Overwhelming evidence of life on earth before Adam

[Quasar93]

6 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

I'm not going to address your unnecessarily long post, Quasar.  Except for the above.  There may have been civilizations before Adam, I don't dispute that nor do I dispute science.  But, since the Bible only addresses the world from Genesis forward, the rest is not relevant to our faith.  And, btw, there is absolutely NO reason to quote yourself and post that long, long, long post a second time. Brevity will get people to read what you post; posting a million word diatribe will not.

 

 

Hello MorningGlory,

Thanks for your input.  That you believe my above post is too long puzzles me.  Since by your own statement, you did not read it.  The subject does not pertain to the theme of our Bible, and is only an issue of many not covered in the Bible, of interest to some of us who seek answers to them.  May I ask you why you even bother to participate in this issue, unless you disagree with what is being revealed about it?

And may God Bless you.

 

Quasar93 

[other one]

9 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

 

Hello MorningGlory,

Thanks for your input.  That you believe my above post is too long puzzles me.  Since by your own statement, you did not read it.  The subject does not pertain to the theme of our Bible, and is only an issue of many not covered in the Bible, of interest to some of us who seek answers to them.  May I ask you why you even bother to participate in this issue, unless you disagree with what is being revealed about it?

And may God Bless you.

 

Quasar93 

I think you are going to find that problem in most places and most subjects.....  People tend not to want to spend the time to understand  complex things that take time to gather all the information to understand one's stand on things.   It's not that people are not intelligent enough to understand, but they just won't take the time to get all the information to do so.

[Quasar93]

39 minutes ago, other one said:

I think you are going to find that problem in most places and most subjects.....  People tend not to want to spend the time to understand  complex things that take time to gather all the information to understand one's stand on things.   It's not that people are not intelligent enough to understand, but they just won't take the time to get all the information to do so.

 

39 minutes ago, other one said:

I think you are going to find that problem in most places and most subjects.....  People tend not to want to spend the time to understand  complex things that take time to gather all the information to understand one's stand on things.   It's not that people are not intelligent enough to understand, but they just won't take the time to get all the information to do so.

 

 

Greetings Other One,

Thanks for your input.  Having spent the better part of 20 years on Christian discussion forum sites, I find your views to be prettu much the same with any subject selected, with minor exception.

 

God Bless!

 

Quasar93

[enoob57]

The rebellion 'In the beginning' is not really the beginning but there is other...
Just the same as found here

Gen 3:3-4

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
KJV
we see how that info came out!

[MorningGlory]

13 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

 

Hello MorningGlory,

Thanks for your input.  That you believe my above post is too long puzzles me.  Since by your own statement, you did not read it.  The subject does not pertain to the theme of our Bible, and is only an issue of many not covered in the Bible, of interest to some of us who seek answers to them.  May I ask you why you even bother to participate in this issue, unless you disagree with what is being revealed about it?

And may God Bless you.

 

Quasar93 

My participation is prompted by my need to state my beliefs , which are stated above, and to point out that your post was way too long.  No one reads those.  You will find that out for yourself though.  If you make a point, people will discuss it.  Make a thousand in one post and they will scroll past them.  Just reality,Quasar.

[MorningGlory]

17 hours ago, hmbld said:

But the Bible is clear there were no civilizations before Adam. 

I disagree, hmbld.  The Bible doesn't tell us there was no one before Adam.  Only that Adam was the first of OUR kind. 

[MorningGlory]

19 hours ago, Tristen said:

Do you mean my provided arguments are Ipse Dixit, or I challenge the provided arguments as Ipse Dixit fallacy? If the latter, I think you may be confusing me with Enoch. Nevertheless, if the fallacy fits . . . . .

No confusion.  My perception is quite clear.

[Still Alive]

On 3/18/2018 at 10:15 AM, Quasar93 said:

Overwhelming Evidence

All the geological and paleontological evidence PROVES beyond the slightest scintilla of a doubt that THERE WAS A WORLD BEFORE ADAM. Most of the dating techniques of scientists -- uranium-argon, potassium-thorium, racemization and thermaluminescence -- as well as observation and logic conclusively show that the rocks under our feet, the bones of ancient animals, and even the charcoal campfires of Paleo-Indians, Neanderthal man, and other ancient hominid remains, are MUCH OLDER than 6,000 years. There was a world before Adam. In fact, there were MANY ages before Adam, and these ages can be carefully distinguished through the study of paleontology, paleo-ecology, and related scientific disciplines.

The evidence is INDISPUTABLE. Many independent dating techniques demonstrate that various hominid creatures lived about 500,000 years ago. More primitive types lived as long ago as 1-2,000,000 years. Those creatures, in some cases, were FAMILIAR with fire, used crude chipped stone tools such as hand axes, notched and saw-toothed implements, scrapers, engravers. They were PRE-ADAMIC CREATURES living in a PRE-ADAMIC WORLD. A world which ended in a great catastrophe.

And before their time, OTHER worlds existed. The world of the dinosaurs ended about 70,000,000 years ago. That world, too, ended in a cosmic catastrophe.

The pre-Adamic world was a world of growth, change, and progress. It was a world where new life forms were introduced from time to time.

The fact that this world has been in existence for many millions of years is no longer a matter for debate. It is academic. Any serious author, today, must face squarely the many indications of time found in the geological record.

Neo-Creationists believe we must choose either the Bible or science, particularly scientific dating methods. One typical Neo-Creationist argues:

"The Bible-believing scientist must face squarely the question, In the area of natural science which shall supersede, the clear assertions of God's inspired Book, or modern man's interpretation of what he thinks he sees in nature?"

This particular author continues: "According to Bible chronology only a few thousand years have passed since the creation of the ancestors of our modern plants and animals...Contrariwise, if one accepts the assumption that the inorganic radioisotope clocks were reset wherever they became associated with fossil-bearing material, then apparently at least 600 million years have passed since plants and animals first appeared successively from that time over a duration of some 600 million years" (Frank Lewis Marsh, Life, Man and Time, pp. 67-68).

The truth is, there is NO CONTRADICTION between the Biblical record and scientific knowledge of the earth's past. Those who wish to uphold the Bible in the face of new evidence regarding early hominids, homo erectus, homo habilis, or other discoveries of Primitive Man-like creatures, need not worry. There is NO EVIDENCE that such creatures evolved into Modern man. Rather, they lived long ago in a world BEFORE ADAM WAS CREATED -- another world -- another age -- another time.

Such discoveries tell us much about the ancient history of the earth. They tell us nothing, one way or the other, about the Scriptures.

Creation and Recreation

In the pages of Genesis, as it relates to the original creation of the universe, we read the simple, matter-of-fact statement: "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1, King James Version). The Amplified Bible renders this verse: "In the beginning God (prepared, formed, fashioned,) and created the heavens and the earth." The Good News Bible states: "In the beginning, when God created the universe..." The Moffatt Translation: "When God began to form the universe..." The Goodspeed Translation: "When God began to create the heavens and the earth..."

What exactly does the book of Genesis tell us? That YEHOVAH God created the universe -- the heavens and the earth -- in a period of time called, simply, "the beginning." How long ago that primeval creation occurred we are not told anywhere in the Scripture. To determine that, YEHOVAH God has given us brains and intellect!

That time of beginning could well have been six to ten billion years ago. Astronomers calculate that a "Big Bang" took place at that time, out of which the entire cosmos was created.

Verse two of Genesis, chapter one, continues:

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (King James Version).

Is this verse describing the ORIGINAL creation as being formless and void? If so, it would seem a contradiction. Verse one tells us YEHOVAH created the heavens and the earth. When YEHOVAH creates something, it is beautiful, grand, and majestic. In the 38th chapter of the book of Job, we read:

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof? When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (vs. 4-7).

If the original earth had been created a chaotic ruin, formless and void, the angels would not have "sang together" or have "shouted for joy."

Isaiah 45:18 adds more light on this enigmatic passage. The prophet declares: "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else" (King James Version).

The Hebrew word translated "vain" here is tohu and means "to lie waste," "a desolation," "a desert." It can also be translated "confusion," "empty place," "without form," "nothing," "wilderness." It is the very same word used in Genesis 1:2, where we read the earth "was without form."

One place says YEHOVAH God created the earth and it "was without form"; in another place we read YEHOVAH did not create the earth "without form." Is this a contradiction? Not at all!

The KEY to understanding this apparently complex problem lies in the little word "was." It can also be translated "BECAME." In fact, in Genesis 19:16 it is translated "became." We read: "And Lot's wife became a pillar of salt."

What happened, then, is this: When YEHOVAH God originally created the earth, it was indeed a lovely place. He created it with no waste, no wilderness, no desolation. It was inhabited. The angels leaped for joy, and shouted with admiration and enthusiasm when they beheld the primeval earth.

But then something happened. It became "tohu" -- that is, waste, a ruin, a desolation. The original earth suffered a great cataclysm -- a cosmic catastrophe. The Hebrew words translated "without form and void" in Genesis 1:2 literally mean a desolation, a wilderness, an empty, uninhabited ruin. These words, tohu and bohu are very strong words and denote CATASTROPHE. They strongly suggest that some sort of primeval cataclysm, or several such cataclysms, occurred.

Destruction!

Paroxysm!

Chaos!

Scripture gives no data for determining HOW LONG AGO the universe was created. And in the first chapter of Genesis, it only records THREE creative acts: 1) the heavens and the earth (verse 1); 2) new animal life (verses 20-21); and 3) human life, Adam and Eve (verses 26-27). The first creative act referred to the DATELESS PAST. The creation of NEW forms of animal life, and Adam and Eve, occurred approximately 6,000 YEARS AGO. Obviously, then, the first chapter of Genesis is not describing the original creation of the heavens and earth as occurring in seven consecutive days.

After the chaos and destruction which occurred, in verse two of Genesis one, YEHOVAH God began a process of re-creation, reconstruction, if you please, which lasted for seven days. Verse 16 of Genesis one does NOT describe the sun and moon and stars being created on the fourth day. How could light have been created on the first day, but the sun and stars which IMPART LIGHT not till the fourth day? The original Hebrew for "made" in verse 16 actually means "made to appear, made visible." The sun and moon were created "in the beginning." The light came from the sun, of course, but the VAPOR in the earth's atmosphere diffused the light. After the great cataclysm, the earth was cut off from the light of the sun, moon and stars. Darkness prevailed everywhere. As verse two says: "And the earth was (BECAME) without form and void (TOHU and BOHU); and DARKNESS was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

What do we see then? An earth destroyed, in pitch darkness, covered by water, the continents submerged, due to some great cataclysm.

During the process of RECONSTRUCTION or RE-CREATION, YEHOVAH God first caused the light from the sun to penetrate the atmosphere once again, in a DIFFUSED manner (Genesis 1:3-5), allowing day and night to become discernible. He created order in the atmosphere (verses 6-8). He caused the dry land to appear once again (verse 10). He caused the earth to once again bring forth life, plants, vegetation, of all kinds. As the turgid clouds and atmospheric disturbances cleared away, He caused the sun, moon and stars to once again become visible from the earth's surface (verses 14-18).

Then, having REFASHIONED the surface of the earth, and having prepared it, YEHOVAH created NEW living creatures -- NEW animal life of all kinds, from great whales to small fish, from elephants to rodents, from flying birds to flying fish and insects -- to REPOPULATE the earth, and to REPLENISH it (verses 20-25).

Something had happened to the Pre-Adamic earth. It had been overwhelmed in a MIGHTY CATASTROPHE, or a long series of catastrophes, which is briefly described in verse 2 of Genesis chapter 1.

But what happened?

The world before Adam came to an ABRUPT, screeching end. It was cut short by flooding and upheaval, stroke upon stroke of catastrophe. This one short enigmatic, much misunderstood verse of the Bible, contains within its cryptic message a story that will amaze you. This one little verse may hold a CLUE as to what happened to the earth, after the original time when it was created, beautiful, and to be "inhabited," and before the time of Adam and Eve, when it had to be refashioned, reshaped, refurbished, and rebuilt.

This one verse, in essence, may cover a time span of MILLIONS of years. If YEHOVAH God originally created the earth six to ten billion years ago, and over millions of years created VARIOUS and sundry life forms, causing them to become buried in massive burials to form deposits of coal, peat, and oil and natural gas; if He spent millions of years preparing the world for the eventual time when He would create Man IN HIS OWN IMAGE [not some amorphous BLOB]; who are we to complain?

Vast Periods of Time?

Vast periods of time, and many successive ecological niches, had to exist in the earth, for algal reefs of hundreds of feet to grow in place. Much time was required for vast quantities of vegetation to live, grow, and die, and to become entombed, to create vast deposits of coal in Kansas, Oklahoma, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

This vast period of time YEHOVAH put to good use.

As Robert Macdonald shows, in a paper entitled Geology:

"The fossil record contains hundreds of zones, each with its own particular faunal assemblage. What is the chance that such an invariant worldwide sequence of life forms could be built up if they all lived CONTEMPORANEOUSLY, and the sequence in which they are found were only a burial order? How could a burial order based not on water sorting, but on environments do the job?...

"Suppose that in a worldwide catastrophe, one group of organisms were brought in from one area and deposited, then another assemblage from another area were deposited on top of that, and so on. A local sequence of life forms would be built up. But the chances would be against the deposition of fossils in the same order in a local sequence in another area. Consider the chance that the same order would occur in all sequences worldwide. It would be NIL!

"There is NO WAY to account for the sequence in faunal succession by ONE catastrophe. Nor is there any way to account for this sequence by a SERIES of catastrophes, or by a LONG DRAWN-OUT catastrophe. If all these Paleozoic and Mesozoic organisms were contemporaneous, there would inevitably have been some mixing of early and late forms.

"The ONLY explanation is that each geologic horizon does indeed represent a DIFFERENT time in the past during which a unique assemblage of life forms was living and being deposited in many parts of the world. Slow or incremental deposition is therefore essential to give time for worldwide changes in populations of fauna whose remains preserved as fossils vary from one stratum to another."

During the geologic ages of the earth's past, life went on in a normal fashion for millions of years. Fossil reefs obviously grew in the place in which they are found. Standing trees, with their roots in place, tracks and trails both on land and on the sea bottoms, layer upon layer containing burrows and borings made by animals just as they do in the sea-bottoms today, all show that most of the geologic column was created OVER MILLIONS OF YEARS, not in the Flood of Noah's time, or some other isolated catastrophe.

Although the record in the earth's strata clearly shows that great catastrophes did take place, in the earth's past, the record also shows that there were periods of millions of years in which no violent cataclysms occurred. During these calm, relatively nonviolent periods, great CREATIVE PROCESSES were going on. Cyclothems of coal were formed. As Macdonald points out, coal is commonly found in a sequence of beds called a cyclothem -- a cycle of beds repeated over and over again, perhaps dozens of times. Much time would be needed for such deposits to be made, one on top of another.

For the rest of this article, go to: http://hope-of-israel.org/lifeadam.htm

Originally edited by: John D. Keyser.


Hope of Israel Ministries -- Preparing the Way for the Return of YEHOVAH God and His Messiah!

This material is from:  Hope of Israel Ministries
                                P.O. Box 2186
                                Temple City, CA 91780, U.S.A.
                                www.hope-of-israel.org


See also:  http://www.kjvbible.org/satan.html



Quasar93

I don't think the bible says there wasn't a world of life before Adam. I think people just infer that. And reality does not support that inference.

[Still Alive]

I wonder if the six days of creation were six consecutive days, or if they were years, or millions of years, apart.

Just wondering...

[Kevinb]

On 19/03/2018 at 10:33 PM, hmbld said:

On 19/03/2018 at 8:39 PM, MorningGlory said:

I'm not going to address your unnecessarily long post, Quasar.  Except for the above.  There may have been civilizations before Adam, I don't dispute that nor do I dispute science.  But, since the Bible only addresses the world from Genesis forward, the rest is not relevant to our faith.  And, btw, there is absolutely NO reason to quote yourself and post that long, long, long post a second time. Brevity will get people to read what you post; posting a million word diatribe will not.

But the Bible is clear there were no civilizations before Adam. 

 Okay and indeed the bible may indicate this hmbld. So how do you prove the bible claim? Or are you happy to go with the bible claims are true coz they're in the bible? Kinda circular don't you think.  The quran claims are true coz they're in the quran. This applies to all religious texts surely. What needs to be demonstrated is any theistic claims are true in reality. In this case Adam... so what's the evidence for Adam to corroborate the bible claim?