IDOLATRY

[Patrick Miron]

18 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

There is a difference, the Lord did not asked them to worship any images of angels. 

And the Lord God could not be in their homes in the form of an idol and be worship , the worship of the Lord it was done only in the Temple, with the priest, the people remained outside of the Holy Place......

This is why if they had to offer I thing a burned sacrifice or do some inquiries they were looking for a priest who had an ephode......

This is why Jesus said: the truth worshipers shall worship in spirit and in truth. This could happened only after the death of JESUS CHRIST. 

Because as Paul explained that we are the Temple of God. 

The Catholics may not have the images of strange creatures to bow down as the idolaters did. 

They have the images of the Saint's, they are their patron saint, and they call upon their name for anything they need, 

This is spiritually unhealthy, and they are misguided. 

And they are missing out in many blessings, and the have given them selfs to strange doctrines.

Jesus never said that we need someone else to pray for us to have our sins forgiven. 

The bow down to status and some time strange status, how to you know if a strange spirit has not taken control of this statute and vexes with deceptive masages the people, to have devotes, and most of the time if not all with threats, of bad luck or sickness. 

If you are in a situation like that get out. Turn only to Jesus, all we need is JESUS CHRIST. 

I have Catholic relatives, they believe in Jesus CHRIST they celebrate Easter with the most deep devotion. 

They belong to JESUS CHRIST, they are not lost. They are saved.

Sometimes I think I disturbed them, then I better leave them alone, and joing them when they make the Cross, if not they made pray for me and my sins, they see it as a sin. 

I learned from Paul, if they are vegetarians, eat vegetables when you are with them, or don't go there.

But then you have both weddings and other celebrations you want to be with them , like EASTER, 

Happy Easter to you to, blessings 

 

[1] There is a difference, the Lord did not asked them to worship any images of angels. 

[2] And the Lord God could not be in their homes in the form of an idol and be worship , the worship of the Lord it was done only in the Temple, with the priest, the people remained outside of the Holy Place......

[3] This is why if they had to offer I thing a burned sacrifice or do some inquiries they were looking for a priest who had an ephode......

[4] This is why Jesus said: the truth worshipers shall worship in spirit and in truth. This could happened only after the death of JESUS CHRIST. 

[5] Because as Paul explained that we are the Temple of God. 

[6] The Catholics may not have the images of strange creatures to bow down as the idolaters did. 

[6] They have the images of the Saint's, they are their patron saint, and they call upon their name for anything they need, 

[6] This is spiritually unhealthy, and they are misguided. 

[7] And they are missing out in many blessings, and the have given them selfs to strange doctrines.

[8] Jesus never said that we need someone else to pray for us to have our sins forgiven. 

[6] The bow down to status and some time strange status, how to you know if a strange spirit has not taken control of this statute and vexes with deceptive masages the people, to have devotes, and most of the time if not all with threats, of bad luck or sickness. 

If you are in a situation like that get out. Turn only to Jesus, all we need is JESUS CHRIST. 

[9] I have Catholic relatives, they believe in Jesus CHRIST they celebrate Easter with the most deep devotion. 

[9] They belong to JESUS CHRIST, they are not lost. They are saved.

[10] Sometimes I think I disturbed them, then I better leave them alone, and joing them when they make the Cross, if not they made pray for me and my sins, they see it as a sin. 

[11] I learned from Paul, if they are vegetarians, eat vegetables when you are with them, or don't go there.

[12]But then you have both weddings and other celebrations you want to be with them , like EASTER, 

[13] Happy Easter to you to, blessings

LONG REPLIES OFTEN REQUIRE LONGER REPLIES

I AM NUMBERING YOUR POINTS AS TO RESPOND TO ALL PF THEM AND TO PERMIT EASIRE FOLLOWING ALONG.

[1] There is a difference, the Lord did not asked them to worship any images of angels. 

OK, I’m not sure it was explicit; BUT the Jews DID worship the Ark of the covenant {angels and all}

[2] And the Lord God could not be in their homes in the form of an idol and be worship , the worship of the Lord it was done only in the Temple, with the priest, the people remained outside of the Holy Place......

My FRIEND please read my prior POST –REPLY where I evidenced that we Catholics reserve “WORSHIP” to and FOR God alone. Mary and the Saints are “venerated: and “reverenced”; NOT the same thing. Further when we pray “to” Mary & or a Saint; we are REALLY praying “THROUGH” them to GOD. It’s called “intercessory prayer.”

Catholics do understand that all prayers are to and DO end with God.

WHY do Catholics Do this when it’s not in the Bible?

Because doing so is beneficial to us through Grace. Here’s what happens and WHY.

Catholics hold to a philosophy termed “THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS”. This “communion” is viewed as being a “family.” It consist of all those in heaven; all those in Purgatory {in route to heaven}, and all those of us Catholics still on planet earth… Like most families we desire, and are able to help each other. Here’s how we CAN do so.

Catholics on earth can {and do} pray THROUGH those Souls in heaven and even those in Purgatory {all of whom ARE Heaven-Bound}. We aren’t actually praying “to” them; BUT THROUGH them to God.

Because the Souls in Heaven ARE in the Presence of God; they accept our petitions; then add their own ON TOP of ours and personally present them to God; thus making them more effective {efficaous}.

Souls in Purgatory {yes I understand you don’t believe in purgatory, but that is a separate conversation {let me know if you wish to discuss it?} can be assisted by those on earth who pray to God on their behalf. We can also do good works to lessen their time there.

Soul’s in Heave can pray for those of us on earth {but not those in purgatory.}

[3] This is why if they had to offer I thing a burned sacrifice or do some inquiries they were looking for a priest who had an ephode......

They “did burnt offerings” as COMMANDED by God. Keep in  mind this was a people just learning about ONE-God; and God was weaning them from pagan their accustomed-worship of many-gods. So the smoke from the burnt -offering acceded upward to heaven {visibly to GOD}; enhancing their understanding of ONE God and there command to WORSHIP Him who was in Heaven.

[4] This is why Jesus said: the truth worshipers shall worship in spirit and in truth. This could happened only after the death of JESUS CHRIST. 

Jesus ALSO said: John.10: 30 “I and the Father are one."

So actually it could and DID happen also in the OT times. The Verse before this one teaches:  John 4:23-24 “John.4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

 

Because God is ONE {Triune}; they were worshiping the SAME God as do we. The difference is significant for many reasons; but nevertheless it was and IS the same God. In both the OT and NT times Jesus was the Son Of God. The difference was that the TRINITY was not widely clearly- taught in the OT times

[5] Because as Paul explained that we are the Temple of God. 

1Cor.6:19 “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own”

Pau’s message here is that our BODIES {and hence us} are the GOD’S Temple} and therefore they are to be kept pure; we ARE to avoid sinning.

[6] The Catholics may not have the images of strange creatures to bow down as the idolaters did. 

[6] They have the images of the Saint's, they are their patron saint, and they call upon their name for anything they need, 

[6] This is spiritually unhealthy, and they are misguided. 

Please reread my REPLY #2 which addresses this precise issue which you do not fully comprehend the Catholic position on.

A “patron saint” is one whom we are NAMED after. My name is Patrick Joseph so Saints Patrick & Joseph are MY “patron saints.” Other saints to whom we choose to pray are those who by their lives have a specialty for which they are best known: Saint Anthony for example is the Saint “of Miracles.”

[7] And they are missing out in many blessings, and the have given them selfs to strange doctrines.

Actually the exact opposite is closer to the truth. By praying to and THROUGH Mary and the Saints we actually are OFFERED more graces as they ADD their own petitions on-top of ours adding to their efficaous worth.  

[8] Jesus never said that we need someone else to pray for us to have our sins forgiven. 

CORRECT; Jesus never did SAY that. However in the transfer of His Godly Powers and Authority {in a more limited manner} Mt. 16: 15-19, Mt 10: 1-2, 7-8; Jn.17: 17-19; Mt 28:18-20; Jesus empowers His RCC directly, precisely and exclusively to teach the World ALL that He had {taught} commanded THEM;  Mt. 28:18-20 and gives Peter and by absolute necessity those following him ALL the necessary authority to whatever is deemed best or beneficial to the Salvation of Souls. Jn. 21: 13-17

 [9] I have Catholic relatives, they believe in Jesus CHRIST they celebrate Easter with the most deep devotion. 

[9] They belong to JESUS CHRIST, they are not lost. They are saved.

THANK YOU! Many non-Catholic-Christians would in error disagree with you. However we Catholics belief “that we ARE Saved” & are STILL in the Process of being saved, as life {all of it} is THEE God Test, Isa.43: 7 &21

[10] Sometimes I think I disturbed them, then I better leave them alone, and joing them when they make the Cross, if not they made pray for me and my sins, they see it as a sin. 

I could {and have} done Lessons on the meaning of the Sign of the Cross.

When done reverently it is a source of grace; and recalls CHRIST Passion, and Resurrection.

I’m not sure what you mean “they see “it” as a sin?

[11] I learned from Paul, if they are vegetarians, eat vegetables when you are with them, or don't go there.

Good point and a good practice so long as it does not contradict YOUR beliefs

[12]But then you have both weddings and other celebrations you want to be with them , like EASTER, 

[13] Happy Easter to you to, blessings

And no doubt you are welcomed and wanted.

Easter Blessings my new friend,

Patrick

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

[1] There is a difference, the Lord did not asked them to worship any images of angels. 

[2] And the Lord God could not be in their homes in the form of an idol and be worship , the worship of the Lord it was done only in the Temple, with the priest, the people remained outside of the Holy Place......

[3] This is why if they had to offer I thing a burned sacrifice or do some inquiries they were looking for a priest who had an ephode......

[4] This is why Jesus said: the truth worshipers shall worship in spirit and in truth. This could happened only after the death of JESUS CHRIST. 

[5] Because as Paul explained that we are the Temple of God. 

[6] The Catholics may not have the images of strange creatures to bow down as the idolaters did. 

[6] They have the images of the Saint's, they are their patron saint, and they call upon their name for anything they need, 

[6] This is spiritually unhealthy, and they are misguided. 

[7] And they are missing out in many blessings, and the have given them selfs to strange doctrines.

[8] Jesus never said that we need someone else to pray for us to have our sins forgiven. 

[6] The bow down to status and some time strange status, how to you know if a strange spirit has not taken control of this statute and vexes with deceptive masages the people, to have devotes, and most of the time if not all with threats, of bad luck or sickness. 

If you are in a situation like that get out. Turn only to Jesus, all we need is JESUS CHRIST. 

[9] I have Catholic relatives, they believe in Jesus CHRIST they celebrate Easter with the most deep devotion. 

[9] They belong to JESUS CHRIST, they are not lost. They are saved.

[10] Sometimes I think I disturbed them, then I better leave them alone, and joing them when they make the Cross, if not they made pray for me and my sins, they see it as a sin. 

[11] I learned from Paul, if they are vegetarians, eat vegetables when you are with them, or don't go there.

[12]But then you have both weddings and other celebrations you want to be with them , like EASTER, 

[13] Happy Easter to you to, blessings

LONG REPLIES OFTEN REQUIRE LONGER REPLIES

I AM NUMBERING YOUR POINTS AS TO RESPOND TO ALL PF THEM AND TO PERMIT EASIRE FOLLOWING ALONG.

[1] There is a difference, the Lord did not asked them to worship any images of angels. 

OK, I’m not sure it was explicit; BUT the Jews DID worship the Ark of the covenant {angels and all}

[2] And the Lord God could not be in their homes in the form of an idol and be worship , the worship of the Lord it was done only in the Temple, with the priest, the people remained outside of the Holy Place......

My FRIEND please read my prior POST –REPLY where I evidenced that we Catholics reserve “WORSHIP” to and FOR God alone. Mary and the Saints are “venerated: and “reverenced”; NOT the same thing. Further when we pray “to” Mary & or a Saint; we are REALLY praying “THROUGH” them to GOD. It’s called “intercessory prayer.”

Catholics do understand that all prayers are to and DO end with God.

WHY do Catholics Do this when it’s not in the Bible?

Because doing so is beneficial to us through Grace. Here’s what happens and WHY.

Catholics hold to a philosophy termed “THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS”. This “communion” is viewed as being a “family.” It consist of all those in heaven; all those in Purgatory {in route to heaven}, and all those of us Catholics still on planet earth… Like most families we desire, and are able to help each other. Here’s how we CAN do so.

Catholics on earth can {and do} pray THROUGH those Souls in heaven and even those in Purgatory {all of whom ARE Heaven-Bound}. We aren’t actually praying “to” them; BUT THROUGH them to God.

Because the Souls in Heaven ARE in the Presence of God; they accept our petitions; then add their own ON TOP of ours and personally present them to God; thus making them more effective {efficaous}.

Souls in Purgatory {yes I understand you don’t believe in purgatory, but that is a separate conversation {let me know if you wish to discuss it?} can be assisted by those on earth who pray to God on their behalf. We can also do good works to lessen their time there.

Soul’s in Heave can pray for those of us on earth {but not those in purgatory.}

[3] This is why if they had to offer I thing a burned sacrifice or do some inquiries they were looking for a priest who had an ephode......

They “did burnt offerings” as COMMANDED by God. Keep in  mind this was a people just learning about ONE-God; and God was weaning them from pagan their accustomed-worship of many-gods. So the smoke from the burnt -offering acceded upward to heaven {visibly to GOD}; enhancing their understanding of ONE God and there command to WORSHIP Him who was in Heaven.

[4] This is why Jesus said: the truth worshipers shall worship in spirit and in truth. This could happened only after the death of JESUS CHRIST. 

Jesus ALSO said: John.10: 30 “I and the Father are one."

So actually it could and DID happen also in the OT times. The Verse before this one teaches:  John 4:23-24 “John.4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

 

Because God is ONE {Triune}; they were worshiping the SAME God as do we. The difference is significant for many reasons; but nevertheless it was and IS the same God. In both the OT and NT times Jesus was the Son Of God. The difference was that the TRINITY was not widely clearly- taught in the OT times

[5] Because as Paul explained that we are the Temple of God. 

1Cor.6:19 “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own”

Pau’s message here is that our BODIES {and hence us} are the GOD’S Temple} and therefore they are to be kept pure; we ARE to avoid sinning.

[6] The Catholics may not have the images of strange creatures to bow down as the idolaters did. 

[6] They have the images of the Saint's, they are their patron saint, and they call upon their name for anything they need, 

[6] This is spiritually unhealthy, and they are misguided. 

Please reread my REPLY #2 which addresses this precise issue which you do not fully comprehend the Catholic position on.

A “patron saint” is one whom we are NAMED after. My name is Patrick Joseph so Saints Patrick & Joseph are MY “patron saints.” Other saints to whom we choose to pray are those who by their lives have a specialty for which they are best known: Saint Anthony for example is the Saint “of Miracles.”

[7] And they are missing out in many blessings, and the have given them selfs to strange doctrines.

Actually the exact opposite is closer to the truth. By praying to and THROUGH Mary and the Saints we actually are OFFERED more graces as they ADD their own petitions on-top of ours adding to their efficaous worth.  

[8] Jesus never said that we need someone else to pray for us to have our sins forgiven. 

CORRECT; Jesus never did SAY that. However in the transfer of His Godly Powers and Authority {in a more limited manner} Mt. 16: 15-19, Mt 10: 1-2, 7-8; Jn.17: 17-19; Mt 28:18-20; Jesus empowers His RCC directly, precisely and exclusively to teach the World ALL that He had {taught} commanded THEM;  Mt. 28:18-20 and gives Peter and by absolute necessity those following him ALL the necessary authority to whatever is deemed best or beneficial to the Salvation of Souls. Jn. 21: 13-17

 [9] I have Catholic relatives, they believe in Jesus CHRIST they celebrate Easter with the most deep devotion. 

[9] They belong to JESUS CHRIST, they are not lost. They are saved.

THANK YOU! Many non-Catholic-Christians would in error disagree with you. However we Catholics belief “that we ARE Saved” & are STILL in the Process of being saved, as life {all of it} is THEE God Test, Isa.43: 7 &21

[10] Sometimes I think I disturbed them, then I better leave them alone, and joing them when they make the Cross, if not they made pray for me and my sins, they see it as a sin. 

I could {and have} done Lessons on the meaning of the Sign of the Cross.

When done reverently it is a source of grace; and recalls CHRIST Passion, and Resurrection.

I’m not sure what you mean “they see “it” as a sin?

[11] I learned from Paul, if they are vegetarians, eat vegetables when you are with them, or don't go there.

Good point and a good practice so long as it does not contradict YOUR beliefs

[12]But then you have both weddings and other celebrations you want to be with them , like EASTER, 

[13] Happy Easter to you to, blessings

And no doubt you are welcomed and wanted.

Easter Blessings my new friend,

Patrick

Hello brother Patrick,

Thank you for  the time you took to explain some things, well taken. 

I understand that you are ready to go on evangelization mission to a people that never heard the Gospel before and so am I. 

It won't be easy for you to introduce them to the Saints, I am wondering how are you going to do it.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Your closest friendnt

[MorningGlory]

10 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

I dear friend in Christ Jesus our LORD.

Your eye's deceive you. {the photo's of Catholics praying THROUGH Mary and the Saints....

You see what YOU want to see and wish to be true; NOT what is actually taking place.

 

FROM OUR CATHOLIC CATECHISM

2135 "You shall worship the Lord your God" (Mt 4:10). Adoring God, praying to him, offering him the worship that belongs to him, fulfilling the promises and vows made to him are acts of the virtue of religion which fall under obedience to the first commandment.

 

2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them." God, however, is the "living God" who gives life and intervenes in history.

 

2105 The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ." By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live." The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.

 

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon." Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast" refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God

 

1192 Sacred images in our churches and homes are intended to awaken and nourish our faith in the mystery of Christ. Through the icon of Christ and his works of salvation, it is he whom we adore. Through sacred images of the holy Mother of God, of the angels and of the saints, we venerate the persons represented.

 

Catholic-“WORSHIP” is reserved to GOD alone!

 

 “Veneration” and or “Reverencing” ARE the correct TERMS for Catholics and Mary and the Saints. My friend, if you’d like to know WHY we Catholics do this; please ask and I’ll explain it. IN THE MEAN TIME God would appreciate your stopping SLANDERING His Church.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

 

You can say this as often as you'd like and you may even believe it but I know Catholics personally and they DO have statues of Mary in their homes, they DO pray to her for intercession and they DO pray the rosary beads.  They also pray to various saints and attend confession where they believe they receive forgiveness from a priest.  All of this is FACT and there is no denying what any of us can observe with out own eyes.  God won't mind me telling the truth, Patrick.  That's what He's all about.

[Your closest friendnt]

In every religious order , there always the moderates , conservatives, liberals, the extremist and those who have been carried away , the very sensitive and the uninterested. 

The Catholics are not idolaters. 

When you meet the real idolaters you will know the difference. 

The Catholics have faith in Jesus Christ=eternal life. 

As long as we believe we are in Jesus Christ=eternal life. 

On the principal of faith not personal standing. 

We recieved the scriptures preserved for centuries from saved people, 

And our parents or grandparents who one time in the past were Catholics , teach their children the faith of JESUS CHRIST, they were saved. Saved in the Catholic culture . 

If you want to empasizes on the biblical way, the apostolic way that's another mater.

Then Jesus knew he invaded cultures, and asked his disciples to give them the Gospel as they were. 

It was Jesus job what to do with them and how to guide them from that time on. 

And he knew he will meet different minds, and the people will split in diferent groups, with their own interpretation like as it happened at the Tower od Babylon. 

They tried to go to God, when God plan to come down to them, and redeemed them first with his blood before he can take them up to be with him. 

They wanded to be with him in their own way, they were in a harry.

 

 

 

[Patrick Miron]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:37 AM, MorningGlory said:

You can say this as often as you'd like and you may even believe it but I know Catholics personally and they DO have statues of Mary in their homes, they DO pray to her for intercession and they DO pray the rosary beads.  They also pray to various saints and attend confession where they believe they receive forgiveness from a priest.  All of this is FACT and there is no denying what any of us can observe with out own eyes.  God won't mind me telling the truth, Patrick.  That's what He's all about.

My Friend, I explained the Intercessory prayers component in my prior POST. I too have statues and pray the Rosary daily. 

Now for the going to priest for forgiveness comment:

Are YOU aware my new friend that Jesus was not inventing this practice {actually He dis as part of the Triune God head}; that this was an OT God imposed action?

Exod. 28 Verse 1 "Then bring near to you Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the people of Israel, to serve me as priests -- Aaron and Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abi'hu, Elea'zar and Ith'ama

Lev.5 Verses 16 to 18 "[16] He shall also make restitution for what he has done amiss in the holy thing, and shall add a fifth to it and give it to the priest; and the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering, and he shall be forgiven. [17] "If any one sins, doing any of the things which the LORD has commanded not to be done, though he does not know it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity. [18] He shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish out of the flock, valued by you at the price for a guilt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for him for the error which he committed unwittingly, and he shall be forgiven

1. That was THEN; this is NOW in the words and BY the COMMAND of Jesus; our God:

 

John.20 Verses 19 to 23 [19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said TO THEM"Peace be with YOU." 
[20] When he had said this, he showed THEM his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. [21] Jesus said TO THEM again, "Peace be with YOU. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."  {LITERALLY: SEE Mt. 10:1-2}... [22] And when he had said this, he breathed ON THEM and said TO THEM "Receive the Holy Spirit. [23] If YOU forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if YOU retain the sins of any, they are retained." 

So my friend; {sorry about the BOLD I can't turn it off}; if Jesus {God} did not intend this to be in his Bible; what is it here? If this is NOT how Jesus command our sins be forgiven; WHY does He issue this COMMAND?

 

 

 

2 Tim.3: [16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"

 

And are ware of this also?

1 John 5: 16-17 "16] He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask, and life shall be given to him, who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death: for that I say not that any man ask. [17] All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death. {Speaking here of Mortal sin & Spiritual death.} 

So your articulation is NOT biblically; or for that matter; God grounded.

The RCC is doing precisely what She is commanded and empowered to do. Amen!

Easter Blessings, and thanks for your POST,

Patrick