"Christians" that sin....an answer

[brakelite]

Muslims believe that when Allah says "I forgive you" it is all-sufficient. They see no requirement for redemption and a judicial price to be paid. On the other hand, what they see in Christianity is mostly the Catholic version of justification. That even though one is forgiven, a price is still to be paid by the sinner, aka penance/purgatory. 

The power of the Spirit comes only with truth. Muslims and all others are converted when they encounter truth if they are open and willing to learn and understand. That truth is found only in the gospel. Not the social gospel of Pope Francis...not the works/ sacramental gospel of traditional Catholicism...not the presumptuous gospel of some which declare a Christian cannot sin...nor the selfish prosperity gospel of the televangelists...but rather the gospel once delivered to the saints...

That Christ died for me, a sinner, and that on account of the precious blood offered in my stead, I am accounted righteous before a holy God. All the condemnation and penalty for my transgressions have been met at the cross. I am now justified. But atonement was not made at the cross. Although it is thus taught, that atonement was made and finished at Calvary when the Lamb of God died, and though much of the Christian world so believes this to be, and the majority of churches teach this, the popularity of the concept does not make it any more true, if unsupported by divine authority. Perhaps many who attempt to share the gospel today are unaware of this, and wonder at why it seems the Spirit is so unsupportive of that concept. Allow me to make some points...

1. If the atonement was made at Calvary, by whom was it made? The making of atonement is the work of a priest, but who officiated at Calvary? Roman soldiers and wicked Jews. 

2. The slaying of the lamb did not make atonement, because it was the sinner that slew the victim. See Levit. 4:1-4; 13-15 etc. After that, the priest took the blood into the sanctuary and made atonement. Levit. 4:5-12; 16-21.

3. Christ was the appointed High Priest to make atonement, and certainly could not have acted in that capacity until after His resurrection. There is no evidence He did anything of that sort while on earth after His resurrection.

4. The atonement was made in the sanctuary...Calvary was not such a place....it was 'outside the gate'. 

5. According to Hebrews 8:4 Christ could not make the atonement while on earth, because He could not be a priest while on earth, not being born of Levi. The Levitical priesthood was an earthly function, the heavenly priesthood divine. 

6. Therefore Jesus could not begin His work of atonement, whatever nature that work was, until after His ascension and entrance into the heavenly sanctuary as described in Hebrews, wherewith His own blood He now ministers as our High Priest in making atonement for us.

Thus the gospel that we must teach others must be a gospel in its entirety. No compromises, no shortcuts, no excuses. The power of the full gospel is then made manifest in bearing fruits of righteousness in those who by nature are still sinners, but who are being transformed by the renewing of their mind after the character and similitude of their Savior. Being justified at the cross...sanctified by the work of truth and the word of God through the ministry of our High Priest in heaven...we then may offer hope to the sinner that glorification is then inevitable to all those who remain faithful and true to their Creator and Redeemer.

[Justin Adams]

Melchizedek. A human that has no parentage and no lineage. God's special Envoy.
And He will be forever a Priest after this order. (not the temporary Levictical and Aaronic order).

The Lord does this from time to time. We do not need to know why, just that He does.

There are many mysteries we do not fully understand yet, but we do know that the temple veil was rent from the top to the bottom and Yeshua's Blood was sprinkled on the Mercy Seat. A one time offering for all the sins of the world. All of them.

 

[Mike Mclees]

I would say  let the one without sin cast the first stone. From personal experience some struggle for years yet love the Lord and pray every day and confess. Should we not all do this or are we all perfect. I am free now because I have been faithful still I ask forgiveness every day.

[Mike Mclees]

9 hours ago, Yowm said:

Religions start their work on the outside hoping change will come to the whole man. 

Jesus starts on the inside with the new birth changing us from the inside out.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean. (Mat 23:25-26)
 

I like you clean the outside of your tombs but inside they are full of dead men's bones  

[Christine]

'But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, 
.. we have fellowship one with another, 
.... and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, 
..  we deceive ourselves, 
.... and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, 
.. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
.... and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, 
.. we make Him a liar, 
.... and His word is not in us.'
(1 John 1:7-10)   

Praise God!

* God has said it, I believe it - 'Praise His Holy Name!

[Mike Mclees]

2 hours ago, Christine said:

'But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, 
.. we have fellowship one with another, 
.... and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, 
..  we deceive ourselves, 
.... and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, 
.. He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
.... and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, 
.. we make Him a liar, 
.... and His word is not in us.'
(1 John 1:7-10)   

Praise God!

* God has said it, I believe it - 'Praise His Holy Name!

Thank God for His grace or we would have no hope at all.

[Mike Mclees]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 8:44 AM, Adstar said:

Have you ceased from all sin? 

If no then your second statement is condemning you as a person who never really believed in the LORD at all..

Have you ceased from all sin. Are you walking in perfection? If not then you are wrong and he has spoken correctly

[Adstar]

10 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

Have you ceased from all sin. Are you walking in perfection? If not then you are wrong and he has spoken correctly

Nope.. Perfection comes when we are resurrected and transformed into the perfect beings that we shall be in eternity..

But on this side of death we are ""deemed"" perfect because our sins are being covered by the blood of the LORD Jesus Christ..

 

[JohnD]

On 4/11/2018 at 4:27 AM, Debp said:

If we truly have believed on the Lord Jesus as our personal Savior, we seek to walk with Him....walk in a godly manner in our daily life.   There might be times that we do slip and fall...however, if we really know the Lord, we are sorry for any sins and will confess them and seek to forsake the sins.  Because to sin causes grief in our hearts as believers.

If a person continually walks in a sinful lifestyle, then I would think that person never really believed in the Lord at all.   Perhaps they only had a head knowledge of the faith?

Moses was a murder.

David was too.

Peter denied Jesus Christ.

Paul persecuted Christians.

Solomon had 300 wives and 600 concubines AND built pagan temples in the Holy Land.

Now the case can be made that these are examples of past sins while (according to your statement) they never really believed... but later changed...

Or we can stop judging God's grace as unable to deal with sin of all kinds as the Bible says it can and does.

I live by the biblical understanding that Grace is complete and it is final.

We cannot keep the Law of God, but in the effort to strive to do so we spare ourselves and others a world of grief... but our heavenly destination is not affected one way or the other.

Yet people continually state that this is what I have found in my life that works and you all should too and if you don't... well you must not be Christians... 

1. either they are standing in judgement of Grace

2. they don't really know what Grace actually is 

John 3:16-18

Ephesians 2:8-10

11 John 1:5 - 1 John 2:17

1 Corinthians 1:17–31 (AV)
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

 

[discipler777]

9 hours ago, JohnD said:

We cannot keep the Law of God, but in the effort to strive to do so we spare ourselves and others a world of grief... but our heavenly destination is not affected one way or the other.

.

Matthew 19:16-21 says that it was possible for the Jews to keep the Law of God. Those Christians who falsely believe that they cannot keep the Law and so wilfully "Go and sin some more"(cf John 5:14 & 8:11) may lose their salvation by losing faith in God/Jesus while suffering for their wilful or intentional sins/evil-works/law-breaking.(1Cor 5:1-5 & 11:30 & 6:9-11, 1John 5:16-17, Job 2:9)

The Parable of the Sower at Matthew 13 says that Christians can lose salvation by renouncing their faith in Jesus/God during times of persecution and tribulations/wars.(cf Matthew 10:33 - the denying of Christ) 1Timothy 4:1 says that Christians can depart from the faith by heeding deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 2Timothy 4:7 says that Christians need to hold on to their salvation by keeping the faith until the very end.

.

Leviticus 4:2 and Hebrews 10:26-31 say that unintentional sins can be atoned for(= no need to suffer the curses of God) but intentional or wilful sins cannot be atoned for(= have to suffer the curses/judgment of God but could still be healed or delivered by God/Jesus). Both sins need to be repented of before being atoned for or forgiven by God = not to be intentionally repeated.

King David repented of intentional murder and adultery, was atoned/forgiven by God(= not executed by God) but his sons had to suffer the consequences of his sins(= were killed by God) In comparison, the rich young Jewish man of Luke 16:19-32 ended up in hell/hades or not saved because he broke the Law at Deuteronomy 15:11 by not doing charity work towards beggar Lazarus during every Sabbath/7th Year, he did not repent and seek forgiveness from God.

Fallen Man's inherited Adam's Original Sin is an unintentional sin and can be atoned for - by the blood of Jesus Christ = those who repented and have faith in Jesus Christ will be saved from hell.(Leviticus 17:11, Hebrews 9:22, Romans 5:12, John 3:14-18)

Acts 15:24-29 & 21:20-25 permit Gentile Christians to only keep God's Law/commandments which are not a burden to them, eg no need to be circumcised but need to keep laws against sexual immorality. Otherwise, the curses/judgment of God will follow.

Edited October 30, 2018 by discipler777