eugenelester Posted April 11, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 37 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1985 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 hours ago, enoob57 said: a·pol·o·get·ics a·pol·o·get·ics [ə pòllə jéttiks] n branch of Christian theology: a branch of theology that is concerned with proving the truth of Christianity (takes a singular verb) Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. and the proof we have is His creative Word and written Word... ok, theme of topic, how I see, lost. Christian apologetics (Greek: ἀπολογία, "verbal defence, speech in defence")[1] is a branch of Christian theology that aims to present historical, reasoned, and evidential bases for Christianity, defending it against objections.[2] (Wikipedia) Please answer to simple question: how did you know that exactly Bible it word from God, why not other book, why not Koran for example? And other question: how did you know, that God really exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugenelester Posted April 11, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 37 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1985 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 hours ago, siegi91 said: "Did come from" is a tensed verb with the word "from" which assumes an external environment. Therefore, it assumes an external time and space context, clocks, etc, Nothing of the sort exists outside the Universe, by definition. Ergo, the Universe cannot be coming from, and the question: "where did the Universe come from?" is meaningless. Now, the question is whether answers to meaningless questions can be taken seriously. And that is left as a simple exercise to the reader. siegi Is the universe eternal? why can not we put such a question? Did you read the article by reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugenelester Posted April 11, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 37 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1985 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 hours ago, siegi91 said: Do you think that making any cosmological argument, that strongly depends on an outdated and discredited ontology of time, is a rational thing to do? It might have worked in medieval times, when Kalam and Aquinas were young, and nobody had a clue of relativity. But today it won't do, I am afraid. In my experience, these arguments do not convince any atheist who knows basic physics, but it runs the risk of confusing the believer who is not acquainted with those things. So, it is counter-productive, really. Therefore, I would recommend to keep your belief as a statement of faith. This is entirely acceptable and I am sure it is also theologically tenable. Otherwise, trying to justify it with physics and philosophy will only hurt you. Believe me, you don't want that. siegi Has someone already proved that the Universe is eternal? Or did someone abolish conservation laws or the second law of thermodynamics? Or the fundamental laws of logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted April 11, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,154 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted April 11, 2018 2 hours ago, eugenelester said: ok, theme of topic, how I see, lost. Christian apologetics (Greek: ἀπολογία, "verbal defence, speech in defence")[1] is a branch of Christian theology that aims to present historical, reasoned, and evidential bases for Christianity, defending it against objections.[2] (Wikipedia) Please answer to simple question: how did you know that exactly Bible it word from God, why not other book, why not Koran for example? And other question: how did you know, that God really exist? Please answer to simple question: how did you know that exactly Bible it word from God, why not other book, why not Koran for example? Because God claimed it as His... I know because I have examined it thoroughly and it is content is remarkable to the point it could only have come from God Who created this place and all that is therein... This is a good witness of facts https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html And other question: how did you know, that God really exist? This is a easy one... because He lives within me. All one need do is to examine the world we are in; the construct requires a designer but also of 'source' all things lead to the reality of infinite yet because of entropy the designed thing testifies it is not infinite... Leaving us with a designer that must have infinite ability without causal existence. This set of parameters, alone, if studied to resource conclusion will bring one into the reality That God 'IS' and all will answer to Him for why they are like they are. God says in His Word 'promises' and this will be very specific to your question of how can I really know God exists Jer 29:13 13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. KJV God keeps His Word... and knowing this also 2 Peter 3:9 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. KJV The real rub is that most people don't understand that they approach God already indebted to Him for existence and then use that existence as ungrateful in core approach to God: If God exists He going to have to prove Himself to me but really what you are using is God's already and who can command Him? Sin is the root of all this wrong attitude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ7 Posted April 12, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/13/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) On 4/11/2018 at 1:34 AM, Jayne said: On 4/10/2018 at 11:49 PM, eugenelester said: it is strange, but you say about thing, that doesn't relative to theme of thread. If we speak about apologetics, we must show rational facts for people, who doesn't accept Bible. How we can use Bible as autority, if unbeliever people doesn't accept this book? For start we must using facts that prove of God's existense. And that Bible is information from Him. Only after this we can use Bible, but no before. You are saying that we cannot use the Bible to witness to non-believers until the existence of God is proved to them? I wish so badly that you could have been at my church Sunday and heard the testimonies from our Gideon speaker about people who are saved by reading the Bible. I love to hear these testimonies. A Gideon team was in a prison not long ago for men who have life sentences. They were allowed to pass out Bibles to the men who would take one. One man yelled and screamed, "I'm not taking that book! Get away from me!" The Gideons cam back a couple of weeks later to talk to any of the men who wanted to discuss what they had been reading or to ask more about Christ and salvation. They saw the angry man. He was frightening looking. He yelled at them again, "Hey! Hey!" They were nervous. Then he said, "I didn't take one of your Bibles, but my cell mate did. HE CAN'T READ so he wanted me to read it to him and I got saved!!!" That's the supernatural power of the gospel. Another Gideon [business men who pass out and place Bibles all over the world] was in Japan not long ago. He was talking to a local preacher who was sharing his testimony with him. He said, "As a very young man, I was not saved and was a thief. That's how I made my way through life. I broke into a girl's school one night to find some money. Some of the girls woke up and began screaming. One of the girls threw something at my head and hit me with it. I grabbed it in my hand - why, I don't know - and escaped. It was a Bible. I kept it for a while - why, I don't know - but one day I began to read it and I saw my sin. I was saved and am now a pastor." The Bible is not "information" from God. It's a living, two-edged sword. It does not return to God void. It's had supernatural authority. Because it is the literal "word of God", it can be miraculously used as you see above. To convince someone of the existence of God without the Bible is futile. Yes, Romans 1 says that people have no excuse. But that doesn't mean to lay the Bible aside until you've convinced some and then and only then to share "information". God's word is infinitely more supernatural than mere information. Which bible is the "literal" word of God? If you claim this then every printed bible is from God no matter who translates it. So incorrectly translated bibles are still the literal word of God? The only perfect word of God is the original Greek and Hebrew texts, the English is as close as you can get with English translators putting their own thoughts or ideas into it, even as so far as to add to or take away from the word to suit themselves. If you would say then it's infallible, then your saying the many translators cannot possibly translate it wrong because they are perfectly infallible as well, to be able to translate it perfectly. As we know this isn't true. Edited April 12, 2018 by DJ7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytLiJC Posted April 13, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 357 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 65 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/9/2018 at 9:02 PM, eugenelester said: The most correct and obvious answer to the question of “Where did Universe come from?” is that it, being finite, has eternal Primal cause, which is non-material by its nature and not bound by laws of nature as matter is. It is simple and elementary. More by link: Where did Universe come from? some things are indefinitely existing/present throughout the time's infinity, including the "Light"(the true God), the "darkness"(the wicked one), the souls and the primordial substance (called "water(s)" in the Bible), time as constantly passing, the universe as an infinitely large place and the truth Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted May 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Yowm said: Being eternal and omnipresent, HE IS. God goes from place to place just like any one else (Gen. 3:8; 11:5; 18:1-22, 33; 19:24; 32:24-32; 35:13; Zech. 14:5; Titus 2:13). God is omnipresent but not omni body, that is His presence can be felt everywhere but His body is not everywhere. God wears cloths (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-19; God eats food (Gen. 18:1-22; Exodus 24:11). Jesus states in His Word that God at this time is in Heaven on His throne, and Jesus is sitting at His right hand. When Jesus prayed to the Father while on earth He always said, My father, In Heaven, not everywhere at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneGodBeliever Posted May 7, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 120 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/18/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2018 God did create the universe as you can't get biology from chemistry. No living from non living !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2018 On 4/9/2018 at 4:56 PM, HAZARD said: Genesis 1:1,In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Yes. And since this predates the six creation days, for all we know that happened a LOOOOOOONG time ago. As we look deeper and deeper into space - and back in time - the more incredible the whole thing becomes. I recently watched this YEC apologist video. The information is, quite frankly, mind boggling. "What you are not being told about astronomy part II" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66409i-yn4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted May 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 12:04 PM, Jayne said: You are saying that we cannot use the Bible to witness to non-believers until the existence of God is proved to them? I wish so badly that you could have been at my church Sunday and heard the testimonies from our Gideon speaker about people who are saved by reading the Bible. I love to hear these testimonies. A Gideon team was in a prison not long ago for men who have life sentences. They were allowed to pass out Bibles to the men who would take one. One man yelled and screamed, "I'm not taking that book! Get away from me!" The Gideons cam back a couple of weeks later to talk to any of the men who wanted to discuss what they had been reading or to ask more about Christ and salvation. They saw the angry man. He was frightening looking. He yelled at them again, "Hey! Hey!" They were nervous. Then he said, "I didn't take one of your Bibles, but my cell mate did. HE CAN'T READ so he wanted me to read it to him and I got saved!!!" That's the supernatural power of the gospel. Another Gideon [business men who pass out and place Bibles all over the world] was in Japan not long ago. He was talking to a local preacher who was sharing his testimony with him. He said, "As a very young man, I was not saved and was a thief. That's how I made my way through life. I broke into a girl's school one night to find some money. Some of the girls woke up and began screaming. One of the girls threw something at my head and hit me with it. I grabbed it in my hand - why, I don't know - and escaped. It was a Bible. I kept it for a while - why, I don't know - but one day I began to read it and I saw my sin. I was saved and am now a pastor." The Bible is not "information" from God. It's a living, two-edged sword. It does not return to God void. It's had supernatural authority. Because it is the literal "word of God", it can be miraculously used as you see above. To convince someone of the existence of God without the Bible is futile. Yes, Romans 1 says that people have no excuse. But that doesn't mean to lay the Bible aside until you've convinced some and then and only then to share "information". God's word is infinitely more supernatural than mere information. I think he's more addressing the cut and paste of a ton of unrelated scripture as a less than effective evangelistic method. Few people read all of a post that is more than a paragraph or two. And just slapping up a bunch of scripture for someone is a lot different from handing them a bible and telling them the truth can be found there. But I may be just projecting. I'm fairly new here and one of my very first frustrations was a propensity for many people to create huge and disjointed posts. It's as if every post is a bible study in a post. And I did read one of them and the guy was just all over the place. i.e. the post did not deserve my time. My personal rule for posting is that, unless it includes worthwhile humor or other interesting writing styles, never put too many words in a single post, and address one point at a time, and as succinctly and with as few cut and paste references as possible. It increases the odds someone will read the whole thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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