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Blood Bought 1953

Musings in regard to Hell

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10 hours ago, LuftWaffle said:

Why on earth would you think that losing out on eternal life in God's kingdom and being with Him versus facing judgement and execution at the hands of God is of no consequence?

Because the " judgement" you define makes it of no consequence .

  Eternal nothingness , with no pain , no sorrow , no tears , no aloneness , no regrets , no lasting punishment , not even the thought of it .   

So you die and find out you are about to be handed an eternity of  sweet nothingness for a minute or two  , big woop .

In fact for the drug kingpin ,  the serial killer ,  all sadistic human monster types that harbored some  fear their whole life that they might end up suffering  an actual eternal

torment for their evil this would be most welcome  development . 

Sweet !

How could someone who feared they might suffer an eternity for their vile lifetime of  inhumanity on earth consider this anything but a welcome development ?

Don't tell me you have never seen the defiant death row prisoner saying " bring on the executioner " explaining they have NOTHING to fear ? 

According to you they are exactly right , they get NOTHING . An eternity of it in fact  , and that is their punishment peaceful nothingness for eternity  . 

 

 

 

Edited by Unfailing Presence

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16 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Because the " judgement" you define makes it of no consequence .

  Eternal nothingness , with no pain , no sorrow , no tears , no aloneness , no regrets , no lasting punishment , not even the thought of it .   

So you die and find out you are about to be handed an eternity of  sweet nothingness for a minute or two  , big woop .

In fact for the drug kingpin ,  the serial killer ,  all sadistic human monster types that harbored some  fear their whole life that they might end up suffering  an actual eternal

torment for their evil this would be most welcome  development . 

Sweet !

How could someone who feared they might suffer an eternity for their vile lifetime of  inhumanity on earth consider this anything but a welcome development ?

Don't tell me you have never seen the defiant death row prisoner saying " bring on the executioner " explaining they have NOTHING to fear ? 

According to you they are exactly right , they get NOTHING . An eternity of it in fact  , and that is their punishment peaceful nothingness for eternity  . 

This is a philosophical argument you're trying to run here, and my primary concern is what the Bible teaches. If the Bible throughout the Torah reserved execution for the worst of crimes and God decides to continue that at the final judgement, which I believe the text teaches, I really couldn't care less that you think it's a "sweet deal" for some whom you think deserves what you consider a worse punishment. I'm not sure why you think the execution that God has planned will only last a minute or two, but even if it does, I'm pretty certain you'd rather want you children to live forever in the new earth, than endure it. 

So with that I do differ from your opinion (and it is mere opinion on your part) in that I believe the glories of life on the new earth is worth living for and I believe in the inherent value of life, something you seem to place little stock in. I also don't view being condemned and executed by the living God as, "big whoop". 

Edited by LuftWaffle

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On 9/6/2018 at 2:44 PM, Cletus said:

never said physical death didnt. 

Okay, but then it cannot be used as a proof-text against death meaning ordinary death.

Edited by LuftWaffle

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1 hour ago, LuftWaffle said:
17 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Because the " judgement" you define makes it of no consequence .

  Eternal nothingness , with no pain , no sorrow , no tears , no aloneness , no regrets , no lasting punishment , not even the thought of it .   

So you die and find out you are about to be handed an eternity of  sweet nothingness for a minute or two  , big woop .

In fact for the drug kingpin ,  the serial killer ,  all sadistic human monster types that harbored some  fear their whole life that they might end up suffering  an actual eternal

torment for their evil this would be most welcome  development . 

Sweet !

How could someone who feared they might suffer an eternity for their vile lifetime of  inhumanity on earth consider this anything but a welcome development ?

Don't tell me you have never seen the defiant death row prisoner saying " bring on the executioner " explaining they have NOTHING to fear ? 

According to you they are exactly right , they get NOTHING . An eternity of it in fact  , and that is their punishment peaceful nothingness for eternity  . 

This is a philosophical argument you're trying to run here,

Its reality .

Any Hitler would  hope for a judgement of nothingness , to  fully conscious eternal torment.

This ain't rocket science . 

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The clear and decided didactic from Jesus on the subject of hell is the Lazarus account where upon dying they awake to continuing consciousness of surroundings... 

Luke 16:24

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
KJV

 

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On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 1:58 AM, LuftWaffle said:

Wow, this is demonstrably false. The surrounding verses provide clarity:

Rev 22:10  And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near
Rev 22:11  Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy." 
Rev 22:12  "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.

One important aspects in hermeneutics is context which is immediate, then chapter, book, OT or NT then entire Bible... is in this process where you have failed. Verse 11 cannot be speaking in the present of the writing 90 ad or there about- for that would be this the church age and now is all about hearing, repenting and asking God to save us from ourselves... therefore it must be linked to verse 10 to the prophetical aspects of the coming judgment "for the time is near" and the understanding is verse 11 no chance of change for all eternity... your view of annihilation just won't stand the test of Scripture....  

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11 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The clear and decided didactic from Jesus on the subject of hell is the Lazarus account where upon dying they awake to continuing consciousness of surroundings... 

Luke 16:24

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
KJV

 

Firstly the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is just that, a parable not a "clear didactic passage". 
Secondly, the scenario depicting in the parable takes place prior to final judgement as evidenced by the rich man wanting to warn his brothers who are still alive. So it has nothing to do with the final fate of the wicked.
Thirdly it mention nothing about "continuing" consciousness for all eternity.

So basically none of what you're saying is actually in this passage.

If only we could have clear description of what is going to happen to the ungodly (besides of course all the other plain straightforward texts I've already offered mentioning death, destruction perishing etc)...
If only we could have an example so that we don't have to guess...

Image that!

2Pe 2:6  if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 

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6 hours ago, enoob57 said:

One important aspects in hermeneutics is context which is immediate, then chapter, book, OT or NT then entire Bible... is in this process where you have failed. Verse 11 cannot be speaking in the present of the writing 90 ad or there about- for that would be this the church age and now is all about hearing, repenting and asking God to save us from ourselves... therefore it must be linked to verse 10 to the prophetical aspects of the coming judgment "for the time is near" and the understanding is verse 11 no chance of change for all eternity... your view of annihilation just won't stand the test of Scripture....  

You shouldn't teach about hermeneutics and then violate the very things you're teaching by importing speculations that simply aren't in the text. Nowhere does Rev 22:11 describe the evil of the evildoers and the righteousness of righteous continuing for all eternity. What is there, is the angel sandwiching the statement between mentioning "not to seal up the propecy of the book for the time is near", and a statement referring to the coming judgement, where obviously the aforementioned evil and good will be judged. That precisely is what judgement is for, to JUDGE the good and evil deeds. To pretend that the judgement precedes the good and evil deeds just because you're desperately looking for something that you can use to harmonise the Platonist notion that all people will spent eternity somewhere, is not warranted by the text at all.

The idea that people will continue to sin in hell is nowhere in the Bible. It's a theory that theologians came up with to explain why God would infinitely torture people for finite crimes. It's a philosophical speculation, ancillary to the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. You cannot read that into the text, then claim the interpretation as proof for the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. One would expect that with such shoddy exegesis, and so much question begging you'd come across as less self-assured. 
I guess that's the Dunning-Kruger internet for you.

 

Edited by LuftWaffle

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39 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said:

Firstly the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is just that, a parable not a "clear didactic passage". 
Secondly, the scenario depicting in the parable takes place prior to final judgement as evidenced by the rich man wanting to warn his brothers who are still alive. So it has nothing to do with the final fate of the wicked.
Thirdly it mention nothing about "continuing" consciousness for all eternity.

This has no merit to anything... What ever Jesus said it was truth so parable or no this was the reality after death or it was a lie....
Not everything is exhausted in one place in the Scripture but one is to study to show oneself approved...
 

Rev 20:10-15

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV
As Scripture teaches the rich man was delivered up from his conscious torment to find judgment and the eternal torment of the lake of fire where by the way Jesus also didactically teaches

Mark 9:43-50

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
KJV
 

Edited by enoob57

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13 minutes ago, LuftWaffle said:

You shouldn't teach about hermeneutics and then violate the very things you're teaching by importing speculations that simply aren't in the text. Nowhere does Rev 22:11 describe the evil of the evildoers and the righteousness of righteous continuing for all eternity. What is there, is the angel sandwiching the statement between mentioning "not to seal up the propecy of the book for the time is near", and a statement referring to the coming judgement, where obviously the aforementioned evil and good will be judged. That precisely is what judgement is for, to JUDGE the good and evil deeds. To pretend that the judgement precedes the good and evil deeds just because you're desperately looking for something that you can use to harmonise the Platonist notion that all people will spent eternity somewhere, is not warranted by the text at all.

The idea that people will continue to sin in hell is nowhere in the Bible. It's a theory that theologians came up with to explain why God would infinitely torture people for finite crimes. It's a philosophical speculation, ancillary to the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. You cannot read that into the text, then claim the interpretation as proof for the doctrine of eternal conscious torment. One would expect that with such shoddy exegesis, and so much question begging you'd come across as less self-assured. 
I guess that's the Dunning-Kruger internet for you.

 

looks like you haven't anything new here just the same ole rhetoric … your view is so ridiculous it's like I should start running around warning everyone their going to sleep... where's the fear in that :24: But there is fear in The Lord and hell is why! I have shown everyone to my satisfaction that the Bible supports eternal conscious torment … 

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