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Realist

Grace and the Law of God

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13 minutes ago, Realist said:

Sorry all,  My replies with quotes are freezing my browser  and my last reply to Yowm here was just erased.  It seems I can't get a proper post out.  I don't have time to look into it today.  Take care.

I've lived through that type of 'lost long post due to erratic keyboard' disaster before.  Frustrating.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Realist said:

What makes you think I haven't ?

Because you wrote this, and your context is : how to stay SAVED.

 

""""""""I  think the easy believism teachings popular today lead people into dangerous conclusions about spiritual rest and enduring   " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13"""""

 

So, THIS that you wrote is removing Grace from God's Atonement,  and substituting self effort ("enduring") to try to prove that if you dont, then you are not going to heaven.  And people who teach this are Galatians 1:8., of which I am not.

 

Let me say this to you in the spirit of sincerity,.....  let Grace be Grace, and let the Law be the opposite, regarding how, when, why, and WHO, saved you.

Always remember that as soon as you start to attribute yourself with the capacity to keep your own eternal life, ( by enduring) (works) you have then removed the credit Do, the one who IS the Savior.

See, this is the stinking elephant in the room regarding everyone who is tripping over Grace and the "free gift of Righteousness"  trying to prove that believers can "lose it".... See,  They dont ever seem to realize that the only way you can lose your salvation, is to take it from the one who Saved you, and try to do it yourself. (which is impossible of course)..but  Glory to Hallelujah dont they give it their best shot.

And this is why 100% of the OSNAS crowd always rant about "sinning willfully" and "enduring to the end", and "holding onto your faith"....and THAT is because all of them are obsessed with self effort to make it into heaven, which, low and behold, is exactly what FAITH IN CHRIST IS NOT..

You've probably not realized it, but everyone who opposes OSAS is : Galatians 1:8.,....  as everyone who is mad to oppose the fact that the same God who Saved you, is the same God in the Flesh who keeps you saved .... These OSNAS have literally denied the Blood Atonement's power to REDEEM

So, when exactly does a believer actually come to the full revelation that they are saved and kept saved for all eternity by Christ alone.>?  =. The very second they realize that they can't lose their salvation.

Until then, they'll keep trying to keep themselves saved, which is exactly NOT trusting in Christ by Faith for Salvation and Eternal Life.

     

Philippians 1:6

 

 

B

Edited by Behold

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Behold said:

Because you wrote this, and your context is : how to stay SAVED.

 

""""""""I  think the easy believism teachings popular today lead people into dangerous conclusions about spiritual rest and enduring   " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13"""""

 

So, THIS that you wrote is removing Grace from God's Atonement,  and substituting self effort ("enduring") to try to prove that if you dont, then you are not going to heaven.  And people who teach this are Galatians 1:8., of which I am not.

 

Let me say this to you in the spirit of sincerity,.....  let Grace be Grace, and let the Law be the opposite, regarding how, when, why, and WHO, saved you.

Always remember that as soon as you start to attribute yourself with the capacity to keep your own eternal life, ( by enduring) (works) you have then removed the credit Do, the one who IS the Savior.

See, this is the stinking elephant in the room regarding everyone who is tripping over Grace and the "free gift of Righteousness"  trying to prove that believers can "lose it".... See,  They dont ever seem to realize that the only way you can lose your salvation, is to take it from the one who Saved you, and try to do it yourself. (which is impossible of course)..but  Glory to Hallelujah dont they give it their best shot.

And this is why 100% of the OSNAS crowd always rant about "sinning willfully" and "enduring to the end", and "holding onto your faith"....and THAT is because all of them are obsessed with self effort to make it into heaven, which, low and behold, is exactly what FAITH IN CHRIST IS NOT..

You've probably not realized it, but everyone who opposes OSAS is : Galatians 1:8.,....  as everyone who is mad to oppose the fact that the same God who Saved you, is the same God in the Flesh who keeps you saved .... These OSNAS have literally denied the Blood Atonement's power to REDEEM

So, when exactly does a believer actually come to the full revelation that they are saved and kept saved for all eternity by Christ alone.>?  =. The very second they realize that they can't lose their salvation.

Until then, they'll keep trying to keep themselves saved, which is exactly NOT trusting in Christ by Faith for Salvation and Eternal Life.

     

Philippians 1:6

 

 

B

Your message is well taken, 

Have you ever walk in the path of trying to earn what Jesus has allready earn for us, 

Have you ever struggled whether you are good for Heaven or not. 

Have you been tormented by visions that Jesus may tell you depart from me, I never knew you. 

Has the enemy ever wisper to you, or shout to you from the pulpit, that why bother to believe in Jesus CHRIST, if you will never be good enouph, or worthy to enter Heaven. 

Has you ever strugle, in deciding who is your everlasting Father. 

Did anyone tried to convince you that Abraham is your Father and to desired Abraham's blessings , instand of JESUS CHRIST blessings our everlasting Father, Issaiah 9: unto us a child will be born, his name is our everlasting Father. 

Or from the beginning you felt that you needed  Jesus extra robe of righteousness, did you have this joy in your heart all the time. 

Do you enter in his courts with praice and thanksgiving, did you say this is the day the Lord has made I will rejoice and be glad in it. 

Thank you 

God bless 

 

Edited by Your closest friendnt

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5 hours ago, Behold said:

Because you wrote this, and your context is : how to stay SAVED.

The context of the post means nothing of the sort.  Everything in this post was taken from the writings of Johann Arndt's  treaties  True Christianity published  1712.    This was a famous influential work  that has undergone hundreds of translations over the past several centuries.  If you have a problem with this quote " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13""""" then you have a problem with the words of Christ, James, and John;  you should also study Christ's letters to the church in the book of Revelation for understanding

After a week of reading the various posts from the multitude of "Hyper Grace" Paulinist shills on this forum and seeing the way they treat others with their self righteous ramblings,  I thought it would be interesting to borrow the writings from Arndt and gauge the response.

This christian "fight-club" reminds me of the church I left decades ago.  It's quite depressing and I will not be back.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Your message is well taken, 

Have you ever walk in the path of trying to earn what Jesus has allready earn for us, 

Have you ever struggled whether you are good for Heaven or not. 

Have you been tormented by visions that Jesus may tell you depart from me, I never knew you. 

Has the enemy ever wisper to you, or shout to you from the pulpit, that why bother to believe in Jesus CHRIST, if you will never be good enouph, or worthy to enter Heaven. 

Has you ever strugle, in deciding who is your everlasting Father. 

Did anyone tried to convince you that Abraham is your Father and to desired Abraham's blessings , instand of JESUS CHRIST blessings our everlasting Father, Issaiah 9: unto us a child will be born, his name is our everlasting Father. 

Or from the beginning you felt that you needed  Jesus extra robe of righteousness, did you have this joy in your heart all the time. 

Do you enter in his courts with praice and thanksgiving, did you say this is the day the Lord has made I will rejoice and be glad in it. 

Thank you 

God bless 

 

 

Thank you.

and  God bless you also.

I honestly dont struggle with trying to make myself "good enough", as there is no such thing, regarding anything we can do that would cause God to accept us according to our own merit.

Sometimes, an Atheist who has known you for many years might say to you...."well, I know you, I know what you were like before you got religion, and ive seen you mess up many times since you got it".

And they would add, "so, im certainly as good as you are, and if God will let you into His heaven, then im sure he'll let me in also".

But then..

Here is the problem with that darkened perspective...

Its true that an atheist might be a much better person then I will ever be, even on my best day, on my way to Church, ....but, how does the atheist compare to JESUS?

How do you compare to Jesus?

The same as I do....... = WE DONT !!!!!.

And that is the issue....as God's standard for what He will accept into HIS FAMILY, is....."the righteousness of Christ'.....and neither I, nor the Atheist, or anyone here, will ever have this, of their own accord.

So, before you are saved, or after you are saved, ....YOU, OF YOURSELF,  are not good enough, by yourself, to be worthy to go to Heaven.  And because this is the case for us all, then we hopefully will come to realize that what Gets us in the Heavenly gate, and keeps us there, has nothing to do with US.

Philippians 1:6

And once we see this, clearly, then we let go of all the earning salvation, and keeping salvation, and enduring to the end, and all this SELF EFFORT TO BE ACCEPTED BY GOD, as all of this is completely USELESS to save us OR Keep us saved.

So, you ask yourself..

"what am I trusting, if I died today, to get me into heaven".

And if your first thought is not...."JESUS"........then you have a religious issue and a theological problem that you need to solve, asap.

Edited by Behold
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Posted (edited)
On 4/15/2018 at 11:28 PM, Realist said:

The context of the post means nothing of the sort.  Everything in this post was taken from the writings of Johann Arndt's  treaties  True Christianity published  1712.    This was a famous influential work  that has undergone hundreds of translations over the past several centuries.  If you have a problem with this quote " But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13""""" then you have a problem with the words of Christ, James, and John;  you should also study Christ's letters to the church in the book of Revelation for understanding

After a week of reading the various posts from the multitude of "Hyper Grace" Paulinist shills on this forum and seeing the way they treat others with their self righteous ramblings,  I thought it would be interesting to borrow the writings from Arndt and gauge the response.

This christian "fight-club" reminds me of the church I left decades ago.  It's quite depressing and I will not be back.

-

I appreciate that Johann Arndt's writings mean so much to you.

And im glad you have shown the rest of the readers here, what I already discerned about your OSNAS point of view, before you responded to me a second time and more openly revealed it.

So, as your religion directly conflicts with Pauline Theology, then you have to decide which way you will continue to go.

See, here is the issue.... Realist.

"enduring to the end", is a means of self effort to make it into heaven, of one's own doing, and this doctrine is "another Gospel", as it does not agree with 'Grace Through Faith" because it negates the Blood Atonement and substitutes "self effort" for the Cross, and Jesus's finished work on it.

Listen, read it like this, Realist, instead of just reacting with words about fight clubs and leaving the church., etc..

"IF YOU DO NOT ENDURE TO THE END < you will not go to HEAVEN".

See it?

THAT is NOT Salvation, through Christ.

AS, where is the Blood Atonement in that religious mandate? = its substituted for "enduring to the end."

And , Where is the FREE GIFT of Salvation, the "Gift of Righteousness"  in that mess of a theology? =  its substituted for "enduring to the end."

And you cant  say you are trusting in Christ and ALSO enduring to the end, to BE Saved.

Its not both., and one is Galatians 1:8, when "enduring" is taught as Redemption =  "The Cross + enduring"........as this is Grace + Works..........as this is teaching that Salvation is partly what Jesus did and partly what you do as a lifestyle...= which is a lie and an insult to the Blood Of Jesus.

So, Brother,  we are not in a fight club, but real Christians ARE in a war against anything that takes the credit for Salvation away from the Blood Atonement, away from Jesus The Christ,  and redirects it and credits it ALSO to a person's deeds, works, or personal lifestyle or (enduring) as a part of God's Redemption.

So, I invite you to get in the good fight, and that is the one that gives all the Credit due to Jesus on the Cross as the only means that God offers to accept anyone into His family.

There is ONE WAY to heaven,  John 14:6,  and its not enduring, and its not holding onto your faith, and its not presenting your body a living sacrifice, and its not water baptism .....but the single means and method that God offers anyone so that HE can accept them, is for them to be given HIS very righteousness, and for this to happen, the Blood of Jesus has to remove our SIN.  And once this has occurred , then Salvation (born again) has occurred.

Eternal life with God, is not about enduring......its about RECEIVING....Its about God's very righteousness   > becoming your new spiritual identity "in Christ"<  through the Blood Atonement. 

-

And here is one more thing for you to consider.

The devil has created the idea and drives it home, often using "christians", that, if a person is trusting in Christ alone to get them to heaven, (GRACE) ..... then this is the same as teaching that you can live anyway you want, do anything you like, as its all covered by GRACE".

However, this is simply the devil's way of blinding the self righteous from seeing the truth about (Grace) and eternal redemption.

See, Satan's theology paints "Grace" as "license to sin", and deceives many believers with His idea and theology as a means to rob them of the truth of what the Grace of God has done for them.

See, the devil does not want you to find out that the Cross and the Blood of Jesus =  a permanent-eternal solution, and not a temporary one that is only active if you are "being good". "enduring", "working" "confessing sins", and all the rest of the "deeds" to (help Jesus)  earn your own salvation. 

And right there is one of the wars that is raging within Christianity, whereby, people who understand Grace, and live Holy lives, are considered by those who are OSNAS Legalists to be instead raising hell and enjoying it all the way to heaven.

So, its the DEVIL who is manipulating  the self righteousness in many believers to blind them to the Grace of God, and has them bitter and has them deceived and has them doing his work of trying to harm other believers with his theology.

And what IS "Self Righteousness"?........ Its more then pride....its the very act of trying to make YOUR-SELF Righteous so that God will accept you.

See, Realist, its not the "enduring, or the "confessing sins", or the "holding unto your faith", or  "holy living", that is the issue, ......the issue is the REASON you are doing it., as once a believer has become convinced that all those deeds are necessary to be saved, then the "Cross has become of no effect unto them", and they are "fallen from Grace"

And what IS "falling from Grace"?......Falling from Grace is the mental point at which a person stops actually trusting in  Jesus to save them, and they start trying to help Him with it, by their deeds.

This is LEGALISM, within a Christian's HEAD, and its played out in REALITY by "enduring" and all the other works.... they BELIEVE  are necessary for them to do, or they are not kept saved by the Blood Atonement.

So, JESUS is GONE from that point of view...>He is GONE.....The Cross has been SUBSTITUTED by "SELF- Righteousness".

Listen, ITS the GRACE OF GOD ALONE that IS  the sustained sin cleansing blood of Jesus, which gives you the power to live a holy - sanctified life, and in fact has saved you.

Its DONE.

Being "Born Again" is not temporary and its not incomplete, and its not based on your lifestyle.

And the reason so many dont  REJOICE all this  LIGHT im showing you, is because they are not experiencing the power of the freedom that is found "in Christ", because they are instead banging their legalistic head's against the wall of deeds and effort and enduring and works, and are getting NO WHERE except more and more and more  religious, which is useless, as this can't SAVE you.

 

Edited by Behold
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3 hours ago, Behold said:

 

Thank you.

and  God bless you also.

I honestly dont struggle with trying to make myself "good enough", as there is no such thing, regarding anything we can do that would cause God to accept us according to our own merit.

Sometimes, an Atheist who has known you for many years might say to you...."well, I know you, I know what you were like before you got religion, and ive seen you mess up many times since you got it".

And they would add, "so, im certainly as good as you are, and if God will let you into His heaven, then im sure he'll let me in also".

But then..

Here is the problem with that darkened perspective...

Its true that an atheist might be a much better person then I will ever be, even on my best day, on my way to Church, ....but, how does the atheist compare to JESUS?

How do you compare to Jesus?

The same as I do....... = WE DONT !!!!!.

And that is the issue....as God's standard for what He will accept into HIS FAMILY, is....."the righteousness of Christ'.....and neither I, nor the Atheist, or anyone here, will ever have this, of their own accord.

So, before you are saved, or after you are saved, ....YOU, OF YOURSELF,  are not good enough, by yourself, to be worthy to go to Heaven.  And because this is the case for us all, then we hopefully will come to realize that what Gets us in the Heavenly gate, and keeps us there, has nothing to do with US.

Philippians 1:6

And once we see this, clearly, then we let go of all the earning salvation, and keeping salvation, and enduring to the end, and all this SELF EFFORT TO BE ACCEPTED BY GOD, as all of this is completely USELESS to save us OR Keep us saved.

So, you ask yourself..

"what am I trusting, if I died today, to get me into heaven".

And if your first thought is not...."JESUS"........then you have a religious issue and a theological problem that you need to solve, asap.

I always enjoy reading your posts, because you have something that set you apart, the way you put down in words what you have understood, and I don't say that because I follow this man's teachings or the others, it is because I have come to understand my self.

Having a Judge as a Father I learn how to be a critical thinker, and having no fear when I study isues. 

The truth is every one who walks down the front of the church (altar call) is already saved, because they take the walk with faith in Jesus Christ, they have believed already , they are believers. 

To Jesus they are his as they are as everyone of us as we are. 

Even with unrepentant sins, 

Even without dedicating their lifes to Jesus, even with love for the things of this world, if not why Jesus would say nothing can take us out from his hand, we are in him , because we believe, and we are not in him if we renounce are faith in him, I did not say staying away, or keeping a distance from him, or calling upon the name of a saint, or being involved in things he disapproves, being more involved with things of the darkness, than things of the lights, serving both the light and the darkness. 

Senting our children to church and hope they don't become like us "lovers of this world and the fless with, unquenchable passion. 

Many believers in Jesus Christ are in this situation that results staying away from anything that may examine us, hating disapproval keeping God in a distance. 

Not being afraid of Hell because we believe in Jesus Christ and by nature without any one teaching us we understand grace better than anyone else , because not just we need it, but because it is truth, and that's the wittness we have in our heart. 

In this situation we do not someone to come and say repent or you go to Hell, because we. Know we do not go to Hell, Jesus is for Heaven and not for Hell.

While we pass the test or Judgement of faith in Jesus Christ and we have peace in this matter , 

And we can still pass the test of good works, sharing even the last sandwish with a friend, helping someone in need, giving change not only to "those outside the coffe shops", but to charities and disasters", 

Even we may pass the test of witnessing, as we may encourage another believer not to give up the faith in Jesus Christ as long as they live, especially to non practising Catholics. 

In that situations there some things that we need to be saved from and not as to go to Heaven, because we are talking about believers, but the need to be saved from serving the fless with a distorted passion. 

Serving some evil spirits in our ignorance, believing that it is just us, that's how we are , that this is our nature, not knowing that we have been victimized to yeild our selfs with passion to those things, folloing seducing spirits, and have developed to be like them that now we have become sedusers our selfs. 

We don't need the devil there, we have become devils our selfs, and with faith in Jesus Christ. 

We need to be saved from those things, as we have become masters of lies and deceit, and we cherished those perverted defects of caracter, and we see them as our special power, and we do not want to let go.

We need to be saved from all those things, we need to repent, to be saved from them and the devils who bless them and follow us.

We need to understand we can be a new man in Christ, we do not have to live the rest of our lives in this futility of mind.

As believers we can ask Jesus to help us, the Holy Spirit to guide us, to renew our mind and heart, but for this to happened we need to take an active role and fight the good fight and continue in the race keep going forwards, and if we get stack , get up and continiun in the race going forwards, even if we turn back , start again forwards.

Two steps back , continue again forwards. 

Sorry I did not mean to go on like that, but I wanted to make the distinction of being Saved in the name of Jesus from Hell, and being saved from serving  the elements of self. And the hidden seducing spirits. 

 

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I  think the easy believism teachings popular today lead people into dangerous conclusions about spiritual rest and enduring   But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matt 24:13

 

There exists no such thing as  “easy believism”. The free gift of salvation was made available to all of us at  a horrific cost......Nothing “easy” about the torture Christ endured to give us the incredible deal He offers us—— He got your sin , and you got His Righteousness....what an incredible , loving God.All we do is believe Paul’s Gospel given to him by Christ himself.God made it so “ easy “ for us that all the unsaved and perverters and preachers of the “ accursed” Gospel will be without excuse come Judgement Day.I wish they would join my side where we can “ sin all we want”.Sadly they never get it.Having all the burdens they carry and all the worries they must endure removed from my shoulders is the true impetus for wanting to obey out of a sense of love for my Savior.The only thing they really , REALLY believe is what I call “ The Doctrine Of Lucky Repentance”. All the “ holy living” they did, the years of empty sacrifices they endured thinking they were “ pleasing God” counts for nothing If they slip up and say a bad word right before they die if they were not able to slip a hasty repentance in there before that last breath.One key word they never included in their missives was the word “ grace”. They never understood it—— more important , they never trusted it. Never lived to see how it couuld exist without turning it into a license to sin.How great a life it is when one understands true Sabbathing.I pray God opens the eyes of the religionists.All thAt work for nothing.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/16/2018 at 6:27 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

. We need to understand we can be a new man in Christ, we do not have to live the rest of our lives in this futility of mind.

As believers we can ask Jesus to help us, the Holy Spirit to guide us, to renew our mind and heart, but for this to happened we need to take an active role and fight the good fight and continue in the race keep going forwards, and if we get stack , get up and continiun in the race going forwards, even if we turn back , start again forwards.

 

 

-

The NT tells us that we "are the righteousness of God"... 2nd Corinthians 5:21..... and that we are "seated in Heavenly places" "In Christ"  RIGHT NOW,....  and that "as Jesus IS, so are WE in this world" = RIGHT NOW.

So, >there<  is our Salvation.....Redemption..... The ATONEMENT.......and our eternal position in God's family...... and so,   We can't possibly achieve more of it by lifestyle, by discipleship, then being as Righteous as God, right NOW,

=  then has already been freely supplied to us when we became Born Again.

 

The Blood Atonement does not run dry ...... The sacrifice of God on a Cross for us, is permanent....Its as permanent a situation for us, as completed,  as God is eternal.

This is not ordinary BLOOD that ran down a cross and dripped off the feet of the dying Incarnation..... This is GOD's BLOOD,..... HOLY, SANCTIFYING, REDEEMING....,  dripping from the body of God's Son, who IS, "God in the Flesh", who "dwelt among us" and is alive and who is our Holy Advocate with the Father and who is making intercession for us right now.

We are not redeemed by something ordinary....  and we the born again are not made righteous in God's eyes by something temporary... We are RECREATED by this Holy Blood of GOD  and imputed with  RIGHTEOUS EQUALITY to the  very ONE who shed it for our SIN, and who "Became our Sin", in our place.  And because of God's Holy sacrifice, we, as the born again, will never meet God as Judge in Heaven, and those who have never taken God's sacrifice for their sin, will never meet God as Their > Father<  at all.

 

 We literally  can't become, by lifestyle, or by any personal struggle to be good,  any of this.....as its all a FREE GIFT....its all imputed, delivered, and done for us, by God through Christ.

Salvation, Redemption, is GOD's IDEA.....He created this situation.......He is the ONE who personally designed Redemption, and  BECAUSE HE LOVES US SO MUCH  HE DECIDED = I will go to them, I will die for them, I will save them,  and bring them HOME TO ME and never let them go.

That is what our FATHER IN HEAVEN DID FOR US..:)

THIS is who HE IS...... "God is LOVE". and within Him there is no shadow of turning, there is not an ounce of indecision.

Our Salvation is just as perfectly prepared, and perfectly delivered, and perfectly eternal, as God is PERFECT.

 

WE are told that our HEARTS need to be established by GRACE, and this is because if our hearts are established by Grace, then this frees us from the slow suffering bondage of trying to be good enough to be accepted by God, and instead we are delivered into the unconditional Love of God........ And from THIS, we can serve Him without worry and fear and doubt.

Jesus said, "come unto me with your heavy burden of sin and worry and needless <> useless working to be good enough for God to accept you, and I will give you REST from all this misery".

The Joy of the Lord, is REST from the endless EFFORT to be good enough to be worthy enough to be accepted by God,  based on our own effort.

The Joy of the Lord is the Beautiful Light of the Revelation that God has given us a Redemption that HE KEEPS SAFE FOR US, because HE IS THE ONE WHO DID IT FOR US on a CROSS.

Philippians 1:6. = God started our Salvation with the Birth of the Incarnation, and He completes it when we meet Him by giving us a glorious new body that is "made without hands".

Our Salvation, our Redemption is all of HIS CREATION, and we are the eternal benefactors, we are the  permanent recipients, we are the BORN AGAIN INTO THIS GIFT OF LOVE AND GRACE AND ETERNAL LIFE, =   and THIS IS the eternal "rest" that all Christians hopefully  realize we have already in our possession,  as this is how Grace is supposed to activate us, by giving us REST from ourselves and from our religious pursuits, by giving us "fullness of JOY JOY JOY JOY" that IS God's amazing Grace.

Edited by Behold
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