seeking the lost Posted April 24, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 494 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 208 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 24, 2018 15 hours ago, n2thelight said: Yea that is the key word(IS)to come ,yet He's not here... You may be overlooking the is before is to come. Revelation 1: 4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. If He is not here he is a liar. His promise is that he would be with us to the end of the age. Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV) 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted April 24, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) Wrong .... Revelation 20: 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge These were already made immortal just before the coming tribulation period Edited April 24, 2018 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joulre2abba Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 463 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/08/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 22 hours ago, n2thelight said: So we have 2 last trumps?Don't think so.. Who is the restrainer? Most Jew's don't believe in Christ,so what they think,don't matter to me right now.. Christ returns only once more,other than at death,please show where people go to Heaven God bless you. I merely put the information out there, it would be counter productive to give any further information when the first wasn't received. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 12 hours ago, seeking the lost said: We who are alive and remain will be changed. Here is the verse; 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. This compliments the 1 Corinthians 15 passage. Both are informing us that the dead in Christ will rise first at His coming. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h] 55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. This resurrection is at the end of the thousand years. You may want to add a resurrection somewhere else but I have not found one. There are two resurrections written of by John, the first is of the tribulation martyrs, The second which is the rest of the dead who are raised at the end of the thousand years. Revelation 20: 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. Those who are raised in the first resurrection are raised to reign as stated. They do not go up and then come down to reign. There is no big U-Turn in the sky. Everyone else is raised at the end of the thousand years. After the resurrection comes the rapture. Still didn't show where Christ returns after the tribulation. The dead are already risen,as they return to Christ at death,ALL!! Now lets do Thess,will be commentary only to better explain what I want to say I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians. It is from these verses that the "rapture theory" was born. Let's see just how willing you are to bet your soul on it, when we take a fresh look at what Paul really said. Because that is what you are doing when you rely on it in the last days. After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives this information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid. This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial. I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer]. It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7. Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen. I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep." This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written. "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground. Paul, in another writing, told us exactly; as far as the return of Jesus Christ, when we would be gathered back to Him. That goes also for when we would see those who are asleep [dead], and that exact moment is at the sounding of the seventh [last] trumpet. It will happen very quickly, in the wink [twinkling] of an eye. I Corinthians 15:50-54 tells us we will not go away to any place, but stay right here on earth. We are going to be changed into our new Spiritual bodies, and put off these flesh bodies. Paul says, "Behold I show you a mystery". In other words, Paul is going to reveal something so we will not be ignorant about it. "We shall not all sleep [die] but we shall all be changed." I Corinthians 15:51 Changed to what? The same thing the dead are, and that is the subject. All those still in the flesh body, at a certain moment [the sounding of the seventh trumpet] will shed this flesh body [corruptible and perishable body] and take on the new "incorruptible" body. Friend, That is the hope and salvation of the Christian. To document this, in I Corinthians 15:50 we are told that "flesh and blood cannot inherit", or face Jesus Christ in His kingdom. Christ's kingdom will cover the entire earth, and that is why the flesh body must perish. The time of this change comes at the seventh trumpet, which is the last trump, and stated in verse 52, "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed". Those who are even dead spiritually will be raised in an incorruptible body. That is a body that doesn't get sick, or grow old; in other words, it is your spiritual body. Why? Because the Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom. This is your "gathering back to Christ", and that is what the rapture meaning is all about. It is the time when Christ comes back to earth and the saints that are alive are changed and drawn to Him. I Corinthians 15:53, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." "Mortal" means "liable to die" in the Greek. At the last trump the Christians who stand against Satan, and his system, will have their immortality, however, those who fall for Antichrist and his system, will have to wait until after the 1000 years. "Corruptible into incorruption" is refering to the flesh body changing into the body such as the angels have, a spiritual body. Whereas the eternal condition of the soul is only extended to those who have not yielded to the Antichrist, For they only are the victors at the seventh trump. You put on immortality through Christ who set the way. I Corinthians 15:54, "So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." Going back to I Thessalonians 4:15, we know when this will come to pass. It will be "at the last trump", when the alive in Christ are "changed", not flying away. I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;" The Lord is going to descend, at the seventh trump [the last trump]. Why will the dead in Christ rise first? Because they are already there, and with Him. All we have to do now is go to the book of Revelation, and find out in detail when this will be. We find out what events will occur just prior to this seventh trump sounding, and then when we see these certain events taking place before our eyes, we will know our Lord will return to earth next. Then the trump will sound, and the gathering will take place, and we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our spiritual bodies. And not one day before. Many people have images of massive numbers of people flying away, with all sorts of accidents taking place; however, the Bible doesn't tell us it will be in that manner. In Revelation 11, it tells us exactly three and a half days prior what will happen, and the whole world will know about it, for it is no hidden mystery. That is when the Antichrist will end his reign by killing God's two witnesses, and send the world into a three and a half day party of celebration. In Revelation 11 the world will know the two witnesses, for the disruption they have caused, and the world will watch as they are killed, and their dead bodies are put on display in a wide street [arena]. Are you still looking for a rapture, well my friend, at the end of the three and half day period it will be a time of great shame for you, For as Revelation 9:4 points out, the truth will not be sealed in your mind, and God is going to turn you over to Antichrist. The "rapture theory", could be the death warrant of your very soul, or a commitment of your soul to great shame. If you believe in the "Rapture theory" you will be on the side of Antichrist, and will fly with anyone, because you just don't understand the Word of God. Remember, Two bodies will be in the streets of Jerusalem for three days, causing a world wide massive party...that is your warning just before Jesus Christ return to this earth. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Revelation 11:9; "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves." They simple do not want these bodies to come alive, or claim life when they in fact are dead. The world is witness to the corps of the two bodies. And they will think of all the damage these two prophets did to their crops and property; and most of all, the insults the witnesses gave this first Christ {Antichrist}, whom they all believed to be Jesus. Antichrist did as their rapture theory promised it would do. They got their wing's all right, straight to Satan's camp. Revelation 11:10; "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." The torment the two gave the world was naming the Antichrist, Satan. This was unthinkable, for their traditions taught them otherwise. Revelation 11:11; "And after three and an half [days] the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." Did you catch the time frame here? It's three and a half days following the death of two witnesses that the world will rejoice over their death. When the whole world celebrates, you better be getting ready to meet your maker. Friend, the only flying out of here is by the two witnesses, and it is recorded here. God's elect will be changed here at this time. Revelation 11:12; "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them [two witnesses], Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." There is no secret to this rapture, of two, for who are their enemies? Those who were against God's two witnesses. Revelation 11:13; "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." This is Satan, and his fallen angels [that locust army of Revelation 9] that were caste out with him. The remnent who gave God the glory, are God's elect, and those who are sealed of God, including the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel. Those are the ones chosen to stand against the Antichrist, and only them. The traditions of men will be preached right up to the seventh trump. What happens then at the seventh trump? Well, that is what First Thessalonians 4 is all about. "The gathering back to Christ at the seventh trumpet". Revelation 11:14-15; "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."[verse 14] "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The Kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." [verse 15] THIS IS THE SEVENTH TRUMP. You, as a Christian now know exactly what is to transpire for three and a half days prior to the sounding of the seventh trump. You will see the murder of the two witnesses, observe the massive celebration, and then be changed to another form before Christ returns to this earth. It's all in God's holy plan, and Paul, John, Peter, Mark, Luke as well as Jesus certainly do not want you ignorant of these facts. There is no FLY AWAY, no dodging of the tribulation of the Antichrist and his system's deceptions, but Christ will come and establish His kingdom on earth, and you will see it in your spiritual body. Got it? Now what about the clouds, and the air? The "clouds" are in reference to a large gathering of people, as Paul used else where also. While the "air" spoken of here, in the Greek is "breath of life"; we will meet Jesus Christ in our "breath of life bodies, or spiritual bodies". That is the mystery Paul spoke of in I Corinthians 15:50-54. https://www.theseason.org/1thess/1thess4.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, seeking the lost said: You may be overlooking the is before is to come. Revelation 1: 4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. If He is not here he is a liar. His promise is that he would be with us to the end of the age. Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV) 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Where is Christ,RIGHT NOW? If He's here why does He need to come? Why are we looking forward to that coming,why are you looking forward to this rapture,if He's already here? I'm not understanding......... Edited April 25, 2018 by n2thelight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, n2thelight said: This resurrection is at the end of the thousand years. You may want to add a resurrection somewhere else but I have not found one. There are two resurrections written of by John, the first is of the tribulation martyrs, The second which is the rest of the dead who are raised at the end of the thousand years. Now let's do the dead and the resurrection Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results Result of search for "resurrection": 386. anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again. 1454. egersis eg'-er-sis from 1453; a resurgence (from death):--resurrection. 1815. exanastasis ex-an-as'-tas-is from 1817; a rising from death:--resurrection. The best way to explain it,is to understand who the dead are,just because we are changed does not mean we are immortal,as the soul can still die Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Notice there are two sets of books here. The first called "The Books" is to judge the unsaved. The second is the "Book of Life" where only the names of the saved are recorded. The saved have had their sins removed from God's judgment and booted out. Though they were committed, the blood of Christ has covered them from being used against us. Notice how all souls are judged "according to their works". Does it talk about faith here after the Millennium? No. The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration. The first resurrection takes faith into consideration. That was back on "the Lord's day". That was Jesus Christ's "great day". On the last day of the Millennium age, souls are judged by works only. Why are you judged for works only? Faith is something hoped for but unseen. You don't see Jesus Christ on earth today, you will see his wonderful works, and be led by Him and His Spirit in the Millennium age. Today He is in heaven and not walking on this earth. However, in the millennium, He will be on earth, and all will have full intelligence, with full recall and will be taught. The Heavenly Father honors all those with grace, that have accepted His Son by faith through repentance without Christ's physical presence here on earth, if you believed in His Word. To those who are not under grace in the Millennium, their salvation will be only through and by their works. For faith doesn't exist to them. There will be no ignorance, physical handicap, for you will see, know, and experience Our Lord first hand. If you follow the Antichrist, the first Christ to appear, you will have forfeited your salvation in this earth age. You will not be under the grace of God, and your works will be the only thing that matters on the last day of the Millennium, the day of judgment. They will be judged by works alone, for they have seen Jesus Christ, and are without excuse. The "rapture theory" leaves believers defenseless against Satan, for they will be taken in by Satan's deceptions. https://www.theseason.org/revelation/revelation20.htm The tribulation is all about deception,which is why that was Christ number 1 warning Matthew 24:4 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you." This is the number one warning, "Take heed that no man deceive you." Deception will be the foremost thing to guard against in the latter days, that will consummate the end of this age. This means that these events will not happen all at one time, but will take place over a period of time. These warnings or signs that Jesus is about to give us, are the seven seals that are given us in the Book of Revelation. These are an exact overlay of the seven events, which are the seven seals that we should be watching for today. At the end of Matthew we will include the thirteenth chapter of Mark, which is an overlay of Matthew twenty four. These events will be spelled out before we are finish, but again, Don't let anyone deceive you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 494 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 208 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 6 hours ago, n2thelight said: Where is Christ,RIGHT NOW? If He's here why does He need to come? Why are we looking forward to that coming,why are you looking forward to this rapture,if He's already here? I'm not understanding......... The focus of this forum is about the seventh trumpet Vs. the last trumpet. The events of the seventh trumpet do not match the events of the last trumpet. The timing of the seventh trumpet is before the seven bowls have been poured out and prior to the resurrection of the martyrs. The martyrs are raise to reign at the beginning of the thousand years. The last trumpet is connected with the last day resurrection. The time separating the seventh trumpet and the last trumpet is at least a thousand years. 1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. The time of this resurrection is at the end of the thousand years. The events that accompany the last trumpet on the last day are recorded in Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. You ask where is Christ right now. The answer is everywhere. Ephesians 1: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. He fills all and is in all. I look forward to this rapture and the fulfillment of the Word of the Lord because it is our hope and comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,626 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 4/25/2018 at 8:20 AM, seeking the lost said: The focus of this forum is about the seventh trumpet Vs. the last trumpet. The events of the seventh trumpet do not match the events of the last trumpet. The timing of the seventh trumpet is before the seven bowls have been poured out and prior to the resurrection of the martyrs. The martyrs are raise to reign at the beginning of the thousand years. The last trumpet is connected with the last day resurrection. The time separating the seventh trumpet and the last trumpet is at least a thousand years. 1 Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. The time of this resurrection is at the end of the thousand years. The events that accompany the last trumpet on the last day are recorded in Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. You ask where is Christ right now. The answer is everywhere. Ephesians 1: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. He fills all and is in all. I look forward to this rapture and the fulfillment of the Word of the Lord because it is our hope and comfort. Good Morning, This is intriguing. I have heard many times there is a difference between the last trump and the 7th trump. That could be true, but I have never been sure how this is derived from scripture. So I have some questions about how we get there: "The events of the seventh trumpet do not match the events of the last trumpet." This is always my go to part of the process. If described events match it's the same event, if not then it's something else. Could you show some scripture? "The timing of the seventh trumpet is before the seven bowls have been poured out and prior to the resurrection of the martyrs." Great. How did we get here? Are there scriptures that show timing in this case? You know, with words like, "after this" or "then"? "The last trumpet is connected with the last day resurrection." Okay. But I have not seen scripture that says there is a trumpet connected to this day. You seem to be saying the last trump signals the 2nd resurrection. Yes? No? In citing 1 Cor 15:51-53 to prove the last trump is at the end of the 1000 years, the timing is still missing, innit? I mean, I see the last trump, the resurrection of the dead, but no timing is given here. A point: We are all dead aren't we? We are all perishable, mortal, corrupt, alive or physically dead we are all the same. I think what Paul is saying here applies to any living person, no mortal, corrupt, perishable person can inherit the Kingdom. I don't think Paul is speaking of just the physically dead. In Rev 20 I see many stunning and profound images, but no last trumpet. I'm not saying there are not trumpets, but I don't read about a last trump in this chapter. Can you cite any scripture connecting the last trump with the 2nd resurrection at the end of the 1000 years? Thank you and God Bless! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 4, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2018 The last trumpet is in Matthew 24:31 .... this gathering is of mortal Israel since Matthew 24 is about Israel These mortals will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom as mortals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted May 4, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,248 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 671 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 4/25/2018 at 7:20 AM, seeking the lost said: The focus of this forum is about the seventh trumpet Vs. the last trumpet. The events of the seventh trumpet do not match the events of the last trumpet. The timing of the seventh trumpet is before the seven bowls have been poured out and prior to the resurrection of the martyrs. The 'last trumpet' is not the last trumpet of Revelation's trumpets. The trumpet in 1Thes 4:16 is blown by God.........The last of the 7 trumpets in Rev 10:7 is blown by an angel. So then here is an explanation of the last trumpet that the apostle Paul refers to:....and it makes sense The phrase used by Jesus in Matt. 24:36 is peculiar. The “day and hour that no one knows” was a Jewish idiom in Jesus’s day. It was a “code” word for the Jewish Holiday, Yom Teruah (which today is referred to as Rosh Hashan. The date of Yom Teruah is Tishri 1 on the Jewish lunar calendar. This date is known as the “Hidden Day” (Yom Hakeseh) or the “day and hour that no man knows.” Yom Teruah falls on the first of the month, and the first day of each Jewish month is determined by the sighting of a New Moon. Because this is also the first day of the New Year and a MO’EDIM (Yom Teruah), this sighting is of particular importance. In biblical times, two witnesses were assigned this task by the Sanhedrin. This sighting (by the two witnesses) can take place on either of two possible days and at any hour of the night. Thus the date is known: Tishri 1, but the day and hour of this sighting is unknown. After the sighting of the new moon, the High Priest ordered the blowing of trumpets. This is of incredible importance in understanding Jesus’s phrase in Matt. 24:36. All of the inhabitants of Jerusalem could look up at the waning moon and observe the moment the last sliver became dark, but that was not Yom Teruah. The MO’EDIM did not begin until the High Priest and the Sanhedrin announced it was Yom Teruah. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus prophesied many detailed aspects of the time prior to his return. He is God after all. Yet, western commentators would have us believe God the Son doesn’t know the day of his own return. Rather, what Jesus’s statement about “only the Father” knowing may have meant: “it isn’t the Yom Teruah (of the Rapture) until God the Father announces it’s Yom Teruah.” Only the Father knows; only the Father announces it. This parallels the system used in ancient Israel where the High Priest announced the MO’EDIM and ordered the blowing of trumpets. God the Father will announce the blowing of the Last Trumpet. The Greek word translated “knows” in Matt. 24:36 is EIDO which primarily means “to see, to perceive or to know because you perceive.” Translated that way, the verse would read: But of that day and hour no one SEES, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. (Matt. 24:36) Yom Teruah is known as the Feast of the Blowing of Trumpets, including the Last Trumpet (TEKIAH GADOLAH [1 Cor. 15:52]). In Jewish thought, there were three trumpet blasts on MO’EDIM. The First Trumpet was blown on Pentecost or Shavuot and the Last Trumpet was blown on Yom Teruah. The Final or Great Trumpet was blown on Yom Kippur of Jubilee years to announce the Jubilee. So when Paul referred to the Last Trumpet in 1 Cor. 15:52, this was a specific reference to Yom Teruah. Pay attention to this line from the article above......."This sighting (by the two witnesses) can take place on either of two possible days and at any hour of the night. Thus the date is known: Tishri 1, but the day and hour of this sighting is unknown". It's quite possible that the celestial disturbance of Rev 6:12 could block out the sighting of the new moon so that only God the Father can see it. Makes logical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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