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AMERICA: NEW ROME & BABYLON THE GREAT ("Come out of her, My people...")


LightShinesInTheDarkness

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One of the major problems of today in the area of thought is that it is not formed by the diligent aspect of 

2 Tim 2:15-19
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
KJV

I see this more and more... those who speak from: I feel, I think, it means to me, speaks to me, a word from God (not a quote from Scripture) etc... God has clearly outlined how to know the truth and there is no other way but by diligent study of Scripture and The Holy Spirit within directing in a total objective format of written down...
Isa 28:10
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
KJV

A literal, historic context of who, when, where, what, why and possibly how of every instance of record within God's Precious source of instruction to us His Children... it is not a arguable area of reality, for the simple fact, either God's Word guides us into renewed mind of thought and reason -or- we bring old mind and reason into God's Word... the first (a renewed mind) being one of contextual, literal, historic forming an objective sense of thus saith The Lord as thus saith The Lord or other which is subjective garbage of fallen world and self authorized thought forced upon the written text -which God will
2 Peter 3:10-11
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
KJV

The simple of this is we should be a people that seeks to know God more than our necessary food... knowing that the Scriptures try the (s) or (S)pirit to determine whether they are of God or not... the reverse is not found within God's Word …. yet the vast majority of peoples are going in that direction today I feel, I think, from within I had a word from (g)/(G)od, etc. the final proof that what I say is right is The Scripture
Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
KJV
 Few there be that find this path because it is unsatisfying to the flesh...
 
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2 minutes ago, other one said:

well I guess we could....   but since we didn't strike oil we'd have to be street people LoL

:24:  Hey rich people garbage has best menu  :happyhappy:  

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6 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

:24:  Hey rich people garbage has best menu  :happyhappy:  

I hadn't thought of that.....

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1 minute ago, other one said:

I hadn't thought of that.....

It's on the lower level of how to books :13: 

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This thread went off the rails.

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On 5/28/2018 at 5:11 PM, Sojourner414 said:

Exactly: what "pre-destined" means here is that for those who accept salvation, then the course that follows is that they will be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. The "foreknows" part is that the Lord knows who will accept and who will not; so Scripture is not saying that God predestined some to be saved, but that He knows who would accept salvation, and that those who do would follow a prescribed process.

It's much like saying "I know one day you'll join the Army; when you do, you'll go through boot camp".  It's not saying "I chose you to go into the Army".

Forgive me for jumping into the middle but I must interject.

Not sure I'm clear on a point.

If salvation is accepted are we not saved?

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On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:05 AM, Diaste said:

One of the main reasons why the Rev 18 Babylon is yet to come rises from the prophet Daniel. The kingdoms of the statue all ruled from a literal Babylon. A Babylon that existed in time and space. Nebuchadnezzar, Belshazzar, Artaxerxes, Darius, Alexander all ruled the world from Babylon. The Iron kingdom, the fourth in the statue, the legs of iron, which is the first world wide rule of Islam, also ruled this area. The coming iteration of Islam, which we see on the rise today in ISIS, is the feet and toes mixed clay and comes directly out the region of ancient Babylonia. This is no surprise as the Daniel 2 statue is connected from head to feet with 4 of the kingdoms all ruling the same city and region. Since the feet and toes are also connected the coming Iron kingdom will also rule from here. 

I have always viewed the 4 kingdoms represented by the statue in Daniel as; the Babylonian kingdom, the Medo-Persion kingdom, the Grecian kingdom, and the Roman empire.  I had never seen the common point as being the location of Babylon itself.  I have to check this out.  On first blush though, Alexander the Great was the son of Phillip of Macedonia, so I assume he ruled from there. And Rome is the capital of the Roman empire.  They all controlled the area where Babylon is though, so you may be on to something. 

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How in the world do we get away from the title of this thread, AMERICA: NEW ROME & BABYLON THE GREAT ("Come out of her, My people...") to a debate on election? There were some very challenging points introduced, which spoke directly to the OP. (I recently learned what the initials OP stand for.) That's what I want to learn about. 

So to that point I say that comparing scriptural descriptions of Babylon to present day current events is extrabiblical in essence and is therefore speculative at best, irrespective of the apparent similarities. My road to Rome, so to speak, was my interpretation that the statue in Daniel represented Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, then Rome.  One of the posts directly challenged my interpretation by asserting that 4th kingdom isn't Rome, but an Islamic kingdom.  That is the kind of stuff I need to research.  

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2 hours ago, JoeChan82 said:

I have always viewed the 4 kingdoms represented by the statue in Daniel as; the Babylonian kingdom, the Medo-Persion kingdom, the Grecian kingdom, and the Roman empire.  I had never seen the common point as being the location of Babylon itself.  I have to check this out.  On first blush though, Alexander the Great was the son of Phillip of Macedonia, so I assume he ruled from there. And Rome is the capital of the Roman empire.  They all controlled the area where Babylon is though, so you may be on to something. 

For a long time I too viewed the Iron kingdom as Rome. But I had HEARD the Iron kingdom was Rome and the Roman Empire, and as far as I knew this was arrived at by a verse fragment from Rev 17:10, "one is". Then a speculative conclusion followed; "It must be Rome as John must mean the empire ruling in his day.", with another bit of speculation thrown in, "All these kingdoms subjugated Israel." Part of the problem with people interpreting Revelation is some think John wrote the book. All John did was take dictation. Jesus is the revealer and He got it from His Father. John was only a vessel into which was poured the truth.

One sunny day while reading Daniel 8 for the umpteenth time I saw that the little horn must come out of one of the four notable horns that arose after the end of the Grecian empire. That leaves only four possible locales for the emergence of the little horn: Egypt, Asia Minor, Macedonia, and the Middle East. Just there Rome is out as a candidate. It took all of 30 seconds, well after some years of course! Please forgive me if I digress a bit, this is all most fascinating to me; mainly because it refutes most noted scholars on the subject. It just doesn't get much better than that!

Since now it was true that Rome was out, who was in? So what I came up with was the only common point between the first three, Babylon. I thought that might be wrong as I assumed Alexander ruled from Greece, but he moved the capitol to Babylon and that's where he died. "According to a Babylonian astronomical diary, Alexander died between the evening of June 10 and the evening of June 11, 323 BC, at the age of thirty-two. This happened in the palace of Nebuchadnezzar II in Babylon.":  "A contemporary account of the death of Alexander". Livius.org. Retrieved Aug 21, 2011.

 So then this was a good clue. Another was the diversity of the 4th beast from Daniel 7. While the first three beasts were different from each other the fourth was yet different from all the rest. I was reminded of Rome again. Why? So I looked at the Precious Metal kingdoms and compared then to Rome. Civil life in these kingdoms were all pretty much alike. Religious and social activities, education, jobs infrastructure were all mostly the same, the subjects had a great deal of freedom to do as they wished. The striking feature was the religious freedom. All forms of religion were allowed and one could worship any god they choose , as long as it was not causing civil unrest or opposing the king. So then Rome was no different than the first three. Out again.

But a world power was coming before which even the Romans fled; Islam. Now Islam is different in that the modern freedoms present in the first three kingdoms do not exist, most especially religious freedom. On pain of death, slavery or taxation, one must worship Allah under Islamic rule. Now that is very different. Islam was also a great power in the whole of the Mideast where Rome's rule ended at the Levant. Even though Rome did rule in Mesopotamia for a short time during the last part of Trajan's time, Hadrian abandoned this area immediately upon taking power.

Four kingdoms did hold absolute power in that region for as long their reigns lasted, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Islam, Rome did not.

It could argued that Babylon is spiritual. Indeed it is. It's a wicked haunt filled with demonic doctrine, evil impulses, and sick, twisted acts. The bastion of the enemy, the stronghold of the whisperer, the cause of the evil of the heart to take hold of the soul and manifest. Satan's arsenal is stored there, and it's everywhere. This is the way spiritual Babylon holds power over the earth. When we are told to come out her what's meant is, "We are in the world, not of the world." "Be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of you mind in Christ Jesus." We aren't called out of a city, we are called out of a global epistemology.

But Babylon is also a place of stone and mortar that existed in time and space. A grand city. Rich and disgusting. A symbol of spiritual Babylon, a city to be destroyed by God. God our Father will show His great power and destroy this symbol once, and forever. This is how the stone made without hands can destroy all these kingdoms. The symbol of the kingdoms of the statue, and spiritual Babylon, will rise and be consumed by fire.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Babylon rises again, right out the Iraqi desert. Profound and deadly spiritual power will invade this dimension some time in the future. We're gonna see a lot of things emerge in every time/space moment we thought were only in the realms of imagination, celluloid and binary code.

 

 

 

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I agree with Diaste about Islam

The 5 kingdoms of the beast fallen of the 7 are the land of Magog, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and the kingdom of Antiochus IV north of Israel

Two more are given for the coming tribulation period .... the sixth kingdom of the little horn and his next and 7th expanded kingdom

The beast will over take the little horn and become the 8th king himself

Islam is in view here as the last rule before it is destroyed by the Lord at Armageddon

This beast was sent to the abyss at the end of his 5th rule just at the end of the rule of Antiochus IV

He will come out of the abyss to consummate the 6th and 7th during the coming 70th week .... he is Abaddon/Apollyon

 

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