Still Alive Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/19/2018 at 6:33 PM, hmbld said: But the Bible is clear there were no civilizations before Adam. You'll have to show me chapter and verse on that one. I'm not seeing it. I confess that I used to, but I discovered I was inferring stuff that was not explicitly there. It's kinda like when the bible talks about a new heaven and new earth after the earth is destroyed in the end times. It doesn't say the earth will be destroyed as we would think of the planet being obliterated. Rather, more like the surface is wiped clean (with fire), ready to make way for the next iteration (age). It may explain why it says there will be no sea. Genesis is actually quite vague in how it describes creation, and I think intentionally so. I'm not even sure the six days are consecutive days. I just "assume" they are. At least, I used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,365 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, Still Alive said: You'll have to show me chapter and verse on that one. I'm not seeing it. I confess that I used to, but I discovered I was inferring stuff that was not explicitly there. It's kinda like when the bible talks about a new heaven and new earth after the earth is destroyed in the end times. It doesn't say the earth will be destroyed as we would think of the planet being obliterated. Rather, more like the surface is wiped clean (with fire), ready to make way for the next iteration (age). It may explain why it says there will be no sea. Genesis is actually quite vague in how it describes creation, and I think intentionally so. I'm not even sure the six days are consecutive days. I just "assume" they are. At least, I used to. Gen 2:1-4 2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, KJV These verses include angels because the simple fact of God's statement "all the host of them."(being that which exists in heaven and earth) Plus "all his work which he had made." Angels are created beings and are only mentioned in place of being heaven or earth... any other is rebuked by God's Word here 2 Cor 10:5 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; KJV Because where your coming from did not come from the beginning as God has given us... you see it 'IS' God's Word and to depart from it the least little bit and you have what started all this mess in the beginning... Your belief has God sanctifying sin and that is blasphemous heresy from him who thinks the created thing can be god... as far as your thoughts of new heaven and earth being renovated... The Scriptures says 1 Peter 1:7 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: KJV Rev 21:1 21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. KJV your saying it doesn't perish or pass away just renovated ... I'll remain with what God has said 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, enoob57 said: as far as your thoughts of new heaven and earth being renovated... The Scriptures says 1 Peter 1:7 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: KJV Rev 21:1 21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. KJV your saying it doesn't perish or pass away just renovated ... I'll remain with what God has said Yes. What changed my mind was I got my hands on a greek lexicon and was exposed to multiple translations. It became pretty clear that, though earth could mean the whole earth, it could also mean the surface of the earth. In essence, it means the place where we live. Same with the heaven, which in this case I reasonably assume means the sky between the surface of the earth and outer space. http://biblehub.com/lexicon/revelation/21-1.htm I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong. I'm saying it's not as clear as it first appears to be. And once one realizes there are multiple ways it can be interpreted, one is left to interpret through the lens of what the rest of the bible says on the issue - and what physical evidence exists in the world in which we live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,365 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Still Alive said: Yes. What changed my mind was I got my hands on a greek lexicon and was exposed to multiple translations. It became pretty clear that, though earth could mean the whole earth, it could also mean the surface of the earth. In essence, it means the place where we live. Same with the heaven, which in this case I reasonably assume means the sky between the surface of the earth and outer space. http://biblehub.com/lexicon/revelation/21-1.htm I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong. I'm saying it's not as clear as it first appears to be. And once one realizes there are multiple ways it can be interpreted, one is left to interpret through the lens of what the rest of the bible says on the issue - and what physical evidence exists in the world in which we live. I think your missing my understanding a little God's sanctifying of His Work included heavens plural ( as the Jewish mind thought of: heaven 1 where birds fly, heavan 2 stars and moon, heaven 3 God's Throneroom) and earth... this being the total access of all that has been created. This is what the Word states Gen 1:31-2:4 31 ~w~Y+ar $ýa!yh> #Áta*ÁlK&a#rv *u*hc +w!h{bofÁhN =m(da ~w+y!Áyh#u\br ~w+y!Áyh(b#rq oy> ^h!V!yV. 2 ~w+y%WLk ^h*V^m[y> +w*h*a\Jr +w*Álk=x*b*a>. 2 ~w+y^lk $ýa!yh> ^oYB> ^h=V!yb!yu =m^al=oTk &a#rv *u*hc ~w[Y=v(tB ^oYB> ^h=V!yb!yu !m*ÁlK=m^al=oTk &a#rv *u*hc. 3 ~w+y*b\Er $ýa!yh> #oyÁta> ^h=V!yb!yu ~w+y^q{vD (ota !yK ob *v^tb !m*ÁlK=m^al=oTk &a#Árv*B`ar $ýa!yh> ^l&tocu. 4 @a#hL ot=todl ^h*V^m[y> +w*h*a\Jr =B!h*B+r*a> =oyB> &tocu +hy`hw $ýa!yh> #a\Jr +w*v*m[y> KJV - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s). OT:8064 <y!m^v* shamayim (shaw-mah'-yim); dual of an unused singular shameh (shaw-meh'); from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): KJV - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s). <y!m^v (Noun) Parsing: ncmpa Noun Common Noun Masculine Plural Absolute State Quote one is left to interpret through the lens of what the rest of the bible says on the issue We know the angels were created before day 4 because they were present when: Job 38:7 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? KJV we also know by this verse on and pertaining to <y!m^v Jewish mind of third heaven of heavens 1 Kings 8:27 27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded? KJV we also know by this verse angels are present there Job 1:6 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. KJV Putting it all together we are certain that Gen 1 and 2 are speaking of all places where his created dwell and God sanctified this and called it all good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2018 31 minutes ago, enoob57 said: I think your missing my understanding a little God's sanctifying of His Work included heavens plural ( as the Jewish mind thought of: heaven 1 where birds fly, heavan 2 stars and moon, heaven 3 God's Throneroom) and earth... this being the total access of all that has been created. This is what the Word states We're actually completely in agreement on that. I have a feeling we agree a lot more than we disagree, and we might disagree on less than i thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,365 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Well then you can't have life before Adam or else you have God sanctifying death the result of sin... which only came into being when we followed satan instead of God... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Well then you can't have life before Adam or else you have God sanctifying death the result of sin... which only came into being when we followed satan instead of God... This assumes the rules were the same before Adam. Just as he says he cut people slack at one time but no more, just as His word says "before the rooster crows twice" in one gospel, but only once in the others, we must take the word for what it is within the entire context of the bible. In my case, I also put a LOT of emphasis on the concept of the "age", and each age has different rules. We are in the "Church" age now. Before that, was the age of the old covenant. Before that, well, we don't know. The bible doesn't seem to offer a lot of info, so we are left to speculate. I just go by what we actually see in existence on our planet on which the bible is silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.12 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Well then you can't have life before Adam or else you have God sanctifying death the result of sin... which only came into being when we followed satan instead of God... I believe if there WAS life before Adam, that it was hominid life, not Homo Sapiens Sapiens which is our species. Wee know for sure that Neanderthals existed before us and probably coexisted for a short while. They were humanlike but were a separate species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,013 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,365 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Still Alive said: This assumes the rules were the same before Adam. Just as he says he cut people slack at one time but no more, just as His word says "before the rooster crows twice" in one gospel, but only once in the others, we must take the word for what it is within the entire context of the bible. In my case, I also put a LOT of emphasis on the concept of the "age", and each age has different rules. We are in the "Church" age now. Before that, was the age of the old covenant. Before that, well, we don't know. The bible doesn't seem to offer a lot of info, so we are left to speculate. I just go by what we actually see in existence on our planet on which the bible is silent. It is not the Spirit of God that goes outside of The Word of God for support... we are to test the spirits to see whether or not they are The Holy Spirit John 14:26 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. KJV note Jesus is speaking of Scripture 2 Tim 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV as you can see The Spirit gives witness to the sufficiency of Scripture... the spirit speaking to you is not the same spirit... I would rebuke those thoughts and imaginations and return to The Word it is the only foundation we have for truth! I promise you this when we get home (with Jesus) we will find the perfection in His Word by the living testimony of the writer and God Himself revealed in an eternal awestruck of worship ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted March 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, enoob57 said: It is not the Spirit of God that goes outside of The Word of God for support... we are to test the spirits to see whether or not they are The Holy Spirit John 14:26 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. KJV note Jesus is speaking of Scripture 2 Tim 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV as you can see The Spirit gives witness to the sufficiency of Scripture... the spirit speaking to you is not the same spirit... I would rebuke those thoughts and imaginations and return to The Word it is the only foundation we have for truth! I promise you this when we get home (with Jesus) we will find the perfection in His Word by the living testimony of the writer and God Himself revealed in an eternal awestruck of worship ... Yes, but now we see as through a glass darkly, but then face to face. It gives us everything God is willing to share, and that is sufficient. But it is silent on so many things, like nuclear power, how the sun works, where all those ancient bones come from, etc. We are free to speculate on potential answers as long as they don't violate scripture. But even then, often times what happens is that one person judges another person's opinion because they believe it violates scripture when, in fact, it only violates their interpretation of scripture. That's why, where I live in the bible belt, there are approximately 4.543 million different Baptist churches. Maybe a bit less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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