Our personal relationship with Christ

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

I pray and plead that you do try to prayerfully understand what our friendnt is saying, it's truly worth it.....Godly wisdom, praise the Lord.  It is showing examples of times in the bible when people had peace in some wrong understanding.....and the Lord in His love and care and wisdom had to disturb their peace for their own sakes, and for His purposes and glory.  Glory to Jesus.....precious truth.

Jesus has food for you. 

[Not me]

21 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I am trying with examples to show that following the peace in our heart is not an indication that we follow Jesus in specific situations.   

Here is an example, we know that by the time Peter was asked by the Lord to go to Cornelius house  who were. (unsircumsine Gentiles)And it was forbidden to enter a Gentiles house, and Peter has never enter or proposed to enter into one, and neither any of the disciples, because of the Law of clean and unclean, that they believe they will loose the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit will not associate with anything unclean. 

So as a result Peter was deeply trouble in himself, in his heart. 

And he could have guarded his heart or the peace in his heart by rebuking the Spirit that trouble his heart perceiving it as a deceiving spirit, the reason being that the Holy Spirit was guiding him in a new understanding. 

It was leading him in Jesus way , a new way of Jesus having made everything clean, that the Gentiles or unclean Jews they did not need to be made clean by the Jewish customs, because the whole world was made clean by the blood of Jesus Christ, one new man in the world, no more Jew and Gentiles.  

The same thing can happen to us, that time being indroduce to something new may trouble our heart, that's how we renew our mind and reprogrammed our selfs. Later when the other disciples at first heard the events of Peter entering Cornelius house, they said that Peter followed a strange spirit. 

 

Dear sister; 

Having read through the Story of Peter an Cornelius I could not find where it Peter was “deeply troubled in Himself” I checked a couple of translations and it uses the words “Peter doubted in himself ” and Peter “wondered in himself ” but I couldn’t find where it said Peter was “deeply troubled in himself” wondering and doubting are different than being “deeply troubled.”  But for argument sake let say there the same. That still doesn’t mean Peter lost the “peace of Christ in his heart”. When it talks of Peter “doubting in himself” it was in relation to the vision he’d just seen. That’s what gave him pause or doubts or wonderment for he knew not the meaning of the vision. He learned that later. For an believer can be wondering/doubting about many things without losing their “peace of Christ in their hearts”

You also said the disciples said he had a strange spirit. In acts 

Acts 11:2 (NIV)
So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him

They “criticized him” but that’s a far cry from saying he had a “strange spirit.”

You also said Peter could have rebuked the Spirit but the word  “Spirit” was never used . And even if it was, don’t you think that Peter, a disciple that loved Jesus, knew the voice of the one he loved? After all he was an Apostle of Christ? Why would he deliberately want to sin? 

Unless I’m missing something?

But it does say in 

Colossians 3:15 (NIV)
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

That word rule  can also be translated as “arbitrate” meaning the scripture could be translated as “let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your heart” in other words, let it be the decider. Or in layman’s terms. If something upsets the “peace of Christ in your heart” do something different or the bare minimum go the God and ask why you’ve lost your peace. For sin or disobedience (know or unknown) will cause a believer to lose there peace. But than as soon as a believer repents and confesses his sin, the joy and peace of Christ returns. So yes listening to what the “peace of Christ says in your heart” is one and  only way a believer can be lead by the Spirit of God, for where else does the Spirit reside but in the believers heart? For listening to what the Spirit of God says in you is what’s important, for that’s how God speaks to His children. That is why building ones personal relationship with Christ is so vital. For the closer we get to Christ the easier it is to hear His voice/Spirit. For until that relationship is built it is easy for one to be lead astay “by every wind of doctrine”

Much love in Christ, Not me

Edited April 23, 2018 by Not me

[Dan_79]

My personal relationship with Christ is just that, personal.

[Not me]

1 minute ago, Dan_79 said:

My personal relationship with Christ is just that, personal.

Dear Brother; 

Absolutely, all our relationships with Christ are personal. Our salvation is personal also. That’s why we are told to “work out our own salvation” for no one can do it for us. It is that one and one relationship with Christ that a believer has, that is his lifeline. And it is exactly that. His lifeline, for without it no one will see life. But you know all these things. So blessing to you, and may Christ dwell in our hearts by faith. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

[Your closest friendnt]

12 hours ago, Not me said:

HELLO BROTHER YCF; 

Having read through the Story of Peter an Cornelius I could not find where it Peter was “deeply troubled in Himself” I checked a couple of translations and it uses the words “Peter doubted in himself ” and Peter “wondered in himself ” but I couldn’t find where it said Peter was “deeply troubled in himself” wondering and doubting are different than being “deeply troubled.”  But for argument sake let say there the same. That still doesn’t mean Peter lost the “peace of Christ in his heart”. When it talks of Peter “doubting in himself” it was in relation to the vision he’d just seen. That’s what gave him pause or doubts or wonderment for he knew not the meaning of the vision. He learned that later. For an believer can be wondering/doubting about many things without losing their “peace of Christ in their hearts”

You also said the disciples said he had a strange spirit. In acts 

Acts 11:2 (NIV)
So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him

They “criticized him” but that’s a far cry from saying he had a “strange spirit.”

You also said Peter could have rebuked the Spirit but the word  “Spirit” was never used . And even if it was, don’t you think that Peter, a disciple that loved Jesus, knew the voice of the one he loved? After all he was an Apostle of Christ? Why would he deliberately want to sin? 

Unless I’m missing something?

But it does say in 

Colossians 3:15 (NIV)
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

That word rule  can also be translated as “arbitrate” meaning the scripture could be translated as “let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your heart” in other words, let it be the decider. Or in layman’s terms. If something upsets the “peace of Christ in your heart” do something different or the bare minimum go the God and ask why you’ve lost your peace. For sin or disobedience (know or unknown) will cause a believer to lose there peace. But than as soon as a believer repents and confesses his sin, the joy and peace of Christ returns. So yes listening to what the “peace of Christ says in your heart” is one and  only way a believer can be lead by the Spirit of God, for where else does the Spirit reside but in the believers heart? For listening to what the Spirit of God says in you is what’s important, for that’s how God speaks to His children. That is why building ones personal relationship with Christ is so vital. For the closer we get to Christ the easier it is to hear His voice/Spirit. For until that relationship is built it is easy for one to be lead astay “by every wind of doctrine”

Much love in Christ, Not me

It's easy to understand my posting, by correctly connecting to the context, a lexicon is a helping tool, but also one may be lost, and sidestep . 

General knowledge of how the Jews relate to turms "clean and unclean " in this specific situation can be the help to understand Peter's reactive mind in the story of Cornelius. 

Rule no: 1. 

The Lord in the Old Covenant is dead. 

His rain has finish, his Covenant with Moses and the people of the house of. Jacob is finish the testator has left the earth and the people, 

Like when the Sun sets, disconects with the people on this side and conects with the people on the other side. 

When the New day , the Sun has a New Covenant a New Glory as they say for better things.

The disciples of Jesus Christ the author of the New Covenant, 

Was also the author of the old Covenant in his previous state before he was conceived in the flesh, naked he enter the or our world. 

He brought with him only the Life. 

In the old under the Law, the Lord was clean and Holy, and he will not assossiate with anything unclean . 

The Gentiles were unclean and unholy by their inheritance. 

They were cut off without any eligibility, (later the eligibility of the procilite). 

The Jews and the rest of the tribes, by birth they had inheritance in the old, if they made use of their eligibility. 

If they became unclean they were cut off, till the time to be considered clean again .

The botom line, the. Lord in the old would not been found or assosiate. With unclean Jews. 

So to tell Peter to connect and eat of the unclean is like or the same as identifying him self as unclean or cut off from the Lord (in the old),

But what a strange situation in the. .vision, we see that the Lord in the New Covenant, is in Heaven , because the net or the fabric, or canvas that containt the unclean animals.

The Lord was telling Peter the unclean animals are my food, you too come and eat with me.

If you examine carefully Peter's answer is. Suggesting that the one who talking to Peter is an unclean Lord, so to speak according to the old he must have not been the Lord but some imposter, as when Jesus when he was tempted in the dessert. 

But Peter knew the voice of the Lord, or he knew when he was connected with Jesus, or the Lord had train him to understand him. 

But still , Peter knew the comandmens of the old and he voice his objection. 

A series of things happen that Peter was persuaded to follow and took some elders with. Him for his witness. Or the Lord made him do it, because he was about to teach them something knew. 

The result was the Holy Spirit fall upon the uncircumcised unclean Gentiles. 

Even the elders present were in disbelief, but they wittness the same signes present as in the day of Penticost.  

Now this thing to a Jew or to a Jew Christian was unacceptable according to the OLD, because the Lord will never associate with anything uclean. 

So their nature and sober reaction whould be that this is not the Lord but some strange unclean spirit, an imposter. 

If you tell a Jew even today he will tell you the samething. 

And many of the Jews Christians that time did not accept what happened, as they did not understand that things have changed. 

That we are in the NEW COVENANT AND  JESUS CHRIST is the Christ. 

The New has come in many things, the same message was given to Paul, in his revelation from Jesus CHRIST. 

That cause the believers to split in more than one group. 

The sircumsision group was strong because they had to faction in a sircumsize culture living among the Jews of the old..........

They did not understand that with the knew Covenant everything has been made New, the things in Heaven, on Earth and under the Earth, that's what the disciples teach and promote. 

All their teachings has the elements of the New Heaven and EARTH. 

[Not me]

5 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

It's easy to understand my posting, by correctly connecting to the context, a lexicon is a helping tool, but also one may be lost, and sidestep . 

General knowledge of how the Jews relate to turms "clean and unclean " in this specific situation can be the help to understand Peter's reactive mind in the story of Cornelius. 

Rule no: 1. 

The Lord in the Old Covenant is dead. 

His rain has finish, his Covenant with Moses and the people of the house of. Jacob is finish the testator has left the earth and the people, 

Like when the Sun sets, disconects with the people on this side and conects with the people on the other side. 

When the New day , the Sun has a New Covenant a New Glory as they say for better things.

The disciples of Jesus Christ the author of the New Covenant, 

Was also the author of the old Covenant in his previous state before he was conceived in the flesh, naked he enter the or our world. 

He brought with him only the Life. 

In the old under the Law, the Lord was clean and Holy, and he will not assossiate with anything unclean . 

The Gentiles were unclean and unholy by their inheritance. 

They were cut off without any eligibility, (later the eligibility of the procilite). 

The Jews and the rest of the tribes, by birth they had inheritance in the old, if they made use of their eligibility. 

If they became unclean they were cut off, till the time to be considered clean again .

The botom line, the. Lord in the old would not been found or assosiate. With unclean Jews. 

So to tell Peter to connect and eat of the unclean is like or the same as identifying him self as unclean or cut off from the Lord (in the old),

But what a strange situation in the. .vision, we see that the Lord in the New Covenant, is in Heaven , because the net or the fabric, or canvas that containt the unclean animals.

The Lord was telling Peter the unclean animals are my food, you too come and eat with me.

If you examine carefully Peter's answer is. Suggesting that the one who talking to Peter is an unclean Lord, so to speak according to the old he must have not been the Lord but some imposter, as when Jesus when he was tempted in the dessert. 

But Peter knew the voice of the Lord, or he knew when he was connected with Jesus, or the Lord had train him to understand him. 

But still , Peter knew the comandmens of the old and he voice his objection. 

A series of things happen that Peter was persuaded to follow and took some elders with. Him for his witness. Or the Lord made him do it, because he was about to teach them something knew. 

The result was the Holy Spirit fall upon the uncircumcised unclean Gentiles. 

Even the elders present were in disbelief, but they wittness the same signes present as in the day of Penticost.  

Now this thing to a Jew or to a Jew Christian was unacceptable according to the OLD, because the Lord will never associate with anything uclean. 

So their nature and sober reaction whould be that this is not the Lord but some strange unclean spirit, an imposter. 

If you tell a Jew even today he will tell you the samething. 

And many of the Jews Christians that time did not accept what happened, as they did not understand that things have changed. 

That we are in the NEW COVENANT AND  JESUS CHRIST is the Christ. 

The New has come in many things, the same message was given to Paul, in his revelation from Jesus CHRIST. 

That cause the believers to split in more than one group. 

The sircumsision group was strong because they had to faction in a sircumsize culture living among the Jews of the old..........

They did not understand that with the knew Covenant everything has been made New, the things in Heaven, on Earth and under the Earth, that's what the disciples teach and promote. 

All their teachings has the elements of the New Heaven and EARTH. 

Dear YCF

Your statements above about the Gentiles and the Jews being clean and unclean are scripturaly sound. But when you ascribe motives to Peter;  From a unregenerated man to a regenerated man. This is like saying that because a unregenerated man sins and loves to sin, therefore a regenerated man loves to sin. This is not scriptural. For with the new birth, comes “all things become new” included motivations. So you cannot ascribed fallen motivation to the new creation.

You said with a careful, reading you will see that Peter thought he was talking to a “strange spirit” this is not what scripture says. For it says quite plainly that Peter called Him “Lord” showing that he new exactly who he was talking to. Scripture says, he was doubting or wondering after the vision. Why? For the same reason, when he stepped out of the boat he started to sink.  His human reasoning told him he had to believe what his eyes told him rather than what Jesus said. Just the same here. His human reasoning told him that he had to believe what the old covenant taught rather than what the Spirit of Christ was  telling him. It was this leaning on his human reasoning that brought the doubt or the wondering.

What happened right after the learning of the ear was completed. (the vision).  The sheet was raised. Now it was time for Peter to learn this new thing by experience. So the men arrived. And he went with them to learn by experience that which the Lord has just revealed to Him. Than in verse 34 Peter  says “of a truth I perceive God is no respecter of person”. Or in other words he had learned by experience what the vision had taught him by words. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

Edited April 23, 2018 by Not me

[warrior12]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:35 AM, Heleadethme said:

No, not by the letter of the word......I dont' want to seem to be better than I am, I still have lots of sharpening to do......but I can say that it is BY HIS SPIRIT that He opens HIS WORD to our understanding, and engraves it on our hearts and puts it in our mouths.  We cannot afford to play fast and loose with our own ideas and spirits in the last days.....we better be sure what we believe and bring is of the Lord and not the voice/words of one who looks like a lamb but speaks like a serpent.  Because we are not going to win the battle with a dull sword, either........or no sword.......or a deceptive sword.

Was reading through the thread and saw the above and a thought ran through my mind and so I am putting it in a question which maybe a common one.  Here goes.  If as your quote "BY HIS SPIRIT that He opens HIS WORD to our understanding, and engraves it on our hearts and puts it in our mouths"  we all read the same scripture, why then so much differentiation  in our explanations that has been going on for eons. Just an example, OSAS  as a topic can bring tons of pages on a thread with many for and against.  Is it not the same spirit engraving our hearts as believers studying the word ?.   

[Your closest friendnt]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

If that is the premise, the rest is false. The LORD of the Old Covenant is the exact same LORD as you find in the New Covenant. He is alive.

I don't need to tell you that, you know that the Old Covenant died on the Cross. 

They put their King and Lord to death on the Cross, 

At the same time they cause the shedding of the blood of the NEW COVENANT. 

They are without a Lord and without a God, and without a Covenant. 

The vail was torn the worship in the Temple is finish, the Priesthood has ended. 

They are invited to the new covenant if they believe. 

If not they are in their sins. 

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob are in the NEW COVENANT. 

By dead I did not mean what you made out of it. 

I don't realy know how you perceive it. 

Their Lord God born in Bethlehem died on the Cross, it is finish on the Cross, there is no more animal sacrifices. 

It was foretold , the animal sacrifices will seige , the covenant they continued to ratified , the attonment seige. No

attonment they remain in their sins.

[Your closest friendnt]

58 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

Was reading through the thread and saw the above and a thought ran through my mind and so I am putting it in a question which maybe a common one.  Here goes.  If as your quote "BY HIS SPIRIT that He opens HIS WORD to our understanding, and engraves it on our hearts and puts it in our mouths"  we all read the same scripture, why then so much differentiation  in our explanations that has been going on for eons. Just an example, OSAS  as a topic can bring tons of pages on a thread with many for and against.  Is it not the same spirit engraving our hearts as believers studying the word ?.   

Hello Warrior12, 

I always read your post multiple times. 

And I very carefull to not misunderstood you. 

So I will give my input in this matter, so I do not need to apologize to you for misquoting. 

In the Old , the people without the Spirit of God, they were given the Law to be taught and memorize it and repeat it till was engrave in their hearts. 

The guidance came from without and stored within, in their minds and their hearts. 

Of course they had their own spirits, and they can have a spiritual connection with them selfs , their minds and their spirits tdid not agree all the time and so on.

In the New Covenant in addition, we have the Spirit of the Lord to guide us.

And his guidance is not the same for everyone.

We have the general guidance and the very specific guidance.

The specific guidance is taylor made for everyone its own.

One example is when Paul is saying to the Jews believers leave the Gentiles alone, the Lord has a different path for them, they come from a. Diferent background to not put a heavy yok on them, he will lead them in another way. 

There is an inner leading, but we ofend are indoctrinated, and follow our doctrines leading......

Another example is when Peter saw the Holy Spirit fall upon the Gentiles, he said: 

Then I remember what Jonh the Baptist said: that he -referring to Jesus CHRIST- will baptize them with fire. 

Here the Holy Spirit in his heart, brought something that Peter had heard in his memmory, to tell him that he is witnessing being fullfiled. And for us and the people of that time -Gentiles unsircumsize- not to say something against it. 

And if they do Peter had the wittness it was the Holy Spirit. 

Similar situations we may all of us have experience..

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Your closest friendnt

[warrior12]

19 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In the New Covenant we have the Spirit of the Lord to guide us.

And his guidance is not the same for everyone.

We have the general guidance and the very specific guidance.

The specific guidance is taylor made for everyone its own.

One example is when Paul is saying to the Jews believers leave the Gentiles alone, the Lord has a different path for them, they come from a. Diferent background to not put a heavy yok on them, he will lead them in another way. 

There is an inner leading, but we ofend are indoctrinated, and follow our doctrines leading......

 

Understood duff.  My main point though is same spirit with two different extremes outcome.  I am not discrediting anyone'e revelations that they get when they study scripture, it is just my human mind trying to understand how we can have different interpretations if we are led by the same spirit.  Is one in error  and the other truth.  Anyway, just wanted to get some kinda feedback to see how.  

Now to the extreme, we have denominations and some of them are because of differences on things like tongues ect.   I know I am asking a difficult question, so we can leave it there  at your answer. Thanks bro .