INDULGENCES

[Patrick Miron]

4 hours ago, Billiards Ball said:

Hi, salvation is not a test, else Christ lied in saying whoever trusts Him will never perish. Both testaments agree, trust I God is the key.

OH! Who picks who gets saved and  others sent to hell?

 

 

Really?

 

1. So for at least 1,500 YEARS before the Reformation, we Catholics got it "all wrong."?   And then for 500 more years we still haven't embraced Protestant theology; choosing to rather keep the OLD "Tried and True" Original set of Faith beliefs of Jesus Himself passed on to Us Catholics.... Go figure.

2. Point #2 is the Bible my friend s a Catholic Book. It was the early Catholic Fathers who guided by the HS selected amidst much debate the 46 OT books to be included; and Catholic men {including 5  Apostles} who AUTHORED the ENTIRE NT....

Does it not seem strange to YOU that Protestants with literally thousands of differing sets of Faith beliefs {each and every "church" is self-identified by its OWN freely chosen set of faith-beliefs} are attempting to tell the Catholics with ONE set of 2,000 year Old Faith beliefs what the ITS OWN Bible is teaching?

2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. End Quotes

2^nd. Peter 3: 14-18 “ [15] And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. [17] You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and unto the day of eternity. Amen.

Then if the above is not grasped in its significance to you; please consider the following.

Duet. 4: 2 “ [2] You shall not add to the word that I speak to you, neither shall you take away from it: keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. 

Duet 12:32  [32] What I command thee, that only do thouto the Lord: neither add any thing, nor diminish.

Rev. 22:19 “ [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

In addition to textual changes to accommodate their NEWLY invented religions; Luther {a Apostate Catholic Monk; and Calvin an Apostate Catholic deleted 7 entire books from the bible as they somehow conflicted with what THEY wanted to teach; and you my friend are going to lecture me about not rightly understanding OUR Bible.?.... Go figure.

Psalm 30:24-25 "[24] O love the Lord, all ye his saints: for the Lord will require truth, and will repay them abundantly that act proudly. [25] Do ye manfully, and let your heart be strengthened, all ye that hope in the Lord.

May Jesus guide our life path’s,

God Bless you,

Patrick

[Robert William]

Romanites preach a false gospel of salvation by works!

[Alan Hales]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 12:39 AM, Patrick Miron said:

Your kidding right?

John 20: 19-23 

 [19] Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples {NOW TERMED PRIEST...SEE MT 10:1-4} were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to THEM: Peace be to YOU [20] And when he had said this, he shewed THEM his hands and his side. The disciples {PRIEST} therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord. [21] He said therefore TO THEM again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent ME  I also send YOU. {WITH SOME OF MY GODLY POWERS AND AUTHORITY...AGAIN SEE MT 10:1-8  [22] When he had said this, he breathed ON THEM and he said to them: Receive YOU the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins YOU shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins YOU shall retain, they are retained.

Friend even without the benefit of God's grace; even a second grader could rightly translate this passage.

Mt.10: 1-4 ;/2 "[1] And having called his twelve disciples together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities. [2] And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, [3] James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, [4] Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. [5] These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go YOU.....

The term disciple and Apostle are often interchangeable. One prudently must be able to discern to WHOM Jesus is speaking to [1] directly [2] precisely & [3] exclusively including their successors  {Mt 10:1-8 compared to Mt 28:18-20.} 

you'll find the term priest {S IN CATHOLIC-PRIEST] right next to the term "bible" in the Bible

Repentance is ONLY the 1st necessary step:

Jesus wan't inventing the wheel here: He was following OT practices; and perfecting them in and through HIS Catholic Priest.

Lev. 5:

 [5] Let him do penance for his sin, [6] And offer of the flocks an ewe lamb, or a she goat, and the priest shall pray for him and for his sin:

[16] And he shall make good the damage itself which he hath done, and shall add the fifth part besides, delivering it to the priest, who shall pray for him, offering the ram, and it shall be forgiven him

 Friend the OT leads to the NT which is fulfilled and even Perfected by Jesus.

So a question: IF as you indicate, John 20:19-23 is NOT Jesus instituting the Sacrament of Penance {known SIN forgiveness} why then do you suppose this is in the Holy Spirit Inspired Bible? And secondly; just how is you feel empowered to teach Christ Church; the birthers of the bible; what it means?  ...We HAD the bible for at least 1,500 years before your Protestant faith came along. ...

May the Holy Spirit lead our life paths,

Patrick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1]The Disciples weren't and are not priests, Done let the Catholics con you with there erroneous beliefs. Eph 4: 11 says Jesus gave.

Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers...    Where is the priest? where is the pope??. Nowhere in the Biblical New Testament Church

[2]Jesus said EVERY believer will do the same works that Jesus did. Jn 14: 12, and

EVERY believer shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mk 16: 17--18.

 

[3]I have explained what Jn 20: 23 means, and how you CAN'T take ONE out of context verse to build a doctrine on.

There is no such Biblical thing as the sacrament of penance. It's one of the erroneous teachings that the Catholics made up.

[4]Forget Lev 5, It isn't in the New Testament Church age.

 

[Alan Hales]

14 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

Okee-Dokee, if you say so

God Bless you friend

Patrick

 

It's not what I say, It's what the Bible teaches, But I know the Catholics aren't allowed to believe the Bible.

[Billiards Ball]

11 hours ago, Concretecamper said:

Tradition does not trump scripture.  Scripture is born of Tradition so they do not differ at all.

Tradition may differ from your interpretation of scripture, but that is your problem.

Hello,

Scripture was not birthed by tradition, but by the Holy Spirit. The Catholic doctrine of Ex Cathedra (when the Holy Spirit inspires, He inspires inerrant doctrines) is based on the scriptures explaining how scripture is Spirit-led, Spirit-birthed.

Thank you.

[Billiards Ball]

10 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

OH! Who picks who gets saved and  others sent to hell?

 

 

Really?

 

1. So for at least 1,500 YEARS before the Reformation, we Catholics got it "all wrong."?   And then for 500 more years we still haven't embraced Protestant theology; choosing to rather keep the OLD "Tried and True" Original set of Faith beliefs of Jesus Himself passed on to Us Catholics.... Go figure.

2. Point #2 is the Bible my friend s a Catholic Book. It was the early Catholic Fathers who guided by the HS selected amidst much debate the 46 OT books to be included; and Catholic men {including 5  Apostles} who AUTHORED the ENTIRE NT....

Does it not seem strange to YOU that Protestants with literally thousands of differing sets of Faith beliefs {each and every "church" is self-identified by its OWN freely chosen set of faith-beliefs} are attempting to tell the Catholics with ONE set of 2,000 year Old Faith beliefs what the ITS OWN Bible is teaching?

2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. End Quotes

2^nd. Peter 3: 14-18 “ [15] And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. [17] You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and unto the day of eternity. Amen.

Then if the above is not grasped in its significance to you; please consider the following.

Duet. 4: 2 “ [2] You shall not add to the word that I speak to you, neither shall you take away from it: keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. 

Duet 12:32  [32] What I command thee, that only do thouto the Lord: neither add any thing, nor diminish.

Rev. 22:19 “ [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

In addition to textual changes to accommodate their NEWLY invented religions; Luther {a Apostate Catholic Monk; and Calvin an Apostate Catholic deleted 7 entire books from the bible as they somehow conflicted with what THEY wanted to teach; and you my friend are going to lecture me about not rightly understanding OUR Bible.?.... Go figure.

Psalm 30:24-25 "[24] O love the Lord, all ye his saints: for the Lord will require truth, and will repay them abundantly that act proudly. [25] Do ye manfully, and let your heart be strengthened, all ye that hope in the Lord.

May Jesus guide our life path’s,

God Bless you,

Patrick

Hello,

For a long time, Rome's gospel has differed from the saving gospel of simple trust in Christ. Over 150 NT verses have some variant of "trust Jesus/transfer trust to Jesus from yourself for salvation". Many other verses exclude works and explain the assurance of the believer who has trusted Jesus for salvation.

I'm not a Protestant, but a large part of the Reformation's momentum began when a Catholic monk, studying a passage from Romans 1 inspired by the OT book of Habakkuk, realized that Rome's gospel was different than the Bible's declaration that "the saving gospel says justification comes to us through faith".

The Douay commentary on 2 Peter is unfortunate, because Peter tells us that even though "he was an eyewitness of Jesus, and for a long time, the scriptures are more reliable". Thus, one of the chief passages of scripture that affirms scripture is above Peter's commentary, Peter's personal tradition, and traditions and testimonies as in Peter's own words inspired by God (!), is used to say Rome or another church can alter the teachings of the scriptures, using "tradition" and "authority".

Thank you.

[Mike Mclees]

13 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

OH! Who picks who gets saved and  others sent to hell?

 

 

Really?

 

1. So for at least 1,500 YEARS before the Reformation, we Catholics got it "all wrong."?   And then for 500 more years we still haven't embraced Protestant theology; choosing to rather keep the OLD "Tried and True" Original set of Faith beliefs of Jesus Himself passed on to Us Catholics.... Go figure.

2. Point #2 is the Bible my friend s a Catholic Book. It was the early Catholic Fathers who guided by the HS selected amidst much debate the 46 OT books to be included; and Catholic men {including 5  Apostles} who AUTHORED the ENTIRE NT....

Does it not seem strange to YOU that Protestants with literally thousands of differing sets of Faith beliefs {each and every "church" is self-identified by its OWN freely chosen set of faith-beliefs} are attempting to tell the Catholics with ONE set of 2,000 year Old Faith beliefs what the ITS OWN Bible is teaching?

2 Peter 1: [16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [17] For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. [19] And we have the prophetic word made more sure. You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. [20] First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, [21] because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Douay Bible explanation 20 "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation"... This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

21 For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghost. End Quotes

2^nd. Peter 3: 14-18 “ [15] And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. [17] You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and unto the day of eternity. Amen.

Then if the above is not grasped in its significance to you; please consider the following.

Duet. 4: 2 “ [2] You shall not add to the word that I speak to you, neither shall you take away from it: keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. 

Duet 12:32  [32] What I command thee, that only do thouto the Lord: neither add any thing, nor diminish.

Rev. 22:19 “ [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

In addition to textual changes to accommodate their NEWLY invented religions; Luther {a Apostate Catholic Monk; and Calvin an Apostate Catholic deleted 7 entire books from the bible as they somehow conflicted with what THEY wanted to teach; and you my friend are going to lecture me about not rightly understanding OUR Bible.?.... Go figure.

Psalm 30:24-25 "[24] O love the Lord, all ye his saints: for the Lord will require truth, and will repay them abundantly that act proudly. [25] Do ye manfully, and let your heart be strengthened, all ye that hope in the Lord.

May Jesus guide our life path’s,

God Bless you,

Patrick

If you knew the Holy Ghost you would be in spired of Him, and if anyone has taken away form the inspired writing the church of Rome did it first

[Mike Mclees]

1 hour ago, Mike Mclees said:

If you knew the Holy Ghost you would be inspired of Him, and if anyone has taken away from the inspired writing the church of Rome did it first

Who picks those who go hell and those who don't sounds like sarcasm Patrick  

Edited October 3, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[Behold]

16 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

 

 

1. So for at least 1,500 YEARS before the Reformation, we Catholics got it "all wrong."?   And then for 500 more years we still haven't embraced Protestant theology; choosing to rather keep the OLD "Tried and True" Original set of Faith beliefs of Jesus Himself passed on to Us Catholics.... Go figure.

 

Patrick

 

Patrick, you say that Jesus passed an "original set of faith beliefs" to Catholics?

Well, thats not in the bible..... = go figure.

And you are certainly not speaking of the Grace of God, or Salvation by the Grace of God, or  anything related to "justification by faith", as all this DOCTRINE was given to Paul, by Jesus Himself., not Peter.

At least a decade after Jesus ascended back to heaven, Peter is still clueless regarding the fact that the grace of God is given to MANKIND, and not just Jews..... And that is why you have Chapter 10 in the book of Acts.  As it exposes the lack of understanding that Peter had, regarding the Grace of God, even a decade after Jesus was gone from this planet.

So, you might want to lay down your "handbook for Catholics", and actually pick up a bible and find out a few things about how the body of Christ was given 99% of the revelation that pertains to Salvation..  = It all came through Christ, to  PAUL, not to  Peter.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Behold

[Patrick Miron]

11 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

On 10/1/2018 at 7:39 PM, Patrick Miron said:

 

[1]The Disciples weren't and are not priests, Done let the Catholics con you with there erroneous beliefs. Eph 4: 11 says Jesus gave.

Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers...    Where is the priest? where is the pope??. Nowhere in the Biblical New Testament Church

[2]Jesus said EVERY believer will do the same works that Jesus did. Jn 14: 12, and

EVERY believer shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mk 16: 17--18.

 

[3]I have explained what Jn 20: 23 means, and how you CAN'T take ONE out of context verse to build a doctrine on.

There is no such Biblical thing as the sacrament of penance. It's one of the erroneous teachings that the Catholics made up.

[4]Forget Lev 5, It isn't in the New Testament Church age.

Friend your looking to argue about things you seem not to know anything about.

I have neither the time nor the energy anymore to do so.

I'm a teacher, not a debater these days

God Bless you

Patrick