The Erosion of Truth is Now Upon Us

[Wayne222]

10 minutes ago, Yowm said:

 

@frienduff thaylorde Why are you addressing me? I was the one confronted by another (see above) a post that you gave a 'Worthy' approval to.

Besides, if you had actually been reading my posts, they have nothing to do with your 'rebuke', they had to do with the difference of the Gospel to sinners (justification) not the exhortations to Holy living (sanctification).

But I know the game, next I'll be accused of teaching Christians can do anything they like. Talk about 'not this again'

Yes you will be told stop fighting against holiness lol. I think its to shut you up so they can use worthy forum to teach wrong ideas about salvation. But its good to open this up to expose it. I am for holiness and godliness. I use to study Jerry Bridges books.

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

My objection is that some are confusing justification with sanctification and by doing so end up mixing our works with thee Work of Christ. 

Your manna comment was plainly silly. Yes there is growth, but we must grow on the One Foundation, Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Those who leave that foundation (even as older Christians) end up in the wilderness eating imaginary manna. You can follow clouds if you want, I'll follow the Rock.  

Remember, the Spirit's work is to point us to Jesus not vice-versa.

I really and truly do not understand what you are objecting too brother.  I'm sure you don't believe that we should preach/teach/encourage UN-holiness.......no.......so then we preach/teach/encourage holiness, righteousness, obedience, good works.....that is what Jesus and the apostles taught.  Or should everyone say nothing at all.....but I don't think you can mean that either.

[Wayne222]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

What is ironic is even though you are accused of being RC, you sound more protestant than your accusers lol.

I am protestant lol. I am a fan of the white horse inn. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

Sigh. I've written sufficiently on it on this thread. If you see yourself as saying the same thing, why did you initiate the objection?

Yowm I tried to delete this since I said I wouldn't answer for anyone else . but since I don't know how to do so,   at least be happy that you all agree.

OH and praise the LORD .    

[Wayne222]

19 minutes ago, Butero said:

All I know is that the Bible says in 1 Peter 1:15,16  "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation,  Because it is written, Be ye holy, for I am holy."  

We are commanded to be holy.  This verse stands out in my mind because I once preached a message for a Pastor friend of mine on the topic, "Be Ye Holy."  That was at a Freewill Baptist Church.  To this day, that is what he remembers me for is that message.  I think he has even preached on it himself since then.  

We are commanded to be holy in our conversation, which means in our behavior.  How can you do this when you are already made holy?  By choosing to walk in holiness rather than after the flesh.  Folks, we either believe the whole council of God's Word or we do not.  We can't just take our favorite scriptures out of places like Galatians and ignore passages like this.  You get an unbalanced message, just like I can create an unbalanced message the other way if I never talk of God's grace.  

Now it sees your twisting what is said. You said we are ignoring passages that call for holiness. No one has ignore them. But walking in holiness is something a saved person does. Its not how to be saved. Now that we trusted christs finish work lets walk in holiness and godliness. Lets run the race set before us. Lets look at jesus the finisher of our faith. Amen.

[Gideon]

59 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Now it sees your twisting what is said. You said we are ignoring passages that call for holiness. No one has ignore them. But walking in holiness is something a saved person does. Its not how to be saved. Now that we trusted christs finish work lets walk in holiness and godliness. Lets run the race set before us. Lets look at jesus the finisher of our faith. Amen.

Here is what is being missed. We are either walking in the flesh, or walking in the Spirit. There is simply no middle ground. We do not slowly convert the old nature into the  new one over years of time, believing no one can actually fully succeed but that our goal is to do our best.

How do we know which one we are in? Easy.

They that are walking in the Spirit do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

As hard as that is to hear, it is truth. And if we are walking in the flesh, our old nature, then try as we might, we will find that sin will continue  to rear its ugly head, time and again. Our old nature, try as it might, cannot love God with the whole heart, because part of us loves US. And we certainly cannot love our neighbor. Oh, we can make a good show of it if it is a friend, but let an enemy cross us seven times, let alone seventy times seven, and we will quickly finally agree. Agape love is possible only if we no longer live and Christ now lives IN us. That, guys, is a man in his new nature. And here are the two hard truths no one wants to hear. But hear we must. 

1) They that are in the flesh cannot please God. CANNOT.

2) Nothing profits but a new nature.

If we are on the flesh, we are living in Romans 7. To will is present with us. We want to obey. We want to love God with all of our hearts. We just can’t. Our rebellious self-centered nature is simply not capable of it. We need new natures that CAN obey. Listen. If we are true sheep, we possess new natures, every  single one of us. BUT, here is the deal. They must be put on. They do us no good if they are left in our closets, and as well, if we do not, we leave ourselves open to the attacks and accusations of the enemy like sitting ducks.

But there is something that must  happen first before we can put them on. We must put off our old ones. And to do that, we must possess the same mentality that Paul possessed in Romans 7. We must HATE the pride filled and rebellious us. . And why? Because it is our carnal nature that is not subject to God. It will not bow the knee. It cannot be caused to obey. It will not abdicate the throne of our lives, for it worships it most prized possession...free will.... rather than God’s will.  And it constantly is producing bad fruit. Most importantly, the old nature we were all born with cannot ever become truly sanctified, set apart, and able to walk holy before our God. 

Whether we can see it right now, the church is a mess. And because we either do not know how to walk in holiness, or in some cases, have no desire to do so, we have lowered the standard of what it is to be a Christian. What is the standard? 

“Let ALL who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

And when that finally dawns on us, amd fear grips our hearts that we could indeed miss Heaven and have taken away from us that which God has entrusted to us, and we try harder and harder to get control over our fleshly nature and make it obey, and fail and fail again, we finally realize that we need a new level of grace, grace that teaches us the HOW of holiness.

Listen. It is not hard. In fact it is amazingly easy. Why? It is God who does the changing! The hard part is coming to the point in our attempts to actually  walk truly pleasing to Him that we realize that unless we get a miracle and are really made new inside, we will never get free of our self nature and we will never be able to truly please Him.

The enemy of our soul wants more than anything to continue hiding this truth from us. But praise God, He will not leave us healed only slightly. As the days darken and wickedness increases, the church will awake and light her lamp,and shine forth to a world that needs to know we are not church buildings and Sunday School and pot luck suppers, all dressed in our Sunday finery. . We are destined to be overcomers in these last days. And how will we do that? We will finally take the blood of the lamb and combine it with the words of OUR testimony as to what it accomplished IN US through both the death AND the resurrection of Christ. 

We ARE new creatures. And it is time to put on our robes of righteousness so that the shame of our nakedness no longer is what we are trying to pass off as the best God can do.  And when we do, the world will be amazed. Some will fear us. Some will marvel at the love we have one for anorher. And yes, some will pick up stones to silence us. This is our future. We may run from it for a time, and come up with all sorts of reasons why it is not so, but it will not go away. The valley of decision looms for each one of us, and there is no escaping. 

i pray we get this. We are not our own. We never were. Once we were the servants to sin, but Jesus redeemed us and bought us out of satan’s  hand with His blood. He OWNs us, and asks us to let Him fully reign over us, so that He can love us, protect us and transform us. We will either serve sin or serve Him, but the middle ground we have all thought is Christianity will soon evaporate before our very eyes. It is time for some serious heart examination. The question is.... will we? 

Blessings, 

Gideon

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Gideon

[Wayne222]

29 minutes ago, Butero said:

I wasn't referring to you, so I couldn't have been twisting what you said.  

Well you still inplied people are only using part of the scriptures. Not true at all. Holiness is speaking honest.

[Wayne222]

3 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Here is what is being missed. We are either walking in the flesh, or walking in the Spirit. There is simply no middle ground. We do not slowly convert the old nature into the  new one over years of time, believing no one can actually fully succeed but that our goal is to do our best.

How do we know which one we are in? Easy.

They that are walking in the Spirit do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

As hard as that is to hear, it is truth. And if we are walking in the flesh, our old nature, then try as we might, we will find that sin will continue  to rear its ugly head, time and again. Our old nature, try as it might, cannot love God with the whole heart, because part of us loves US. And we certainly cannot love our neighbor. Oh, we can make a good show of it if it is a friend, but let an enemy cross us seven times, let alone seventy times seven, and we will quickly finally agree. Agape love is possible only if we no longer live and Christ now lives IN us. That, guys, is a man in his new nature. And here are the two hard truths no one wants to hear. But hear we must. 

1) They that are in the flesh cannot please God. CANNOT.

2) Nothing profits but a new nature.

If we are on the flesh, we are living in Romans 7. To will is present with us. We want to obey. We want to love God with all of our hearts. We just can’t. Our rebellious self-centered nature is simply not capable of it. We need new natures that CAN obey. Listen. If we are true sheep, we possess new natures, every  single one of us. BUT, here is the deal. They must be put on. They do us no good if they are left in our closets, and as well, if we do not, we leave ourselves open to the attacks and accusations of the enemy like sitting ducks.

But there is something that must  happen first before we can put them on. We must put off our old ones. And to do that, we must possess the same mentality that Paul possessed in Romans 7. We must HATE the pride filled and rebellious us. . And why? Because it is our carnal nature that is not subject to God. It will not bow the knee. It cannot be caused to obey. It will not abdicate the throne of our lives, for it worships it most prized possession...free will.... rather than God’s will.  And it constantly is producing bad fruit. Most importantly, the old nature we were all born with cannot ever become truly sanctified, set apart, and able to walk holy before our God. 

Whether we can see it right now, the church is a mess. And because we either do not know how to walk in holiness, or in some cases, have no desire to do so, we have lowered the standard of what it is to be a Christian. What is the standard? 

“Let ALL who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

And when that finally dawns on us, amd fear grips our hearts that we could indeed miss Heaven and have taken away from us that which God has entrusted to us, and we try harder and harder to get control over our fleshly nature and make it obey, and fail and fail again, we finally realize that we need a new level of grace, grace that teaches us the HOW of holiness.

Listen. It is not hard. In fact it is amazingly easy. Why? It is God who does the changing! The hard part is coming to the point in our attempts to actually  walk truly pleasing to Him that we realize that unless we get a miracle and are really made new inside, we will never get free of our self nature and we will never be able to truly please Him.

The enemy of our soul wants more than anything to continue hiding this truth from us. But praise God, He will not leave us healed only slightly. As the days darken and wickedness increases, the church will awake and light her lamp,and shine forth to a world that needs to know we are not church buildings and Sunday School and pot luck suppers, all dressed in our Sunday finery. . We are destined to be overcomers in these last days. And how will we do that? We will finally take the blood of the lamb and combine it with the words of OUR testimony as to what it accomplished IN US through both the death AND the resurrection of Christ. 

We ARE new creatures. And it is time to put on our robes of righteousness so that the shame of our nakedness no longer is what we are trying to pass off as the best God can do.  And when we do, the world will be amazed. Some will fear us. Some will marvel at the love we have one for anorher. And yes, some will pick up stones to silence us. This is our future. We may run from it for a time, and come up with all sorts of reasons why it is not so, but it will not go away. The valley of decision looms for each one of us, and there is no escaping. 

i pray we get this. We are not our own. We never were. Once we were the servants to sin, but Jesus redeemed us and bought us out of satan’s  hand with His blood. He OWNs us, and asks us to let Him fully reign over us, so that He can love us, protect us and transform us. We will either serve sin or serve Him, but the middle ground we have all thought is Christianity will soon evaporate before our very eyes. It is time for some serious heart examination. The question is.... will we? 

Blessings, 

Gideon

 

 

 

I find you off the mark in your comments. Either your born again or not. We should always walk in the spirit. But no one does 100 percent . Thats why we are call to prayer and watching. We are called to fasting and paul said he made his flesh under his control. Most of all the joy of the lord is our strengh. Walking by our joy in our fellowship voes a long way in holiness. 

[Gideon]

6 hours ago, Giller said:

Heb 3:1
(1)  Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
 

Even though we are made holy through Christ and his finished work, there are also holy deeds which follow proper faith in Christ.

2Pe 3:11
(11)  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
 

1Pe 1:15-16
(15)  But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
(16)  Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

 

I find a lot of times, what can pop up, is two extremes, of either one equating works in and of itself as holiness, which leads someone to depend on their works to be holy, or you get the other side of the coin, which some will use the word holy as a crutch, to make an excuse for their sin.

It is like this, the ones who use it as a crutch, will often times say, I am holy through what Christ did at calvary, and they tend to avoid the deeds that follow a holy life that is centered in Christ; and there truly is  a holy life that follows if your faith is properly put in Christ.

And both these extremes actually produce self righteousness.

On one hand it is self righteousness in putting their trust in their deeds, and on the other hand it is self righteousness in them putting a claim on the cross, but with no actions that follow afterwards.

Let us not use the cross as a crutch, nor put our faith in our deeds.
 

Brother, what a wise observation. Two extremes and neither actually results in us BEING holy. This present a real dilemma for the church, because this is the exact reason why the world sees us as either religious extremists lacking love or as hypocrites using our positional standing as an excuse not to have to change.

One side is where we think we must do holy things in order to be holy. But how in the world does one DO holy things, if they are not actually holy? I tried that approach for 38 years, and in the end, although that was never my intent, I ended up in strict, lifeless legalism, serving a hard God. And as a result, I was angry at myself, frustrated beyond belief, and if I had to serve a hard demanding God, everyone else was as well. I was a real pleasure to be around! LOL. This path, if adhered to strictly enough and long enough, is a recipe for a perfect Pharisee. 

The other extreme finds those who love the grace of God, and in the beginning, think that lifting up God’s grace is the path to holiness. But as the years pass, and they remain basically the same, perhaps cleaned up outwardly a bit, but still not holy, something happens. They begin to think that because their lives, their actions, their thoughts, are not ‘holy’, they end up in the camp where positional holiness must be what God meant when He told us to BE holy, as He is holy. God becomes the God who winks at our sins. Rhey are assured that by continuing here long enough, time is the key factor, and are told to trust that God will indeed change them. The desire to obey all of the exhortations to DO anything to seek the face of God, or to obey Him, is seen as someone who is not ‘enlightened’ with their understanding of grace. And as sin hardens hearts, those in this camp eventually end up lukewarm saints. They never intended to do so, and their intentions at the beginning were to serve the Lord with all their heart, but the path they chose led to going-through-the-motions Christianity, where their faith has slowly hardened into head knowledge. And as you said, they use grace as an excuse for their sin, rather than as a cure for it. 

Two camps. Both well intended. Both wrong. Neither has ended up in truly discovering the Free Indeed Jesus promised. So what is the answer? Is there even an answer? How exactly does one become holy? It certainly is not from our determined efforts to DO holy things. And it certainly is not the result of our resting in our positional holiness with no desire to see it come to the surface in actually holy lives, where sin has been put out of the camp.

So....how? What spiritual exercises can one do to actually walk totally pleasing to God in this world? How does one purify their thought life? What technique do we use to die to self so that we can love God with ALL of our hearts? I await your thoughts, no matter which camp you currently reside in. 

Blessings, 

Gideon

 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by Gideon

[Heleadethme]

17 hours ago, Yowm said:

My objection is that some are confusing justification with sanctification and by doing so end up mixing our works with thee Work of Christ. 

Your manna comment was plainly silly. Yes there is growth, but we must grow on the One Foundation, Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Those who leave that foundation (even as older Christians) end up in the wilderness eating imaginary manna. You can follow clouds if you want, I'll follow the Rock.  

Remember, the Spirit's work is to point us to Jesus not vice-versa.

Exhorting and provoking one another unto holiness and good works.........is not confusing justification with sanctification brother.  It is just doing what the scripture SAYS to do, and what the scripture ITSELF does.  Sanctification does not come completely automatically after justification, we do have our part to play, choices to make, obedience, sowing to the spirit, praying, seeking, watching etc.  (Not to mention that we are also justified by our works....and that faith without works is dead/asleep....which has been discussed quite a bit already.)

I have to go prepare for a major ice storm where I live, so am not sure how much I'll be on-line or posting for a couple of days or so, just in case I have to be absent for a while, they are predicting some major power outages.  And Lord willing, I will share something the Lord was gracious to show me yesterday that pertains to what Gideon saw in vision, about the time of the Lord's return.  Bless you all.