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The Biblical teachings of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church


Quasar93

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On 5/13/2018 at 3:11 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

Matthew 24 is specifically about the Lord speaking with Israel

Now lets drop the conversation

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Daniel 11:36, I'm interested in, what coming events would be necessary for you to witness that would cause you to change your mind about the timing of the rapture.

If you see the Temple rebuilt in Jerusalem will you forsake your delusion of a pre-seventieth week rapture? Or the resumption of the daily sacrifice and oblation will you then cast aside this spurious teaching? What about seeing the covenant confirmed with many, will you then realize you are wrong? Or maybe when you see or hear of Elijah of whom it was prophesied that He would come before the day of the LORD to turn the hearts of the sons to the fathers and the hearts of the fathers to the sons. Would you then cast off this falsehood that you so vehemently defend? Or will it take the announcement by the powers that be that everyone is to receive a mark without which no man may buy or sell. Will you then stop your foolishness? Or will you take this mark foolishly thinking that this can't be the mark of the Beast because you're sure that you will be raptured before it comes along? What about seeing the man of sin sitting in the Temple claiming to be God, will that do it? Maybe you'll change your tune when your family and many others that you know, whom had professed Christ, fall away and worship the Beast?

Who will be lost to you and Christ forever because they were never told that they may have to face affliction, starvation, and/or death to own the name of Christ. What will it take for you to warn those you love about the coming unprecedented persecution and deception instead of setting them at ease with the promise of a great escape that will not come until after great tribulation?

There is coming a test for all true believers that will demonstrate that their faith is real, but the "professors" whose faith is in something other than the person and work of Christ will be exposed by this same tribulation.

If you would just believe the warnings of Christ and of Paul, both told of the revelation of the Beast and the falling away due to persecution and deception. They both said that Christ wouldn't come to gather His own unto Himself until after these things happen. Wake up man, you still have time to help those you love.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto Jesus Christ our Lord

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25 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

I'm interested in, what coming events would be necessary for you to witness that would cause you to change your mind about the timing of the rapture

I've wondered that as well, especially now that we are more than 70 years beyond the date of the establishing of the state if Israel.  A lot of dispensational pretribbers thought 40 years from that day was going to be significant (88 reasons for the rapture in 1988, etc.) and when that didn't happen, "this generation" changed from 40 to 70 years.  And now that didn't happened.

Ultimately, it will come down to our lifestyle worship of God in spirit and truth.  That's how we acquire the discernment necessary to distinguish between good and evil.  That's what will cause a change of mind.  "Events" are subject to our interpretation of prophecy.  Will there be a seven-year deal, or a rebuilt temple?  Debatable, and it doesn't really matter.  The choices we make are what matters, and what is it that guides our decisions?

  • That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun.  Ecclesiastes 1:9
  • If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.  Deuteronomy 13:1-3
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IT IS WHAT IT IS
seven dispensations of The Word.jpg

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8 hours ago, enoob57 said:

IT IS WHAT IT IS
seven dispensations of The Word.jpg

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

enoob57, nice graphic, but it's wrong. Jesus has one future parousia, not two. Also there is not seven or even 3.5 years between Christ's arrival to gather His own unto Himself and His destruction of the Beast and the armies that follow him that John witnessed as recorded in Rev 19. Here are some explicit statements of the Scriptures that will help you out with your chart.

1) The church is not appointed unto the wrath of God which takes place upon the day of the Lord. (1Thes 5:9, 2-3)

2) The day that the church rests from persecution is the day that God begins to tribulate our persecutors. This happens at His revelation. (2Thes 1:6-10)

3) The day of our rescue (rapture) is the day that God's wrath begins to fall upon the unbelieving earth-dwellers. (Luke 17:26-30)

4) Joel and Peter said that there would be a notable cosmic sign before the day of the Lord would come. (Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20)

5) John describes seeing this cosmic sign after the opening of the sixth seal, where it portends the day of the Lord. (Rev 6:12-17)

6) The beginning of the day of the Lord or the day of Christ involves the coming (parousia = arrival and continuing presence) of our lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him (rapture). (2Thes 2:1-2)

7) Jesus said His coming would follow the cosmic sign that ends (immediately after) the great tribulation. (Matt 24:29-30, 27, 21)

8) Jesus said His coming would begin with His revelation for every eye to see. (Matt 24:30; Rev 1:7)

9) Jesus said that His revelation would be followed by Him sending His angels to gather the elect to Him in the clouds. (Matt 24:31)

10) Paul spoke of the same gathering at Christ's parousia (vs 15) and mentioned that the resurrection would precede it. (1Thes 4:15-17)

11) Daniel speaks of the resurrection that it takes place after the unprecedented time of trouble. (Dan 12:1-2)

12) Paul says that at the resurrection even the living believer will be changed and be made immortal. (1Cor 15:51-53)

13) John records that this resurrection includes those who suffered persecution at the hand of the Beast. (Rev 20:4-6)

14) John records the resurrected/raptured Saints before the Father's throne in Heaven. (Rev 7:9-17)

15) After we are safely before the throne in the fathers house, the seventh seal is opened by Christ and the first trumpet is blown beginning the pouring out of His wrath. This takes place upon the same day as our rapture. (Rev 8; Luke 17:26-30)

Just as God has continued to deal with the Jew since the church began (In the beginning the church was entirely made up of Jews, first gentiles added to the Church was Acts 10, 70 AD destruction of the Temple and later scattering among the nations, 1948 restoration of the nation of Israel, presently provoking them to jealously by the salvation of the Gentiles) so also the church shall continue into the seventieth week which is determined upon Israel and Jerusalem. Peter, by quoting Joel, under the moving of the Holy Spirit, gave us the parameters of the Church Age. The giving of the Holy Spirit to indwell the believer began the Church age, the day of the Lord will end it. (Acts 2:16-21)

All glory be unto the Lamb.

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On 4/16/2018 at 9:12 AM, Quasar93 said:

The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven?

Dear Quasar93, I fail to see where you identified who the saints caught up to be with Jesus prior to the tribulation are identified as, or the churches of Revelation chapters two & three they come from. Do you know, or are you interested? It may have already been brought out in the remaining replies of this thread which I have not read. Thanks

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9 hours ago, Larry 2 said:

Dear Quasar93, I fail to see where you identified who the saints caught up to be with Jesus prior to the tribulation are identified as, or the churches of Revelation chapters two & three they come from. Do you know, or are you interested? It may have already been brought out in the remaining replies of this thread which I have not read. Thanks

 

The "seven" churches recorded in Rev.2 and 3, are one and the same body of Christ, in the various stages of the entire church age.  The ELECT of Mt.24:31 are: Those the angels will gather from the four winds, is Israel.  Those they will gather from one end of heaven to the other, is the church Jesus will rapture seven years before, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. 

The church is seen in heaven, symbolically as John, before the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.  They are see later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in Rev.19:7-8.  Jesus will then return to earth WITH His Church, "...riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, whit and clean. in His armies from heaven," in verse 14.

Hope that helps.

 

Quasar93

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1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

The "seven" churches recorded in Rev.2 and 3, are one and the same body of Christ, in the various stages of the entire church age.  The ELECT of Mt.24:31 are: Those the angels will gather from the four winds, is Israel.  Those they will gather from one end of heaven to the other, is the church Jesus will rapture seven years before, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. 

The church is seen in heaven, symbolically as John, before the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.  They are see later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in Rev.19:7-8.  Jesus will then return to earth WITH His Church, "...riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, whit and clean. in His armies from heaven," in verse 14.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. Would you possibly consider that the 24 elders and the 4 beasts, or Living ones constitute the pre-trib saints? If not who do you think they are?

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On 5/11/2018 at 1:33 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

And you will find out that it is son

In all likelihood some form of peace in Israel with the Palestinians should come about now that the US embassy is in Jerusalem. For real it's about time. Even Saudi Arabia has called out the Palestinian failure to agree to the many offers of peace from Israel. The Hamas spurred rioting of the Palestinians will only drive the process.

You will probably think this will signal the pretrib rapture but you would be mistaken. The beginning of the end comes after a confirmation of an existing agreement.

Palestine will want East Jerusalem as their capitol. Israel will balk at this unless some concession is made, and I'm thinking it will involve the Temple Mount. Israel wants a Temple. They have prepared for this over the decades, everything is ready: cornerstone, materials, furnishings, vessels, priests, animals, and they have been practicing the liturgy and rituals. Reality is about to intrude into the pretrib fantasy.

But no entity can assure the safety of Israel in the building of the Temple. That is until a strong leader rises. One with supernatural power. 

That day is coming. Best prepare your heart and spirit.  

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9 hours ago, Larry 2 said:

Thanks. Would you possibly consider that the 24 elders and the 4 beasts, or Living ones constitute the pre-trib saints? If not who do you think they are?

 

 

For the best understanding of the prophetic Scriptures, it is best to do so literally.  Not by attempting to do so by allegorical or spiritualization of it.  You have listed three groups in your above post.  I can only provide you answers for the 24 Elders and the 4 beasts, because you have not sufficiently identified who you are referring to by "living ones."  Provide the Scriptures from where you are drawing it from and I'll do my best to answer it for you;

Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

The twenty four Elders around the throne of God, represent the twenty four courses of the Levitical priesthood, with one priest for each course seated on each of the twenty four thrones.

As recorded in 1 Chr.24:7-18. In Jer.33:17-18: "For this is what the Lord says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, NOR WILL THE PRIESTS, who are Levites ever fail to have before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.'" See also 2 Sam.7 for God's promise to David.

There are many who attempt to identify them as the twelve apostles and twelve of the old testament saints, but there is nothing in the Bible to support this theory or any of the others, except the one above.

 
The four great beasts of Daniel 7 -

In Daniel's chapter 7 dream we find: Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7:4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...Babylon
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...Medo Persia
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...Greece
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly...Rome

In the verse below we learn that in the figurative language of a vision or dream in prophecy, a "beast" is a kingdom or empire.  With the exception of the beast out of the sea and the beast put of the earth in Rev.13, who are the Antichrist and the False Prophet. 

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

BEAST = KINGDOM

There is a broad agreement among Jewish and Christian scholars that the kingdoms represented by Daniel's lion, bear and leopard, are the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, followed by the fourth "terrible" beast, that is understood to be the Roman Empire.

This conclusion is reached within the traditional continuous-historic context of prophecy. This is simply the view that bible prophecy is fulfilled steadily, as the era about which it is written gradually unfolds. This is the context in which virtually all Christians and Jews understand Old Testament prophecy.



Quasar93
Edited by Quasar93
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22 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

 

For the best understanding of the prophetic Scriptures, it is best to do so literally.  Not by attempting to do so by allegorical or spiritualization of it.  You have listed three groups in your above post.  I can only provide you answers for the 24 Elders and the 4 beasts, because you have not sufficiently identified who you are referring to by "living ones."  Provide the Scriptures from where you are drawing it from and I'll do my best to answer it for you;

Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

The twenty four Elders around the throne of God, represent the twenty four courses of the Levitical priesthood, with one priest for each course seated on each of the twenty four thrones.

As recorded in 1 Chr.24:7-18. In Jer.33:17-18: "For this is what the Lord says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, NOR WILL THE PRIESTS, who are Levites ever fail to have before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.'" See also 2 Sam.7 for God's promise to David.

There are many who attempt to identify them as the twelve apostles and twelve of the old testament saints, but there is nothing in the Bible to support this theory or any of the others, except the one above.

 
The four great beasts of Daniel 7 -

In Daniel's chapter 7 dream we find: Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7:4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...Babylon
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...Medo Persia
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...Greece
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly...Rome

In the verse below we learn that in the figurative language of a vision or dream in prophecy, a "beast" is a kingdom or empire.  With the exception of the beast out of the sea and the beast put of the earth in Rev.13, who are the Antichrist and the False Prophet. 

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

BEAST = KINGDOM

There is a broad agreement among Jewish and Christian scholars that the kingdoms represented by Daniel's lion, bear and leopard, are the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, followed by the fourth "terrible" beast, that is understood to be the Roman Empire.

This conclusion is reached within the traditional continuous-historic context of prophecy. This is simply the view that bible prophecy is fulfilled steadily, as the era about which it is written gradually unfolds. This is the context in which virtually all Christians and Jews understand Old Testament prophecy.



Quasar93

I like that. A clear connection between points. 24 priests, 24 elders. That makes sense, bound by what could be common purpose, ministering before the Lord, officials of the priesthood reflecting the hierarchy of the heavens. 

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