wingnut- Posted April 18, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2018 On 4/17/2018 at 11:56 AM, WilliamL said: Your first sentence is really ridiculous: in the Bible, Jerusalem is called by different names, including "Sodom" (Is. 1:10) when metaphorically appropriate. There is no reason at all that the Bible would not likewise use a metaphorical name for Rome. Then produce where it is, shouldn't be that difficult. For example, I can produce where Jerusalem is symbolically linked to other cities. Again I would refer you to Ezekiel 16. On 4/17/2018 at 11:56 AM, WilliamL said: As for your second sentence, the verses above show just such a metaphorical "code." And if you know your Ante-Nicencean history, you know that the Church of that era did indeed use such a name for Rome. [If Peter was NOT referring to Rome when he said Babylon, to which city was he referring, such the Mesopotamian Babylon did not exist in Peter's day?] No it doesn't. There is no evidence to suggest Peter was in Rome when he wrote this, or that he was referring to Rome at all, this is why a precedence would be necessary. You have decided that it is because it fits your theory, but you have no biblical support for it. Peter could have very well been speaking of Jerusalem here, since that is where he spent most of his time. However, I would suspect he was somewhere within the former region of Babylon, which is present day Iraq. On 4/17/2018 at 11:56 AM, WilliamL said: REIGNS, IS: both are present tense in the Greek. Revelation 17 shifts back and forth between present and future tenses, and if you can't accept that fact, then you will never understand the vision. Again I would refer you back to Ezekiel 16. I suppose it's just a coincidence Ezekiel was all about the Babylonian exile. On 4/17/2018 at 11:56 AM, WilliamL said: Jesus was prophesying the doom of Jerusalem, during a Jewish era, for sins up to that day; which doom was fulfilled in 70 A.D. John received his vision about 25 years after the judgment of 70 A.D., and it spoke of a different judgment to take place, during the "times of the Gentiles," at the End of the Age. Luke 21:24 So, two different prophecies about two different eras, two different peoples, and two different cities entirely. This is a disturbing bit. What was accomplished at the cross? What Jesus is referencing in the passage is what He accomplished at calvary, not what occurred in 70 A.D. Sin and death were defeated, and in doing so, He fulfilled all the law and THE PROPHETS. The blood is still on Jerusalem for that reason, and aligns with exactly what is said in Revelation 18 regarding Babylon the great. Revelation 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.” That is only true of Jerusalem, because it was in that great city that sin and death were paid for, for all time. You can't have the blood of the righteous (saints) and the blood of all the prophets placed on Jerusalem in one place, and then claim it is on another city elsewhere. That is ridiculous. Why people want to ignore what scripture actually says is beyond me, this shouldn't even be a debate, it is so obvious it is staggering. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted April 24, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,111 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,550 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) On 4/18/2018 at 11:16 AM, wingnut- said: On 4/17/2018 at 9:56 AM, WilliamL said: Jesus was prophesying the doom of Jerusalem, during a Jewish era, for sins up to that day; which doom was fulfilled in 70 A.D. John received his vision about 25 years after the judgment of 70 A.D., and it spoke of a different judgment to take place, during the "times of the Gentiles," at the End of the Age. Luke 21:24 So, two different prophecies about two different eras, two different peoples, and two different cities entirely. This is a disturbing bit. What was accomplished at the cross? What Jesus is referencing in the passage is what He accomplished at calvary, not what occurred in 70 A.D. Sin and death were defeated, and in doing so, He fulfilled all the law and THE PROPHETS. The blood is still on Jerusalem for that reason, and aligns with exactly what is said in Revelation 18 regarding Babylon the great. Revelation 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.” That is only true of Jerusalem, because it was in that great city that sin and death were paid for, for all time. You can't have the blood of the righteous (saints) and the blood of all the prophets placed on Jerusalem in one place, and then claim it is on another city elsewhere. That is ridiculous. Why people want to ignore what scripture actually says is beyond me, this shouldn't even be a debate, it is so obvious it is staggering. The scripture in question from my previous post: Matthew 23:34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. It is you that is ignoring "what scripture is actually saying." The judgment pronounced upon Jerusalem was limited in time, the duration of that time being "from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah." It is you that is adding to the world, by claiming that Jesus was condemning Jerusalem for events beyond the time of Zechariah, even unto the End of the Age. He said nor implied no such thing. Edited April 24, 2018 by WilliamL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 8 hours ago, WilliamL said: The scripture in question from my previous post: Matthew 23:34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. It is you that is ignoring "what scripture is actually saying." The judgment pronounced upon Jerusalem was limited in time, the duration of that time being "from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah." It is you that is adding to the world, by claiming that Jesus was condemning Jerusalem for events beyond the time of Zechariah, even unto the End of the Age. He said nor implied no such thing. Hardly brother, I mean, you post it, but somehow overlook the obvious. I'll tell you what, I will lay out exactly why you are wrong, and if you would be so kind as to discuss the points I make, then perhaps you could convince me you are right. Let's start with the above passage, specifically let's focus on verse 35 in particular. Let's look at it in comparison to what is said in Revelation. Matthew 23:35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Revelation 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.” Now, kindly explain how those mentioned in Matthew can be attributed to any other city than the one mentioned in Revelation. Let's not forget, Zechariah was one of the last prophets of the OT, there were only two around after him, according to what most believe. So if all the prophets prior to Zechariah were on Jerusalem, and ALL the righteous blood shed on earth were on Jerusalem, how can the city in Revelation be any other city? Point number two. Your theory rests on this idea that the disciples and apostles were afraid of Rome, too afraid to write it down. Interesting that the gospels are riddled with Rome, from the guards and centurions that spit on and mocked Jesus, cast lots for His garments, whipped Him, fashioned a crown of thorns for His head, and hung a sign on Him that read, King of the Jews. Yeah, looks to me like they were terrified of Rome, so terrified they name Pontius Pilate and other Roman officials in direct implication to their role in the crucifixion. The oddity here is, these men are our examples on how to stand up in the face of death, and your theory hinges on them being cowards. Their lives and deaths contradict this character assassination. They were anything but afraid for their lives. They were given a Spirit of power and might, not fear. It was not fear that led John to write Revelation with symbols either, it was simply done so that the book would get off the isle of Patmos, no other reason. Point number three, still waiting for you to produce the reference for Babylon being Rome. For some reason, you still haven't managed to come up with it as of yet. In case this is the best you have to offer, then I will address the one thing you tried to stretch it with. I Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. Now, you claim that this elect church at Babylon, is somehow supposed to be code for Rome. Really? Rome is not even mentioned, not even close to a symbolic reference. So maybe the thing to keep in mind, is that Babylon was more than just a city or an empire. Ezekiel 12:13 And I will spread my net over him, and he shall be taken in my snare. And I will bring him to Babylon, the land of the Chaldeans, yet he shall not see it, and he shall die there. Are you familiar with the Chaldeans? If not, you should know they are still around today. And wouldn't you know, they are kinda known for having Christianity still alive and well in their culture today. I'll give you a hint, Chaldeans don't come from Italy, but somewhere in the Middle East. What you should notice about what Ezekiel prophesied, is that Babylon is not limited to a city, but is known in scripture for being the land of the Chaldeans. That is the Babylon Peter is referencing, and another important thing to note, his son Marcus is also specified. Could it be because Marcus was in Babylon and Peter was just passing on word from him? God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 The Origins of the Mystery/Babylon Religion. Mystery, - Babylon EXPLAINED as per the Religious side. Why would ANYONE follow a Church hierarchy that missed the Rapture? Its not happening brother. HINT: here is a little secret tidbit, I am not saying the RCC hierarchy can't be a part of the Harlot, as can other churches but I am saying the RCC is not THE HARLOT. The Harlot has to stretch from the beginning of mankind till the end. The Clues mandate this, she has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her hands. The RCC was not even around when all of the Saints were killed. The Harlot is Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Witchcraft, Voodoo, ( Baal, Bel, Belios, Zeus and Jupiter are all the SAME God with a little different name hence the Throne of Satan was the Temple to Zeus in Pergamum). All of the Roman gods, all of the Babylonian gods and demi gods, all of the Egyptian gods are all the same. The Mystery Religion of Ancient Babylon or Mesopotamia began post flood, and it is the beginning of paganism, all mankind had just been destroyed. This "Mystery Religion" has been told in many different stories via many religions, it consists of a lot of names of many different gods, but they are in affect all actually the same gods but just different cultures, different times, all the same stories and the explanation to what Mystery Babylon is in its simplest form is that it is simply polytheism and or paganism: WATCH THIS: Polytheism is the belief in MANY GODS: The true knowledge or the goals of these gods were only given to the few. The high priests and priestess who passed down the religion.They required a sacrifice to the gods and they were the only ones that could commune with the gods. They held the secret knowledge which gave them power over the ones who did not have the knowledge. Well you get the point. In Polytheism its always the same structure in most cultures, one man is god, one virgin woman who was the mother of god, and a son of the mother who was impregnated from the male god. Paganism = Father god, Mother god and the Son of god. Paganism came from the line of Ham via Cush see Genesis ch. 10. He created the rebellion against the real God via the Tower of Babel. They wanted to challenge the power of God. So God just confused their languages and put a stop to this nonsense, but Nimrod arose, he was a Mighty hunter and became leader of the Assyrian/Babylonian Empire. Nimrod began these Mystery Religions, but they spread all around the World hence MYSTERY BABYLON is world wide by the time the Angel explains it to us in Revelation chapter 17. Not quite as deep as I am going to explain it here, but nevertheless, we should be able to understand the Angel. Nimrod = sun god Semiramis = moon goddess, the mother and wife of Nimrord Tammuz = the son of good. The Ancient Babylonian god Nebo = Nabu = Nimrod = Ba'al this is the BIRTH of the Occult. It all leads back to Nimrod, and it even goes back further to Cain in reality. The MARK OF CAIN !! So we have Nimrod the sun god, Semiramis the moon god and Tammuz the son of god. Nimrod communicated with the Spirit World of course. They preformed human sacrifices, he was seen as god, he challenged Gods authority. Now Shem, abhorred or hated these abominations and he killed Nimrod, cut him up in pieces and sent him to all the cities Nimrod ruled over to show that he was NOT GOD!! He wanted the people to stop doing what they were doing and to start worshiping and obeying God again. This threw a kink in Satan's plans. BUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT ? Semiramis happened !! The Mother of Harlots. She was the wife of Cush and the mother of Nimrod, she claimed to be divinely born. She married Nimrod after Cush lost power, her own son. After Nimrod was killed she became pregnant and told everyone it was the "Spirit of Nimrod" that impregnated her. (LOL, LOL). She claimed she was having a "Virgin Birth" from the spirit of Nimrod. Her son was going to be the Savior to defeat the serpent when in reality they were worshiping the serpent. She managed to get them to believe that Nimrod ascended to the sun, and she conceived via the sun rays. He was to now be worshiped as Baal, the Sun-god. She made herself a goddess and claimed that she was divinely created, she was in effect the moon-goddess. She had them believing she came from the moon in a giant moon egg. The queen of Babylon aka Semiramis became known as the moon-goddess Ishtar. Tammuz was the Son of god or the Sun-god REBORN !! He was killed by a wild pig, Semiramis, now Ishtar stated that he ascended to the sun like his father and they now are a union. Semiramis/Ishtar continued on with her false religious worship and sacrifices, but because of Shem and their constant defeat by God they CHANGED TACTICS, what was once done out in the open would now be done IN SECRET. The Secret Societies so to speak. All of these dark practices would henceforth be done in the dark, it would become a MYSTERY, only completely revealed unto those that were WORTHY !! You know, the high priests and priestesses. Some say the Free Masons etc. etc. So now you know what the MYSTERY RELIGION was/is. This is how it was Created. But alas, this Mystery Religion spread amongst all the ancient empires of Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece and Rome, this is what Paganism is. The stories may change, the name of the gods may change, but there are ALWAYS THREE CENTRAL FIGURES with a very specific structure. The Father god who is the Sun-god. The Mother god who is the Moon-goddess. The Son of god who is the Sun-god REBORN. Babylon had Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz. Egypt had Ra, Isis and Horus. Greece had Zeus, Artemis and Adonis Rome had Jupiter, Dianna and Apollo. The Nordic's had Odin, Joro and Thor. The Hindu's had Vishnu, Chandra and Krishna Satan seeks to confuse and deceive of course. He knew the SEED would bruise his heel (Die and be Resurrected) and thus bruise the Serpents head. So he knew there had to be a Virgin Birth and a death and resurrection to take away the sins of all mankind, so he set out to copy/imitate and deceive the masses with his MYSTERY RELIGION or with ALL FALSE RELIGION worldwide. Now did the RCC crossover into some of these erroneous practices? I think they did, they treat Mary more akin to the moon-goddess hence the Madonna and the baby. But they did not introduced the bunny rabbits and eggs however, at least not in America, that seems to have arrived in America via a German tradition in the 1700's. German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. So I think its more of a "European" thing, we in America took the MANY TRADITIONS of the many cultures who migrated here and kind of mixed them all into one bag, the bad and the good. But they did not all come from the RCC. More or less most of these practices are from IGNORANCE, not from people actually seeking to worship false gods, and with God, He looks at our hearts intent. So whenever you see a male god and a female god at the head of the hierarchy and there is a "Virgin Birth" you know this is MYSTERY BABYLON , even if there are 100's of other gods, these three are always at the Head or at the Hierarchy of the MYSTERY BABYLON Religion. Have some of these traditions creeped into the RCC? Well, maybe, but the RCC is not the Great Harlot nor can it be. The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGIONS of ALL TIME and it was Birthed by Nimrod in Babylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 "I am saying the RCC is not THE HARLOT" You are correct .... Mystery Babylon the Great is the Lord's way of describing the fall of mankind at the time of the end 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 7 hours ago, Revelation Man said: The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGIONS of ALL TIME and it was Birthed by Nimrod in Babylon. It was birthed by Satan. His influence on Eve birthed unfaithfulness toward God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Last Daze said: It was birthed by Satan. His influence on Eve birthed unfaithfulness toward God. Well that is a given brother, Babylon is Satan's Dark Kingdom, but of course I am speaking about where the Mysterious Babylonian Religions were birthed. The Harlot, and the Gov. Beasts were all birthed, IMHO, in Babylon via Nimrod, his father and mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 53 minutes ago, Revelation Man said: Well that is a given brother, Babylon is Satan's Dark Kingdom, but of course I am speaking about where the Mysterious Babylonian Religions were birthed. The Harlot, and the Gov. Beasts were all birthed, IMHO, in Babylon via Nimrod, his father and mother. Mystery Babylon in Rev 17 & 18 is the spiritual influence of Satan's kingdom on mankind since the beginning. It will end with the return of Christ. It's the only thing that fits all of the characteristics. And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth. Revelation 18:24 That description isn't true if you limit the scope to the time of Nimrod and forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,066 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Last Daze said: Mystery Babylon in Rev 17 & 18 is the spiritual influence of Satan's kingdom on mankind since the beginning. It will end with the return of Christ. It's the only thing that fits all of the characteristics. And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth. Revelation 18:24 That description isn't true if you limit the scope to the time of Nimrod and forward. You are forgetting the Great flood brother, every thing we have now had to come from the people on Noah's Ark. No one is arguing that Satan has not been doing the same things, there were Demonic entities that mixed with woman of the earth, one of the reasons for the flood. The point is, the Harlot as now known was Birthed in the PHYSICAL Babylon. Thus the Clue, Babylon the Great. But in essence its the same thing, you are correct, since the fall of Adam and Eve Satan has ruled this earth, but God points towards Babylon as this worlds spiritual zenith of Darkness. There technically is no MYSTERY anymore, the Angel explained it unto us. Rev. 17 is about the Harlot, Rev. 18 is about the Kingdom (WORLD) of Satan, this whole earth. Rev. 17 starts and ends in Revelation chapter 6, it is All False Religions being Destroyed. Rev. 18 is The whole World (Babylon/Satan's Dark Kingdom) being his with 7 Seal, 7 Trumpet and 7 Vial Judgments. So it starts in Revelation chapter 6 and runs through Revelation chapter 16. Basically, overall you are mostly correct, we just come at it from different angles it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted April 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Revelation Man said: There technically is no MYSTERY anymore The influence of Babylon on the human race is the mystery of iniquity. It takes place in the unseen realm and is still very much a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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