev 7:13

And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 am not sure what you mean by mortal.  What do you mean mortal

Mortal - the opposite of immortal.

One who is subject to death, the opposite of one who is immortal and not subject to death.

Rev 20:6
Over such the second death has no power, (immortal)

Amazing, we only get to be in the grave two day and then we are raised.  That is just silly

I never stated the moment you die that 3 days later you are raised....however you are raised 3 days later from and for an event.

 

But first let's establish the biblical pattern

Example 1

John 2:1-2

 “And the Third DAY  there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called and his disciples to the marriage.”

John 2:1-11
And both Jesus was called and his disciples, to the marriage.

Prophetic pattern

Third day, Jesus and His disciples called to a marriage

Please recall Matthew 25 again

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were READY went in with him to the marriage : and the door was shut

Let's see what else happened at the wedding of Cana....Christ  CHANGED   water into fine wine

1 Corinthians 15

“Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep(die), but we all shall be CHANGED, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED.”

Example 2

Esther 5:1

Now it came to pass on the THIRD DAY, that Esther put on her royal apparel, 

Exodus 19:10,

   “And the Lord said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes. And BE READY against THE THIRD DAY: for the THE THIRD DAY  the Lord will come down in the sight of ALL the PEOPLE upon mount Sinai”

Please notice the following

On the 3rd day

Rev 11: 11

But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them,and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

Example 3

Genesis 22:4

Then on the THE THIRD DAY Abraham lifted lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

 

Luke 21:28 where we read these words

And when these things begin to come to pass, then LOOK UP, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws nigh

No one who does not have the mark of God will make it into the Millennium

Let's not pretend that Christ will not execute and punish people in the millennium

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people

Ps 2:9; 72:9-11

2:9 You will break them with an iron scepter; you will smash them like a potter’s jar!’” 72:9 Before him the coastlands will bow down,and his enemies will lick the dust. 10 The kings of Tarshish and the coastlands will offer gifts;the kings of Sheba and Seba will bring tribute.11 All kings will bow down to him;all nations will serve him.

Isaiah 11:4

11:4 He will treat the poor fairly, and make right decisions for the downtrodden of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and order the wicked to be executed.

Zechariah 14:17

And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain

Rev 2:27

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father

 

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Paul wrote 1 Thes and 1 Cor long before John wrote Revelation, so Paul's readers would have no knowledge of the 7 trumpets of Revelation.

Paul intended them to understand what he was writing about. Paul's writing was distinctly in reference to the church and the closing of the church age at the rapture.

The trump of God summons the church.

Numbers 10 gives instruction to Israel about the use of trumpets to call an assembly of the people and to set them in motion.

The first trumpet blast (v. 4) called the leaders together, while a continual blowing was an alarm for the people. The last blast indicated the movement of the last group in the camp.

So, I Cor 15:23 speaks of different orders, or ranks, in the resurrection. "Every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at His coming"

Similarly, 1 Thes 4 :16-17 divides Christ's own into two groups - the dead in Christ, and those who are alive and remain.

So,  scripture doesn't "actually" say that it is God who blows the trumpet, same as in Rev it doesn't "actually" say it is God who gives the angels their trumpets...... we do know that they are different. Otherwise, the church in Rev 8 is right in the middle of the Day of the Lord (the day of his wrath), and we DO know that the church is not subject to the Wrath of God. Yes, the church will go thru the Great Tribulation, but will be rescued BEFORE the Day of the Lord. 

 

 

Ok, we certainly agree on the fate of the body of believers. A point; in any case, in any numbered group, when #1 is first, the highest number in that group is last when taken in order. So the 7th trump in this case is very clearly 'a' last trump. Is it 'the' last trump? Of course. In the context of the end of the age, of which the gathering, the coming of Jesus and the wrath of God are a part, there are ONLY these 7 trumps. Paul's teachings about the coming of Jesus and the gathering are also end of the age events. He must be speaking about the only last trump associated with the end of the age. 

Of course Paul knew all this. He met Jesus on the road. Jesus 2nd coming  and our gathering to Him is as good a news report as the resurrection and salvation. It's all good news!

From what I read the 7th trump occurs before the 7th seal is opened. When the 7th seal is opened the wrath of God is finished. I know that's counter to what is generally believed about Rev 8. After all, the 7th seal is opened and there is silence, and immediately, "And I saw 7 angels given 7 trumpets..." so everyone believes the trumps follow the seals in succession. I admit it does look like that. But it's, "And I saw..." not, "After this the 7 angels began to sound..." 

The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus and the wrath of God, and so is the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11 

"18 The nations were angry,
    and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
    and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,"

The wrath of God begins here and is contained in the bowls of wrath. Rev 15,  "seven angels with the seven LAST plagues—LAST because with them God’s wrath is completed. 2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name.  All the believers are in heaven before the wrath begins and were taken at the last trump, the 7th, before the vials are poured out.

So in reality the seals are opened and the trumps begin to sound in conjunction converging to the time of the 6th seal and the 7th trump, with the final act as bowls of wrath, the last events wrapping up the age of man and ushering in the reign of Jesus.

 

[Daniel 11:36]

" When the 7th seal is opened the wrath of God is finished"

 

The 7 seals are just a portent of what is coming .... then the Lord's wrath and judgment will come [Revelation 6:12-17]

His wrath and judgment begins [Revelation 8 thru 19] 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[JoeCanada]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Ok, we certainly agree on the fate of the body of believers. A point; in any case, in any numbered group, when #1 is first, the highest number in that group is last when taken in order. So the 7th trump in this case is very clearly 'a' last trump. Is it 'the' last trump? Of course. In the context of the end of the age, of which the gathering, the coming of Jesus and the wrath of God are a part, there are ONLY these 7 trumps. Paul's teachings about the coming of Jesus and the gathering are also end of the age events. He must be speaking about the only last trump associated with the end of the age. 

Of course Paul knew all this. He met Jesus on the road. Jesus 2nd coming  and our gathering to Him is as good a news report as the resurrection and salvation. It's all good news!

From what I read the 7th trump occurs before the 7th seal is opened. When the 7th seal is opened the wrath of God is finished. I know that's counter to what is generally believed about Rev 8. After all, the 7th seal is opened and there is silence, and immediately, "And I saw 7 angels given 7 trumpets..." so everyone believes the trumps follow the seals in succession. I admit it does look like that. But it's, "And I saw..." not, "After this the 7 angels began to sound..." 

The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus and the wrath of God, and so is the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11 

"18 The nations were angry,
    and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
    and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,"

The wrath of God begins here and is contained in the bowls of wrath. Rev 15,  "seven angels with the seven LAST plagues—LAST because with them God’s wrath is completed. 2 And I saw what looked like a sea of glass glowing with fire and, standing beside the sea, those who had been victorious over the beast and its image and over the number of its name.  All the believers are in heaven before the wrath begins and were taken at the last trump, the 7th, before the vials are poured out.

So in reality the seals are opened and the trumps begin to sound in conjunction converging to the time of the 6th seal and the 7th trump, with the final act as bowls of wrath, the last events wrapping up the age of man and ushering in the reign of Jesus.

 

"And I saw 7 angels given 7 trumpets..." so everyone believes the trumps follow the seals in succession. I admit it does look like that. But it's, "And I saw..." not, "After this the 7 angels began to sound..." 

Rev 8:1-2.....(KJV).....And when he had opened the 7th seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets"

If we look at Rev 8:6....(KJV)...... "and the seven angels which had the seven trumpets PREPARED themselves to sound"

So it is AFTER the 7th seal is opened that the angels were given 7 trumpets.......and then they prepared themselves to sound.

Can you show me where they are blowing the trumpets BEFORE this?

When the 7th seal is opened the wrath of God is finished

When the 7th seal is opened, the angels are given the trumpets. That is when the Wrath of God begins, followed by the bowls.

So in reality the seals are opened and the trumps begin to sound

Yes, with this I do agree

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

"And I saw 7 angels given 7 trumpets..." so everyone believes the trumps follow the seals in succession. I admit it does look like that. But it's, "And I saw..." not, "After this the 7 angels began to sound..." 

Rev 8:1-2.....(KJV).....And when he had opened the 7th seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets"

If we look at Rev 8:6....(KJV)...... "and the seven angels which had the seven trumpets PREPARED themselves to sound"

So it is AFTER the 7th seal is opened that the angels were given 7 trumpets.......and then they prepared themselves to sound.

Can you show me where they are blowing the trumpets BEFORE this?

When the 7th seal is opened the wrath of God is finished

When the 7th seal is opened, the angels are given the trumpets. That is when the Wrath of God begins, followed by the bowls.

So in reality the seals are opened and the trumps begin to sound

Yes, with this I do agree

The only way to show this is how I did in the previous post.

John only saw the angels given the trumps. John does not state explicitly, nor allude, nor imply that the angels with the trumps, and the sounding of those trumps, follow the 7th seal, even though it looks like that could be the case.  How would anyone be able write two things happening at the same time? The format of the Revelation advances the timeline, the returns in the same timeline detailing events occurring in that timeline

The common perception of the successive nature of seals, trumps, and bowls; seals 1-6 the 7th seal releasing the 7 trumps, trumps 1-6, the 7th trump releasing the bowls is refuted by the following: 

Rev 6

"12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake.The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

This is not only the sign of the coming of the Lord Jesus, but the beginning of the day of wrath as well.

Now the 7th trumpet:

(not the full passage as I'm highlighting the core points for clarity)

Rev 11

"15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
18 The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name, both great and small—and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

This is also the beginning of the day of the Lord. Rev 11:18, "...and your wrath has come...".  This really is the end of the world as we know it. The time of the rule of God is coming as seen by the concise language: the dead are judged, the living rewarded, and the destruction of the destroyers of earth.

Unless there are two days of wrath then the trumpets cannot follow the seals. Trumps must be sounded in conjunction with the seals culminating in the revealing of the day of the Lord at the 6th seal and the descent of the Lord from heaven and the gathering at the 7th trump, followed by the wrath of the Lamb.

It's more or less like this:

The first four seals run the entire course of the last week.

The fifth is the revealing of the martyrs under the throne.

The sixth is the coming of Christ, and wrath, where all believers must be gathered to avoid wrath, at the last trump, the 7th.

Luke 21:10

10 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

This is speaking to the trumps in Rev 8.

"The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up."

That's gonna cause famine. All the green grass? Wheat, oats, barley, corn, all grasses. ALL gone.

"The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed." 

More famine and now pestilence.

"The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— 11 the name of the star is Wormwood.[a] A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter."

These three trumps are all fearful events and great signs as well. Just think of the wars that will be fought for scarce resources. There will be wars everywhere, just over fresh water.  These three trumps can be directly related to Luke 21:10, well before the day of the Lord, as we see famine and pestilence in these three alone and I assure nations will rise against each other over the now scarce resources.

There is more but that should prove the truth of scripture.

 

 

[n2thelight]

The most important thing you all(rapturist)don't understand,is that ALL shall be changed,saint and sinner alike,

Those in Christ at that time don't have to worry about the 2nd death,the others although changed can still die the 2nd death

[seeking the lost]

On 5/26/2018 at 3:29 AM, inchrist said:

On 5/25/2018 at 2:02 PM, seeking the lost said:

Maybe you have not read Matthew 25: 

Rev 11

Here are your sheep

and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,both great and small

Here are your goats

and for destroying those who destroy the earth.

Here is the kingdom

Rev 11

The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.

And here are the goats thrown out of the kingdom into darkness

Matthew 8:12 

12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the DARKNESS, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

That is interesting but these things,the sheep, the goats, and the judgement, happen after the resurrection.  As hard as you are trying to have a resurrection and judgement at the seventh trumpet the closest thing that is there the two witness being raised to life again but they are raised and are taken up before the trumpet.  John who received the Revelation that is recorded for us was very familiar with all the people who were raised to life but yet he says at the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the thousand years this is the first resurrection.  This he said in reference to those who were beheaded and came to life to reign .  Are you sure that you want to disagree with him?  Maybe he missed inspiration at this point.  Maybe the Holy Spirit forgot to tell him about your resurrection.  How many resurrections come before the first resurrection?

The sheep and goats are at the other resurrection that is mentioned.  The rest of the dead lived not until the end of the thousand years (

On 5/26/2018 at 3:29 AM, inchrist said:

Let's not pretend that Christ will not execute and punish people in the millennium

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people

Ps 2:9; 72:9-11

2:9 You will break them with an iron scepter; you will smash them like a potter’s jar!’” 72:9 Before him the coastlands will bow down,and his enemies will lick the dust. 10 The kings of Tarshish and the coastlands will offer gifts;the kings of Sheba and Seba will bring tribute.11 All kings will bow down to him;all nations will serve him.

Isaiah 11:4

11:4 He will treat the poor fairly, and make right decisions for the downtrodden of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and order the wicked to be executed.

Zechariah 14:17

And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain

Rev 2:27

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father

 

Matthew 13 gives this account with no pretense.  40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

All the weeds are dealt with and then the righteous will shine in the kingdom of their Father.  The resurrection of the martyrs is after the tribulation has ended. I forgot you have a special dispensation to add a resurrection without consequences,  My bad.

All the thing that you quote are true but there is no context to indicate or restrict any of these to the thousand years.

On 5/26/2018 at 3:29 AM, inchrist said:

Mortal - the opposite of immortal.

One who is subject to death, the opposite of one who is immortal and not subject to death.

Rev 20:6
Over such the second death has no power, (immortal)

The people who are raise are not raised to die again.  Hebrews 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:.  They have to be prepared for eternal flames and worms that eat and never die ie. eternal punishment.

 

[inchrist]

15 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

As hard as you are trying to have a resurrection and judgement at the seventh trumpet

We have only just scratching the surface, I havnt even begun to go through the 7th trumpet rapture.

1.There's still a host of Christ parables,
2. Numerous Prophetic templates for example the battle of Jericho,
3. The Law
4. Prophetic appointed feasts
7. 7 series month trumpets
5. The doctrine of sanctification
6. Jewish Wedding, specific jacob, Leah and Rachel
7. Hebrew eschatology / Judaic eschatology

That is interesting but these things,the sheep, the goats, and the judgement, happen after the resurrection.

So this isnt the sheep?

and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,both great and small

And this isnt the goats?

and for destroying those who destroy the earth.

And the goats in the 7 bowls arnt departed from Christ?

the closest thing that is there the two witness being raised to life again but they are raised and are taken up before the trumpet

Please notice the following:

1 Corinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed

The word AT is a proximity word. It means - In the sphere of something where by it is either in, on, or near it's destination

Given the 2 witnesses are resurrected AT the 7th trumpet, AT a trumpet is inline with 1 Cor 15:52 prophecy.

John who received the Revelation that is recorded for us was very familiar with all the people who were raised to life but yet he says at the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the thousand years this is the first resurrection.  This he said in reference to those who were beheaded and came to life to reign .  Are you sure that you want to disagree with him?  Maybe he missed inspiration at this point.  Maybe the Holy Spirit forgot to tell him about your resurrection. 

John didn't miss anything but the possibility exists you yourself could of:

Please consider the following -

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. 

John saw thrones on where were seated those given authority to judge AND he saw the souls of those who were beheaded.

John saw the totality of the church not just a partial group of the church.

In line with Paul

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first

There is no hint of a partial Christain body being ressurected.

All the thing that you quote are true but there is no context to indicate or restrict any of these to the thousand years.

Let's test that and start with Zechariah 14:17  and explain how it's impossible for the context of Zechariah 14:17 to be for the millennium:

¹² This is the plague with which the Lordwill strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.¹³ On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. ¹⁴ Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. ¹⁵ A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

¹⁶ Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, theLord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. ¹⁷ If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LordAlmighty, they will have no rain. ¹⁸ If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. ¹⁹ This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles

 

The people who are raise are not raised to die again.  Hebrews 9:27  And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:.  They have to be prepared for eternal flames and worms that eat and never die ie. eternal punishment.

Eternal punishment, not eternal punishing, and you're misinterpreting Hebrews 9:27

 1 Timothy 2:4

New International Version
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

That is why it is appointed for man to die once, to be saved

That is why it is stated in Rev 20:6

The second death has no power over them, 

Only to those who are saved.

No where in the entirety of scripture, are the wicked granted immortality, eternal life or the tree of life, which is ONLY given to saints. However this has started to go off track, and one must explain how is it possible there is gnashing of teeth thrown into outside of darkeness which we have in the bowl judgments, and somehow mistrew that passages such as Matthew is for hell?

[seeking the lost]

On 5/28/2018 at 7:06 AM, inchrist said:

John didn't miss anything but the possibility exists you yourself could of:

Please consider the following -

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. 

John saw thrones on where were seated those given authority to judge AND he saw the souls of those who were beheaded.

John saw the totality of the church not just a partial group of the church.

In line with Paul

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first

There is no hint of a partial Christain body being ressurected.

The first resurrection is partial and specific.  There are many of those who are asleep in Christ that are not included in the first resurrection.  The first resurrection is a closed set resurrection.  That means only those listed are included in this resurrection and those not listed are excluded.  The list of those included are those who have been beheaded no one else is included in this resurrection (Rev. 20:4).  Additions to the text are not wise.  There is not a judgement or a separation of the sheep and the goats, the books are not opened yet.  While you may not see a hint of a partial resurrection the text is very limiting.  The rest of the dead which is those not listed in the first resurrection includes the dead in Christ are raised at the end of the thousand years.  This is when the books are opened and eternal destinies are assigned.

 

On 5/28/2018 at 7:06 AM, inchrist said:

Let's test that and start with Zechariah 14:17  and explain how it's impossible for the context of Zechariah 14:17 to be for the millennium:

¹² This is the plague with which the Lordwill strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.¹³ On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. ¹⁴ Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. ¹⁵ A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

¹⁶ Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, theLord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. ¹⁷ If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LordAlmighty, they will have no rain. ¹⁸ If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. ¹⁹ This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles

Nice test.  What part of your test includes anything that indicates that this happens in the millennium?  What part of your test excludes it from happening before the millennium?

 

On 5/28/2018 at 7:06 AM, inchrist said:

That is why it is stated in Rev 20:6

The second death has no power over them, 

This is referring to the tribulation martyrs that have been raised to reign.  The second death has no power over them.