Kingdom of God.

[Willa]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom,  Willa.

This is a common error that is expressed suscinctly in the center margin of the old Scofield Reference Bible (KJV) on page 1238 (2 Corinthians 12:2): He states flatly and without a Bible reference that 'the first heaven is “of clouds,” the second heaven is “of stars,” and the third heaven is “God’s abode.”'

 

I haven't read Scofield.  I quoted Bible references.  Didn't you read them?   

So we agree to disagree?   Pax.

[Retrobyter]

On 7/7/2018 at 10:06 PM, Willa said:

I haven't read Scofield.  I quoted Bible references.  Didn't you read them?   

So we agree to disagree?   Pax.

Shalom, Willa.

Yes, I've read every single one of them. I'd like to explain the simple reasons for the verses you've quoted, if you don't mind. See, first of all, the Greek word ouranos simply means the "sky." Strong's lists the word thus:

3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'). Perhaps from the same as oros (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity) -- air, heaven(-ly), sky.

Note that the words after the dash (--) are English words into which this Greek word was translated in the New Testament of the KJV. This is important to keep in mind as one reads these verses. Remember how Yeshua` used the word in Matthew 16:1-4 as opposed to how the Pharisees and Sadducees used the SAME WORD.

Matthew 16:1-4 (KJV)

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. 2 He answered and said unto them,

"When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. 3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas."

And he left them, and departed.

First, I'm in agreement with you about the first verses you noted, namely Matthew 6:26, Matthew 8:20, Matthew 13:32, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64, Luke 12:56, and James 5:18. You've correctly used the word in your understanding of these verses.

Second, one would find it beneficial to actually provide the substitutions in the next set of verses.

Mark 13:25, which is from the Olivet Discourse, is still talking about the sky.

Mark 13:24-27 (KJV)

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

See, first of all, the "stars" are METEORITES! These "falling stars" or "shooting stars" DO go through the atmosphere to smack into the earth!

Secondly, the "powers that are in heaven" are the weather phenomena that exist in the atmosphere. They, too, shall be disrupted at the Second Coming.

Finally, the "uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" is a VERTICAL measurement from the bottom of the earth in which a person may be found to the top of the atmosphere in which a person may fly in any machine that we have today, whether plane, jet, helicopter, or rocket. This atmosphere can extend to 250 miles when one realizes that the air thins as the molecules separate and become more scarce the higher one goes. As long as a single molecule may still be found at a particular altitude, that molecule is still a part of the atmosphere at that height. One has not completely entered what we call "outer space" which is a vacuum with no trace of the molecules of our atmosphere.

So, this verse is still talking about the earth's atmosphere.

In Hebrews 11:12, the author of the book (possibly Paul) is quoting from Genesis 15:1-7.

Hebrews 11:8-12 (KJV)

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Genesis 15:1-7 (KJV)

1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? 3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look [gaze] now toward heaven (Hebrew: hashaamayimaah = "skyward"), and tell [count] the stars (Hebrew: kowkhaaViym = round-objects like seeds), if thou be able to number [count] them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. 7 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

This is not about the stars in space; this is about what Abram saw THROUGH the atmosphere as he gazed skyward! The reason why this word "hashaamayimaah" is in the dual with the feminine singular ending (constituting an abstract concept) is because there is a daytime sky and there is a nighttime sky. Abram was looking at the nighttime sky. This carries into the Greek of Hebrews 11:12. In Genesis 1:, God didn't create the sun and the moon in the sky; He created a GREATER LIGHT and a LESSER LIGHT in the sky!

In Psalm 8:3, we are DEFINITELY looking at the Hebrew word, "shaameykhaa." This is the word "shaameey" with the second-person, singular ending attached interpreted as "thy." This word refers to the expanse ABOVE the expanse called "heaven" or ABOVE "the sky," where indeed the sun, moon, and stars exist.

I used to believe in the sky-space-God's abode theory, but when I investigated the Greek, I discovered that the words used for "heaven" didn't match that theory. The Greek words used for "heaven," "heavens," and "heavenly" and even "heavenlies" are "3772 ouranos," "3770 ouranios," "3771 ouranothen," "3321 mesouraneema," and "2032 epouranios," as listed in Strong's Concordance. All of them are based on the root "ouran-."

"Ouranos" means the "sky."
Adding the "-ios" ending to get "ouranios" gives you the adjective form meaning "belonging to or coming from the sky."
Adding the "-othen" ending to get "ouranothen" gives you the adverbial form meaning "from the sky."
Adding the "meso-" prefix meaning "middle" and the "-eema" ending, you get "mesouraneema," a neuter noun meaning "mid-sky." 
Adding "epi" meaning "above" or "upon" with the "-ios" adjective ending gives you the adjective form "epouranios" meaning "belonging to or coming from ABOVE the sky."

NONE of these give a meaning of "God's abode!" The closest thing to it is the word "epouranios," but Paul used it for the sun, moon and stars in 1 Corinthians 15:40-41.

1 Corinthians 15:40-41 (KJV)

40 There are also celestial bodies (Greek: soomata epourania), and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial (Greek: epouranioon) is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Here, "glory" refers to the brightness and hue of the heavenly body.

That doesn't make it wrong, however, because the New Jerusalem is also said to be an "epouranios" city in Hebrews 12:22!

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem (Greek: Ierousaleem epouranioo), and to an innumerable company of angels, 

Even the word "mesouraneema," which is used in only three places in the New Testament, all of them in the book of Revelation, means "mid-sky" as revealed in the limiting verse Revelation 19:17.

Revelation 19:17-18 (KJV)

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven (Greek: en mesouraneemati), Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

An "angel" might be able to fly above the atmosphere, at least according to theory, but not the birds!

That's the Greek; the Hebrew involves fewer words: There's only "shaamayim" (or "hashaamaayim" with the definite-article prefix of "ha-") and "shameey hashaamayim" translated as the "heaven of the heavens." The first one is where the birds fly; the second is where the sun, moon, and stars are. Remember, too, that the Hebrew is not dependent upon the vowels as much as the consonants.

So, when we talk about the 19th verse of Psalm 103, where we ASSUME "heaven" to be will GREATLY influence our understanding of the verse, and how you define the word "heaven" in light of the Hebrew word "shaamayim" will also influence your understanding of that verse! It may SEEM to support your view of "heaven," but to me, it greatly supports my view of where "heaven" is! Is His throne set in some place other than the atmosphere or space? OR, is His throne set in the sky, particularly the atmosphere? Remember that the word "spirit" (Hebrew "ruwach") primarily means the "WIND!"

Psalm 20:6 also uses the words "mishmeey qaadshow" meaning "from-[the]-expanse-(of-the-expanse-called-"the-sky") his-clean," or put in English order, "from his clean expanse (of the expanse called 'the sky')."

Switching gears back to Greek, when we read Matthew 5:33-48, focusing on 34, 45, and 48, it only confirms to me Yeshua`s understanding of verses like Psalm 103:19.

Matthew 5:33-48 (KJV)

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Look at how He connected His understanding of the word to the weather of our atmosphere! Without changing the sun or the earth in any way, God "makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good" by giving them a CLEAR SKY AT SUNRISE! And, He "sends rain on the justified and on the unjustified" equally by allowing it to cloud up and rain over an entire area.

Regarding Mark 13:27, we've already touched on this passage above, being part of the Olivet Discourse, but if you'll notice, the Messiah has already returned "in the clouds" when He sends out His messengers (Greek: aggeloi, transliterated as "angels") to retrieve His elect.

Regarding...

John 3:9-31, focusing on 3:13 and 3:31 (KJV)

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things (Greek: ta epourania = "things from-above-the-sky")? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven (Greek: eis ton ouranon = "into the sky"), but he that came down from heaven (Greek: ek tou ouranou = "out-of the sky"), even the Son of man which is in heaven (Greek: ho oon en too ouranoo = "the-one-who is in the sky"). 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in AEnon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. 24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. 26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

31 He that cometh from above (the Messiah) is above all: he that is of the earth (John) is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven (Greek: ho ek tou ouranou erchomenos = "the-one-who out-of the sky comes") is above all.

There are seven verses to go, but I'll save them for a later post. I hope you can see how these verses can be slightly different than what one might have been taught to understand by looking at the Greek and Hebrew.