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"Christians" that sin....an answer


Debp

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On 10/31/2018 at 6:58 AM, discipler777 said:

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Hebrews 6 = 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

(NKJV)

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2Thessalonians 2 = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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1Corinthians 6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

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Hebrews 10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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To me, the "fall away" of Hebrews 6:4 is related to the "falling away" by the lawlessness and unrighteousness of 2Thess 2 that will precede the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ to earth.

Christians, for whatever reasons(eg self-deception/delusion and doctrines of demons), who fall into wilful or ignorant sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking, will be severely cursed/judged by God and may lose their salvation by losing faith in Christ/God while suffering for their sins, eg Job 2:9. Otoh, if they repent and keep the faith, like King David and Job, they will remain saved from hell.

1 John 2:18–19 (AV)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You can't lose salvation or walk away from it ever... to do so means you never had salvation in the first place. 

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:27 AM, Debp said:

If we truly have believed on the Lord Jesus as our personal Savior, we seek to walk with Him....walk in a godly manner in our daily life.   There might be times that we do slip and fall...however, if we really know the Lord, we are sorry for any sins and will confess them and seek to forsake the sins.  Because to sin causes grief in our hearts as believers.

If a person continually walks in a sinful lifestyle, then I would think that person never really believed in the Lord at all.   Perhaps they only had a head knowledge of the faith?

God put it simply 

Matt 7:20

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
KJV


yet again there is this so we might not become final judges

1 Cor 5:1-5

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV


It as it should be God holds us in the tension of His Word because all things pass from our personal abilities, as should be in truth, unto Him Whom the Word belongs :thumbsup:
Thus The Scriptures alone empowered by God's Teacher can lead us to God and the doing of His Will...

Edited by enoob57
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2 hours ago, JohnD said:

1 John 2:18–19 (AV)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

You can't lose salvation or walk away from it ever... to do so means you never had salvation in the first place. 

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1JOHN.2:18-19 (NKJV) = Deceptions of the Last Hour

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

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MATTHEW.24:15-16 & 23-24 = 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. ...

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

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LUKE.21:20-22 = 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

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1JOHN.2:18-19 has to be looked at in the proper historical context of the time in order to not misinterpret Scripture. Who were the "antichrists" and what is "the last hour" of 1JOHN.2:18.? ...

After causing Jesus Christ to be crucified for not being the Christ/Messiah of their desires, ie one who would defeat the foreign Roman rulers and gift them back their kingdom of earth or Israel(JOHN.6:15), the Jews appointed antichrists or false christs for themselves to lead them into armed rebellion or holy war against the Romans = the First Jewish Roman War. This culminated in the Roman Army destroying the Jews and their Holy Temple of God in Jerusalem in 70AD = the last hour.

"The last hour" cannot be referring to the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ because John was writing to fellow Jewish Christians of his time("They went out from us, but they were not of us"), ie during the 1st century AD.

Who were those who "went out from us".?  They were some deceived Jewish Christians who had also hoped to be gifted back their kingdom of Israel, so they believed in the false christs or antichrists and joined in the Jewish armed rebellion against the Romans, instead of continuing to believe that Jesus was the Christ/Messiah/Saviour. IOW, salvation can be lost when a Christian no longer believes that Jesus is the Christ/Messiah/Saviour, eg by being deceived and going after  a false christ or antichrist as the 2nd Coming of the real/true Jesus Christ to earth approaches.(2THESS.2:9-12)

Fyi, the Muslims and Jews are also expecting the coming of Christ/Messiah or Mahdi to earth to avenge them against their enemies. How should Christians determine the real/true Christ from the false/antiChrist when news about "the Christ" Coming starts appearing everywhere.?

MATTHEW.16:15-20 = 15 He said to them, But who do you say that I am?

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth [h]will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Edited by discipler777
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16 hours ago, discipler777 said:

Not really true. ...

REVELATION.22:3-5 (NKJV) = 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

It is true indeed

Romans 8:KJV

14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. {15} For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

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4 hours ago, Adstar said:

It is true indeed

Romans 8:KJV

14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. {15} For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

Stating that a son of God is not a servant of God is not really the whole truth, ie the whole truth is that a son of God is also a servant of God.

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MARK.10:45 (NKJV) = For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

PHILIPPIANS.2:22 = But you know his proven character, that as a son with his father he served with me in the gospel.

EXODUS.4:21-23 = 21 And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.” ’ ”

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20 hours ago, discipler777 said:

Stating that a son of God is not a servant of God is not really the whole truth, ie the whole truth is that a son of God is also a servant of God.

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MARK.10:45 (NKJV) = For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

PHILIPPIANS.2:22 = But you know his proven character, that as a son with his father he served with me in the gospel.

EXODUS.4:21-23 = 21 And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.” ’ ”

Their primary status is as an adopted Son or Daughter of God.. They serve their Father but not as lowly servants.. They have a far higher status then that of a servant..

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2 hours ago, Adstar said:

Their primary status is as an adopted Son or Daughter of God.. They serve their Father but not as lowly servants.. They have a far higher status then that of a servant..

Not really true. Christians are to replace Satan and demons as faithful servants and sons/daughters of God the Father.

MATTHEW.25: (NKJV) = The Parable of the Talents

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. .......

26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.

29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

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19 hours ago, Betha said:

our primary interest should be to 'learn GOD's WAY OF LIFE which is different from what a carnal sinful Human has been USED TO....quite different, coming from a background of DISobedience to God only pleasing the self Eph 2v1,2,3....

we should not think that having been adopted or grafted in makes us immediately righteous and perfect....we must first get rid of the OLD SELF in order to 'put on the New.

to learn obedience takes time ! 

We are Deemed righteous by God because we are covered by the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ..  

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4 hours ago, Adstar said:

We are Deemed righteous by God because we are covered by the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ..  

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Yes, those who place their faith in Jesus Christ have put on the righteousness of Christ(= deemed righteous by God) for their salvation from hell when they die = resurrected or raptured unto eternal life in the kingdom of heaven/God. Only while in Christ are they saved. But what about their own righteousness on earth.? Can those who become unrighteous or wilfully/intentionally or ignorantly sin, be out of Christ.?(cf HEBREWS.10:26-31, 1COR.5:5, JOB.2:9, 1TIMOTHY.4:1) ...

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1JOHN.5:16-17 (NKJV) = 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Edited by discipler777
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On 11/7/2018 at 6:07 PM, discipler777 said:

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Yes, those who place their faith in Jesus Christ have put on the righteousness of Christ(= deemed righteous by God) for their salvation from hell when they die = resurrected or raptured unto eternal life in the kingdom of heaven/God. Only while in Christ are they saved. But what about their own righteousness on earth.? Can those who become unrighteous or wilfully/intentionally or ignorantly sin, be out of Christ.?(cf HEBREWS.10:26-31, 1COR.5:5, JOB.2:9, 1TIMOTHY.4:1) ...

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1JOHN.5:16-17 (NKJV) = 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11 = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

   ""There is sin leading to death"" That sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. Those who sin willfully will not have their wilful sins covered by the Blood of the LORD after they are saved..

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