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The chronological order of end time events


Quasar93

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1 hour ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Daniel 11:36, you can say that till the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so. You have been deceived into dismissing many of Christ's most pertinent warnings to us and are actively involved in the deception of others. I'm here to expose the lies that you promote. I once believed and taught as you do, until God had mercy upon me and showed me the eisegesis that I was, as you are, involved in.

The shame you will bear for your lack of faithfulness in diligent study when you stand before Christ can be remedied now with repentance and the undoing the harm you have caused to others through this prosperity gospel like escapism that you preach.

If you live long enough you will see the fruit of your pernicious activity when you see the horror upon the faces of those you have deceived when they experience the wrath of the Satan through the Beast and False Prophet that most certainly will come upon the last generation of the church.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Jesus ministry in His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus had ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.

 

Quasar93

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54 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Jesus ministry in His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus had ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.

 

Quasar93

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, what did Jesus charge His disciples with before He ascended up into Heaven?

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Unless you are a hyper dispensationalist you acknowledge this to be the operative responsibility of the church today. Notice that they were to teach them to observe "all things" that Jesus had commanded them. The time Jesus spent with the Apostles was to prepare them for their apostolic ministry as a part of the foundation of the church (Eph 2:20). Just because the church wasn't in existence yet doesn't mean that Christ didn't have anything to say to or about it. It is utter foolishness to claim John 14:3 for the church and deny what Jesus said about His coming two days before as recorded in Matt 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 as being only for the eschatological Jew. In fact the end of the aion that the disciples asked about in Matt 24:3, that takes place at Christ's second coming, is the same aion (world) that Jesus refers to in Matt 28:20 when he says: "I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

By the way, thank you for your service to our country.

All praise, honour, and glory to the lamb

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22 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, what did Jesus charge His disciples with before He ascended up into Heaven?

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Unless you are a hyper dispensationalist you acknowledge this to be the operative responsibility of the church today. Notice that they were to teach them to observe "all things" that Jesus had commanded them. The time Jesus spent with the Apostles was to prepare them for their apostolic ministry as a part of the foundation of the church (Eph 2:20). Just because the church wasn't in existence yet doesn't mean that Christ didn't have anything to say to or about it. It is utter foolishness to claim John 14:3 for the church and deny what Jesus said about His coming two days before as recorded in Matt 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 as being only for the eschatological Jew. In fact the end of the aion that the disciples asked about in Matt 24:3, that takes place at Christ's second coming, is the same aion (world) that Jesus refers to in Matt 28:20 when he says: "I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen".

By the way, thank you for your service to our country.

All praise, honour, and glory to the lamb

 

None of the above alters a single thing I previously posted!  Capiche?!

>>>

Jesus ministry in His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.  The Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus had ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.<<<

 

Quasar92

 

Quasar93

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"Daniel 11:36, you can say that till the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so"

 

Matthew 24 is all about Israel and should be interpreted as such .... the Lord's discourse in all 3 accounts is about Israel alone

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

The fact of the matter is, I am a WWII Vet, in my 95th year, having spent two years in the Pacific/Asiatic theater with the USAAF Air Corp during the war.

With reference to the Day of the Lord, and when it begins:  We are told when that will begin in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.  Before the man of lawlessness is revealed.  He is revealed in Dan.9:27 [Among a number of other places], as the HE who will confirm a binding seven year agreement [covenant], in addition to the two following "he's" after the three and a half year middle of the week.  Review what Paul wrote about it in 2 Thess.2:2 and 3. 

 

Quasar93

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Quasar93, with your confused hermenutic you have turned Paul's correction to the Thessalonian's into an incoherent mess. Your error is that you approached the text filtering all of it through your flawed pre-trib and faulty dispensational system.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul is talking about the parousia and our gathering unto Christ at that time

2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

He says before that day comes there will be a notable departure from the faith and the man of sin (the Beast) be revealed.

2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Beast will be revealed when he stands and sits in the temple shewing that he is God. Jesus spoke of this very thing in Matt 24:15 when he referenced Daniel's abomination of desolation. The revelation of the Beast takes place in the middle of the week after Satan is cast out of Heaven (Rev 12:12). It is at that time that Michael stands up and an unprecedented time of trouble begins (Dan 12:1).

2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Paul had already taught them these truths.

2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Paul said that they already knew what was restraining the revelation of the Beast until it is time for him.

2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Paul says that Satan is already at work but is restrained until Michael stands aside in the middle. "The way" is translated from mesos, which means middle.

(See Michael's relationship to the middle of the week on this forum)

2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Notice it is after the restrainer is removed that the Beast will be revealed. It is the same Beast that shall be vanquished after his 42 months are over. This will happen at the end of the week at the battle of Armageddon.

2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The Beast will be empowered by Satan and he will be performing lying wonders and will deceive all those who received not the love of the truth.

Hallelujah

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Satan's beast will come out of the abyss at the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel

This beast will then begin to deceive all on the earth, sit in the temple at the middle of the week, and utterly destroyed at the end of the week in the Lord's lake of fire

.... but just before the 70th week begins the Lord will call His own to immortality

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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9 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Satan's beast will come out of the abyss at the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel

This beast will then begin to deceive all on the earth, sit in the temple at the middle of the week, and utterly destroyed at the end of the week in the Lord's lake of fire

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Daniel 11:36, you pre-tribbers are great at making assertions but weak on evidence. What evidence do you have for your first statement? A few Scriptures that say what you have would be nice.

Hallelujah

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On 4/16/2018 at 7:44 AM, Quasar93 said:

The prophetic chronological order of end times events as outlined in the Bible are as follows:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed.  All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

2nd Thess 2:3 says:

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

what is is saying there, in specific sequence is that the apostasy and revelation of the man of lawlessness comes first!

Now, there is something, referred to as "it" in that verse, that therefore happens after the revelation of the man of lawlessness, if Paul is to be believed. What is this "it"? We need to back up to see what Paul is referring to in the previous verses:

 1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 

You can make up any sequence you like, and believe what you imagine. However, Paul specified that the revealing of the man of lawlessness happens before the coming of our Lord, and our gathering together to Him, is that not the rapture?

In 2nd Thessalonians, Paul is calming their fears, apparently the Thessalonians had received some sort of letter supposedly coming from him that got them upset an worried (reading from the context). Paul reminds them that he had previously addressed all this, so they should not be shaken. What had Paul previously said? Well, following in one thing:

13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Again, the living Christians are caught up to be with the Lord, caught up together with the Christians who had already passed on, caught up together to be with Jesus when He descends from heaven, caught up to be with them in the clouds, meeting them in the air. Is this not also, a description of the rapture?

So, according to Paul, and he says it is according that we say this by the word of the Lord, that the dead in Christ, rise first, the living to not preceed the dead in Christ, so again, there is a specific sequence. So far we have noted that

1. the the apostasy comes and the man of lawlessless is revealed

2. and after that, the gathering of the dead in Christ

3. then the living Christians fo to join them all meeting Christ in the air.

This rules out the possibility that the rapture is pre-tribulation, unless the apostasy and revelation of the man of sin, is also pre-tribulation. So the question needs to be asked, are these events before the tribulation?

When the dead in Christ are raised, what do we know about that in sequence with other things, than might be helpful to understand. Dead people raised to life, is there a word for that? Like resurrection perhaps?

In Revelation 20, verse 5, we see the phrase:

"This is the first resurrection" 

What are there any details about that? Sure are! In Rev 20:4 we see these illuminating details:

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Now THAT is chronologically loaded! Full of relevant information.  There we see dead people in heaven.  We can see that they are there, because they were beheaded, so we know how they died. We also see why that happened to them:

because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God

Their testimony of Jesus, identifies them as Christians.

The fact that they would not worship the beast or his image, and that they had not received the mark on their hand or forehead, provides us the info to show that they were in the tribulation.

Now, what is still missing, is the timing of this resurrection, we do know that these people were in the tribulation first, and so these people are not raptured pre-trib, it is not possible.

Of course, there is nothing here that conflicts with what Jesus said, and Paul might have been referring to what Jesus said (like to his disciples in Matt 24) when he was pointing this things out. For example, Jesus said not to be deceived, and that He would return to gather the elect, using the same sort of language that Paul used (shout, angels, clouds, trumpet). The order that Jesus gave was pretty specific also, but He said this things happen "
immediately after the tribulation of those days".

If these dots are properly connected, then the sequence likely is:

1. The 70th week of Daniel begins

2. In that 7 year period, the man of lawlessnless is revealed

3. likely that is mid-week, and then the great tribulation of about 3-1/2 years (according to Jesus) is on

4. immediatey after that, the Sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall

5. then the Son of Man will appear in the sky and be seen by all, coming on the clouds

6. the dead in Christ will rise in the 1st resurrection and meet the Lord in the air

7. then we (Christians) who are alive at that time, will be raptured (post-tribulation) to join the dead in Christ, made alive again and we will be changed (1 Cor 15:51)

8. Then we shall always be with the Lord. 

Comfort one another with these words. It might be proper to call the rapture "the Blessed Hope", but I think Jesus is our Blessed Hope. I believe, that according to scripture, a pre-trib rapture is just a false hope, and not a blessing at all, just a big disappointment for those expecting it.

Remember, the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.  2 Tim 4

I have wondered, and asked before, if we think that the time of refreshing should be considered to be any time before the tribulation. Maybe you do not know what I am referring to. The idea comes from the book of Acts, chapter 3:

19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

A pre-trib rapture is a pleasant thought, but it is foreign to the pages of scripture. I am not saying that that are not verses and passages that people interpret to imply a pre-trib rapture, certainly there are. What I am saying, is that there is no verse or passage (that I have noticed anyway), which requires such an interpretation, nor specifies such a sequence. Of course, you are free to believe what you will, and ones belief on this topic, does not make one a heretic, nor a grounds for division.

See also:

http://omegazine.com/nutshell.html 

http://omegazine.com/eschatology/bibledoesnotsay.html

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"Daniel 11:36, you pre-tribbers are great at making assertions but weak on evidence. What evidence do you have for your first statement? A few Scriptures that say what you have would be nice"

 

What I have said is there .... and much more

Read your Bible and find the truth

Edited by Daniel 11:36
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2 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Yes, The pre-trib satanic theory is a Devil's strategy to disarm believers for the battle that will take place now at the beginning of this first century of the seventh and last millennium or seventh and last Day (a Day for the Lord is like a thousand years and a thousand years as one Day. The fullness of Gentiles has already arrived and our Lord JESUS are already sat on the throne of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ.

 
The Most High and Almighty God has already ordained to cast down Satan in the bottomless pit, and to shut him up, and to set a seal upon him that he deceive the nations no more. This will happen through a great and strong war, as follow:

Rev.12:v.9-11:
Re.12:9 And the great Dragon(the red Dragon, that is Satan) was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Here goes where you can see and know who are the angels of Satan: 2Cor.11:v.13-15. They and a great multitude of unbelievers are at the left hand of the Lord JESUS, and are condemned to the everlasting fire, they already are and will be CURSED by the Lord JESUS as you can know through Mat.25:v.41)

Re.12:10 - And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Re.12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

It is not an awakening but a war movement against Satan and his armies, this is and will be a STRONG SPIRITUAL WAR, yes, a great spiritual war, in accord the prophetical message of JESUS in Revelation 16:v.13to16:
v.13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH of the Dragon, and out of the MOUTH of the Beast, and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet.
v.14 For they are the spirits of devils (A SATANIC TRINITY), working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that Great Day (NOW IS: THIS GREAT DAY) of God Almighty.   (Yea, this Great Day of God has already arrived, that is the seventh and last millennium, the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Judgment,  the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Millennium of Vengeance, in which we are living , that is the seventh and last Day, and Christ will come soon in accord His promise)
v.15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
v.16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


 If the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


Furthermore, no man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please Him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. (2 Ti. 2:v.4-5)
 

JESUS left very clear, saying: (Rev.2:26-29)
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
2
9 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.  

Amen, glory to God.  Power will be given to His (true) church to accomplish it's mission in the great end time battle.  This will be the fulness when the power is poured out, the 'balance owing' of the Holy Spirit upon His people.  The Bride is the white horse the Lord Jesus will ride into battle.

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