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The chronological order of end time events


Quasar93

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14 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation Boy, yes I meant to use boy instead of man to get your attention. When commenting, it is not my intention to expound to you every last detail of the Holy Scriptures. The reason I only brought up the middle of the three questions is that it was the one which pertained to our discussion. "When shall these things be", refers to the destruction of the city and temple which took place in 70 AD. "And of the end of the world" (aeon), this is equivalent with Christ's coming since it is when Christ returns.

Children like to speak of the obvious (it is that which adults take as a given, something already understood) thinking that it makes themselves look like an adult. Revelation Boy it is time for you to go to school.

Lesson 1

We have the privilege of being given three parallel accounts of the Olivet Discourse. The observance of all three will provide us with a clear picture of what Christ was communicating. To understand the chronology of events as Christ spoke of them we must pay close attention to words which carry temporal (relating to time) meaning.

Notice that both Matthew and Luke record details of the period that Jesus calls the beginning of sorrows.

Mat 24:4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7  For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Luk 21:8  And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Luk 21:9  But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
Luk 21:10  Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luk 21:11  And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Notice also that what John sees at the opening of the first three seals corresponds closely with Christ's description of the beginning of sorrows.

Rev 6:1  And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:2  And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Rev 6:3  And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
Rev 6:4  And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
Rev 6:5  And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Rev 6:6  And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

These are the beginning of sorrows, or early birth pains. It is interesting that Luke records that Jesus told the disciples what takes place before the beginning of sorrows. Note the temporal language used.

Luk 21:12  But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Luk 21:13  And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
Luk 21:14  Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
Luk 21:15  For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
Luk 21:16  And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
Luk 21:17  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
Luk 21:18  But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
Luk 21:19  In your patience possess ye your souls.

Jesus in Luke describes the various persecutions of the church age, especially at the beginning of it. However, Matthew follows the details of the beginning of sorrows with "then", and gives a description of great tribulation. This great tribulation (unprecedented persecution of the elect (church) and Israel by the Beast, False Prophet, and their followers) is given further clarification by Jesus in verses 15 thru 29 of Matthew's account. We know this is true because of the use of "therefore" in verse 15.

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22  And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25  Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

So, we see that there is persecution before the beginning of sorrows (from the days of the Apostles until now) and at the time of and following the beginning of sorrows.

Luke is the only one of the three that records Christ's answer concerning the destruction of the city and temple.

Luk 21:20  And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22  For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Obviously you haven't looked at any of my comments or posts if you think that I teach there is no tribulation or persecution for the church. We have been, and are presently being persecuted, and after the revelation of the Beast in the middle of the week that persecution will become so severe that Christ calls it unprecedented great tribulation. He also says that He must cut it short to save some of the elect alive upon the earth (Matt 24:22). He does this with His return.

That's all I have time for now Revelation Man.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

You said a lot to say nothing. You of course tried to change the subject. 

 

Matthew 24:1-14 has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Tribulation period. Not understanding that is on you son. When the Gospel is preached unto all the world, then the Rapture happens.  

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5 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

"You are right to think that God's wrath begins in Revelation 8 at the blowing of the first trumpet, however, that is not the period Jesus called great tribulation"

 

All of the 70th week will be great tribulation .... the Lord says no different

You do not want to go there

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Jesus absolutely says different. He says great tribulation starts when the abomination of desolation takes place. Daniel says that the abomination of desolation happens in the middle of the week.

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17  Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18  Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19  And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20  But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Can you read?

A lot happens in the middle of the week, and it is all associated with the revelation of the man of sin, the Beast, or Antichrist (whichever you prefer to call him) and the start of the unprecedented persecution of the elect and Israel by him.

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3  And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Dan 12:4  But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:5  Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
Dan 12:6  And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
Dan 12:7  And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (Until he stands aside in the middle. "the way" is translated from mesos which means middle)
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Rev 12:7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
...
Rev 12:12  Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15  And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16  And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It's not that hard to see, it just requires believing what you read even when it's contrary to the system you were taught.

Hallelujah

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5 hours ago, Diaste said:

There are no separate groups. Paul taught all are one in Christ. Your conclusions are wrong in that you have ignored the most basic teachings of the Lord and the Apostles.

I still have hope you'll come to the light of truth in Jesus and be set free.

 

There are two groups who belong to Christ: 1. Those who have died in Him, as recorded in 1 Thes.4:13-14.  2. Those of us who will be alive at His coming.

 

Quasar93

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4 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You said a lot to say nothing. You of course tried to change the subject. 

 

Matthew 24:1-14 has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Tribulation period. Not understanding that is on you son. When the Gospel is preached unto all the world, then the Rapture happens.  

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

There you go again, using misleading unbiblical terminology, "the Tribulation period". It is misleading in the since that it implies that the 7 years are God's wrath in the day of the Lord. The seven years are made up of 1) the beginning of sorrows, then 2) great tribulation, then 3) the day of the Lord and God's wrath poured out therein. These happen one after the other. 

It is in verse 9 that the great tribulation is first referenced in the discourse. It's a shame you cannot be corrected by the Word of God. You are so indoctrinated into the dangerous escapism of the pre-trib lie that you have become blind to the simple (easy to be understood) statements of our Lord.

If you are a part of the last generation of the church, you will most certainly face great tribulation. If you are among the few to physically survive it you will see the cosmic sign that portends His appearance. You also will see Him in all His glory as He comes with His holy angels in the clouds. At that time He will resurrect the dead in Christ and change those who are alive and remain. He will than send His angels to gather us to Him in the clouds, to be with Him forever.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

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"Jesus absolutely says different"

 

No He does not .... that is what you think He says

He says "for then shall be great tribulation"

This is true, the entire 70th week will be great tribulation

He then goes on to specify Israel's time of trouble related to the second 1260 days

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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26 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

There you go again, using misleading unbiblical terminology, "the Tribulation period". It is misleading in the since that it implies that the 7 years are God's wrath in the day of the Lord. The seven years are made up of 1) the beginning of sorrows, then 2) great tribulation, then 3) the day of the Lord and God's wrath poured out therein. These happen one after the other. 

It is in verse 9 that the great tribulation is first referenced in the discourse. It's a shame you cannot be corrected by the Word of God. You are so indoctrinated into the dangerous escapism of the pre-trib lie that you have become blind to the simple (easy to be understood) statements of our Lord.

If you are a part of the last generation of the church, you will most certainly face great tribulation. If you are among the few to physically survive it you will see the cosmic sign that portends His appearance. You also will see Him in all His glory as He comes with His holy angels in the clouds. At that time He will resurrect the dead in Christ and change those who are alive and remain. He will than send His angels to gather us to Him in the clouds, to be with Him forever.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

The Tribulation period is not the greatest troubles ever. Jacobs Troubles last 7 years, the Greatest Troubles ever ls a SMALL TIME when the Beast kills many Jews, it might last all 3.5 years, but since a 1/3 of the Jews are protected, it might just last until he can kill the 2/3 of the Jews. The Wrath of God lasts 3.5 years.

The Sorrows means BIRTH PANGS, which means it has nothing to do with the last 7 years, it brings of to they POINT IN TIME, the Church Age BIRTHS the 7 Year Period of Jacobs Troubles. 

Matthew 24:1-14 has nothing to do with Jacobs Troubles, PERIOD. I can dance all night. The Gospel is preached by the CHURCH unto all the world, then after the Rapture the END TIME COMES, you can call it what you like, we can call it GRAVY if you want to, but Matthew 24:1-14 has nothing to do with the book of Rev. or the final 7 years. 

 

The church is IN HEAVEN !! 

Edited by Revelation Man
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4 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

There are two groups who belong to Christ: 1. Those who have died in Him, as recorded in 1 Thes.4:13-14.  2. Those of us who will be alive at His coming.

 

Quasar93

Not really two groups though, is it? Just one big group coming from a multitude of locations.  All are one in Christ. There is no Greek, Jew, rich, poor, slave or free, in the Lord Jesus we are all one. There are two distinct groups however, Believers an unbelievers. Death and Life. Always it is this way, just harder to see before Jesus came and revealed the truth.

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8 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 When the Gospel is preached unto all the world, then the Rapture happens.  

The times of the Gentiles (global preaching of the gospel) in fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham has been completed. 

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On 4/22/2018 at 8:48 PM, Quasar93 said:

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. rendered apostasia with the Latin word 'discessio,' meaning 'departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Hi Quasar....

It is in brotherly love that I dialogue with you. Two brothers in Christ who share scriptures to rightly divide the truth. Iron sharpens Iron.

I'm a researcher. And I spend most of my time researching the scriptures to see if what is being taught as truth is the truth. 

Here is a quote from the rest of the article: (Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.)

It is well established that E. Schuyler English is thought to be the first
pretribulationist to propose that “the departure” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 was a physical departure and thus a reference to the pre-trib rapture. However, history records that at least a couple of men thought of this idea before English’s series of article in 1950.11 J. S.
Mabie is said to have presented the view that “the departure” refers to the rapture as early as 1859 during a prophecy conference in Los Angeles.12 He later wrote his view in an article published in November 1895 in a periodical called Morning Star.13 Another
pre-English proponent of “the departure” as the rapture was John R. Rice in a book in 1945.14

 

From the Douay-Rheims Bible:

The day of the Lord is not to come till the man of sin be revealed. The apostle's traditions are to be observed.

[1] And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him: [2] That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

Others:

John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), crazed cult leader, founder of the Exclusive Brethren and "god" of  the Pre-Trib Rapture Center (PTRC) and the PWMI, is falsely credited with"discovering" the pre-tribulation rapture by Ice and his associates. Yet even the "mighty" Darby translated 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as the apostasy..
 
Darby Bible Translation: "Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because [it will not be] unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition;" {12}
 
Darby: "With nominal Christians this has necessarily the character of apostacy, or at least it is connected with this apostacy, and is consequent upon it; as Verse 3 (Th2 2:3) teaches us, the apostacy takes place, and then the man of sin is revealed." {13}
 
Erasmus: "signifies that great and before-predicted apostasy." {14}
 
John Wesley:  2:3 Unless the falling away - From the pure faith of the gospel, come first.{15}
 
More recently, Christian Apologist and pretribulationist Dave Hunt (1926-2013), interpreted apostasia as the apostasy: "Paul says that the apostasy precedes the revelation of the Antichrist (2 Thess 2:3)." {16}
 
 
 
This article is about the early Church Writers..... Please take time to read it. 
 
"2 Thess 2:3 in the Early Church Writings; How early Greek, Latin and Aramaic speaking Christians interpreted "Apostacia"/"Apostacy"."

 


How did the Early Church Writers view 2 Thess 2?  With one voice, both those who spoke Greek natively and those who learned it as a Scriptural language, seem to agree that "Apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3 refers to an apostacy, not a rapture.  Several of these men spoke Greek natively and all studied it and knew it as an academic language.

Translations

How the Scriptures appear in various languages can sometimes remove ambiguity if one language has ambiguity another does not.  Regardless of what new meanings theologians with an agenda try to read into the Greek "apostacia", it was translated in early Church times as "abscessio" (dispute, rebel, etc) in the Old Latin and appears in Aramaic as "מרודותא" = rebellion.  The modern Vulgate translates "Apostacia" as "discessio", which means division or rebellion.  Both the Old and Modern Latin fit the theme of rebellion, not rapture. All of these confirm that the Greek "apostacia" means "apostacy", and not a rapture.

2 Thess 2:3 uses the Latin / Greek / Aramaic words for "Rebellion" / apostacy = "abscessio" / "apostacia" / "מרודותא", and not the words for rapture, which is "raptum" / "arpages" / "chatufa".  So no early manuscript of 2 Thess 2:3 interprets "apostacia" to mean "rapture", as some WANT it to mean.

Irenaeus (130-200)

Irenaeus quoted the Old Latin translation of "abscessio" in Against Heresies V.25.  In Against Heresies V.25.5, he says this after quoting 2 Thess 2 and commenting on it,

"From all these passages are revealed to us, not merely the particulars of the apostasy (apostaciae), and [the doings] of him who concentrates in himself every satanic error..." (Against Heresies V.25.5)

What is interesting here is that Latin has a direct transliteration of "αποστασία" into Latin, which is "apostaciae".  This of course indicates that he was aware of the original Greek wording of 2 Thess 2:3, and uses it in Latin, analyzing it as "apostacy" and not with some other meaning.  Irenaeus was born in Smyrna / Izmir of modern day Turkey, and thus would have grown up speaking Greek.  He was bishop to Lyons, France (Southwest France about 90 miles from Geneva, Switzerland) where he would have had to have learned Provencial French and Latin to function as a cleric in that society.

 Here, Irenaeus is saying something I've said before, that the CONTEXT of 2 Thess 2 fits interpretting "apostacia" as "apostacy" because the entire chapter is talking about apostacy.  It is talking about the apostacy the son of perdition will lead.  So Irenaeus uses the Latin "apostaciae" in V.25.5 and paraphrases it as "abscessio" in V.25.1, which has a variant of rebellion, not rapture.

In fact, in the chapter preceeding this section, before he quotes 2 Thess 2, he is discussing the concept of apostacy before he quotes this passage.  So both the context that sets up the quote and his commentary on it support that he understood this passage to refer to an "apostacy", not a rapture.  So the flow of the context of what he says following like this....

 

Against Heresies V.24 A general discussion of apostacy, not related to end times
Against Heresies V.25-early Quotes 2 Thess 2:3 and related text and analyzes it
Against Heresies V.25-late Discusses the apostacies the lawless one will cause.

So Irenaeus definitely shed a lot of light on how "αποστασία" was interpretted as meaning apostacy, not rapture. 

In Chapter 28, titled "...the future apostacy in the time of the AntiChrist...", he goes into even mroe detail about the apostacy of the end times.

Justin Martyr (150-160 AD)

Like Irenaeus, Justin also sees "apostacy" in the meaning of 2 Thess 2:3 and sees the word indicating what the "Lawless one" will cause, since he calls him the "Man of Apostacy" in Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter CX.  He qualifies what  apostacy is by saying he would, "speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians" (ibid).

He also says, " 'Sata' in the Jewish and Syrian tongue means apostate" (Dialogue, Chapter CIII) and later calls Satan "an apostate from the will of God" (Dialogue, Chapter CXXV).

Tertullian (160-225 AD)

Tertullian quotes 2 Thess 2:3 with the same Latin wording as Irenaeus, but makes little comment on it.

Hippolytus (170-236)

Hippolytus seems to connect the abomination of desolation with 2 Thess 2:3, suggesting that he sees the abomination of desolation as the act of apostacy referred to in 2 Thess 2:3 when it refers to "apostacy".  This is a bit different from Irenaeus' view, who sees "apostacy" as referring to MANY things that will occur, both a rebellion against the faith by people but also the wide range of rebellions that the False Messiah will lead the populace into.

 

Ephraim the Syrian (306-373)

Ephraim quotes 2 Thess 2:3 and says this...

"The Apostle has penned a warning for us in his epistle to the Thessalonians:

Let no word or no letter trouble you that is not from us.
For the rebellion comes first, also the Man of Sin
And he will exalt himself over God, Making himself to be God
.’

And when the Accursed One comes and displays his mighty works and wonders, the nations will gather together and come as (if) they were going to see God....every person will renounce their deity;"
(Sermon by Ephraim on the End of the World )

So he clearly interprets "apostacy" here as rebellion and sees that "apostacy" as meaning, "every person will renounce their deity."  Muslims will renounce Allah in favor of the False Messiah as their god.  Buddhists will renounce Buddah in favor of the FM.  Nominal Christians will renounce the Real Messiah for the False one.  That is the picture of "apostacy" that Ephraim paints for his reader.  They will accept the "man of sin" as "god".

Cyril (315-387)

Cyril attempts to reconstruct the chain of events that will occur in sequential order during the end times, but omits any mention of a rapture. Like Hippolytus, he too connects the abomination of desolation with 2 Thess 2:3 seeing it as the apparent act of apostacy cited in 2 Thess 2:3. 

He also quotes heavily on the word "Apostacy" itself, saying this,

"Thus wrote Paul, and now is the falling away.  For men have fallen away from the right faith; and some preach the identity of the Son with the Father, and others dare to say that Christ was brought into being out of nothing.  And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  For men have fallen away from the truth, and have itching ears." (Cyril Lecture XV

His comments give plenty of examples of how he interpreted the word "apostacia", and he sees it as something that has already begun, citing heretical teachings of his day.

Augustine (354-430 AD)

Augustine has this to say,

"No one can doubt that he wrote this of Antichrist and of the day of judgment, which he here calls the day of the Lord, nor that he declared that this day should not come unless he first came who is called the apostate —apostate, to wit, from the Lord God" (City of God, Book XX, Chapter 19)

So here Augustine seems to suggest a similar interpretation to what Irenaeus and Justin proposed.

 

John Chrysostrom (349-407)

John Chrysostrom was a Greek speaker who wrote in Greek.  He quotes 2 Thess 2:3 and then says this....

"...except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed...Here he discourses concerning the Antichrist, and reveals great mysteries. What is “the falling away?”  [The Greek word translated “falling away” is that which we borrow as apostasy.—J.A.B.] He calls him Apostasy, as being about to destroy many, and make them fall away....he will not introduce idolatry, but will be a kind of opponent to God; he will abolish all the gods, and will order men to worship him instead of God" (Homily on 2 Thess)

 

The COLLECTIVE

Other early writers quote 2 Thess 2, but some don't analyze it is a way to indicate how they interpreted "apostacia."  Some analyze other aspects of the text.  For example, many early writers commented on who the "Restrainer" was.

But of those that did comment in such a way as to indicate HOW they interpreted the word "apostacia", they all interpret it to mean APOSTACY and give enough examples of that.  They discuss different aspects of what "apostacy" could mean, indicating they are getting at least part of their analysis out of the meaning of the word, rather than from tradition.  For example,

  • Iranaeus, Justin, Augustine and Chrysostrum see the "apostacy" as the rebellion of the False Messiah himself.
  • Hippolytus and Cyril both see the abomination of desolation included in the meaning of "apostacia".
  • Ephraim sees "every person will renounce their deity" in the meaning of "apostacia"
  • Cyril sees heretical ideas of his time in the meaning of "apostacia"

So a variety of aspects of "apostacy" are included in how the early Church interpreted the word "apostacia" / apostacy in 2 Thess 2:3.  But all of them see some form of rebellion in the meaning of the word and none see this as a rapture. 

Note that all 3 Latin writers see "apostacy" in the rebellious acts of the Man of Apostacy, and 2 Greek writers see the abomination of desolation in "apostacia".  Iraenaeus grew up speaking Greek, so he counts in both categories linguistically, but more with the Latin West culturally.

That's it for now brother. Take care.

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5 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The times of the Gentiles (global preaching of the gospel) in fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham has been completed. 

That will be complete at the Rapture. As the 70's song says, We just disagree. The Gospel is still going forth via TV unto the ends of the world. Its nigh complete, I grant you that. 

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