A Plea to the Wise... and a Warning to the Unwise

[Neighbor]

39 minutes ago, pg4Him said:

 

No one would disagree that the majority of the church is weak. No one here has argued otherwise. The sticking point has nothing to do with the behavior of the unwashed masses.

Why is no one telling them how it works? That is the question.

Them? It?

My Lord is not weak. 

The local body of Christ which the Holy Spirit calls me to serve is not weak.

The saints within this local body are not weak in any sense of the word.

Each  are busy going about the business of God the Father serving Jesus by the lead of the Holy Spirit relying on the word of God the Holy Bible.

That is the church I know. 

 I know the strong church of my Lord and savior Jesus because the Holy Spirit pulled me to it.

I do not lament that the pastor gets paid or that there are several elders or that there  are deacons and deaconesses.

 I ask in my prayer how I might pay more directly, or if I should leave that to the leadership as organized so that I am not disruptive in any way that may cause discord within the local body of Christ. 

I do not lament about the various missionaries going out from the body nor the cost of supporting them. Instead, I am led by the mindset found within the Elders that the local body need step up and fund totally our home grown missionaries, so that they do not have need to go about begging from other churches for their support.

 I reject the idea that there are no good churches, and that  there are no serious saints! 

Praise God for the local body of Christ Jesus where my physical and my spiritual support comes from, in both my deep times of harsh and very serious troubles, and in my highest times of victories with easy to come by joys.

 I love that God has sent me to excellent local bodies of Christ as He has moved me across this country, the USA. And I especially treasure that they,  the saints at each local body of Christ Jesus, have been so welcoming, supportive, and sharing of God with me.

Without the encouragement of the individuals and the individual leaders under anointment by God to His service, this soldier  in the army of the Lord would have fallen long long ago.

Praise God!

[Gideon]

24 minutes ago, Butero said:

I am trying to reach everyone I can reach with the message of the gospel, not the message of a future awakening.  

And so what do we  tell the alcoholic, or the drug addict, or the man bound by unforgiveness or sexual lusts what the gospel will do for him? That you are forgiven but sorry, until you die, just keep repenting and sinning again? Is that the extent of God’s power to save? Is that being freed from the power of darkness? If we cannot figure out how to actually walk in victory over our “small” sins, what do we have to offer those truly bound? 

God WILL awaken those in the highways and byways, the poor, the lame, the blind, the bound.... those who KNOW they need a doctor. And yes, this amazing event is scriptural. His house will be full because God loves us. But lest we forget, those who were content with things just the way they are, saying “we have need of nothing” when in fact they could not see they were far from God’s heart on the matter, found Jesus still on the outside, knocking to get in. 

What we are presently offering is forgiveness but with no way to fight off satan’s temptations or attacks without caving to them. It leaves us with a choice. Either lower the standard and make holiness and real victory a nice “goal” that is impossible to hit, or, to make the gospel a rule book that none can actually keep.

There is a third option, but how difficult it is to awaken people to admit their need of it. God longs to live through us, in us, yoked together in intimacy, and actually cause us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Why any child of God would not drop everything and run for that is beyond me, but the enemy has blinded our hearts... temporarilly. 

We will all be awakened to what the full gospel promises  us... victory over the world the flesh and the devil, but first, we are going to have to break and tell God that we need it... desperately. That is the part some will have to wait on. But for those who are desperate to find freedom from the chains of sin and the self love that binds us, not a day, nor an hour nor a minute need pass.

Ask, and you shall receive, that your joy might be full.. 

I love you brother,

Gideon

[pg4Him]

22 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

 

 I reject the idea that there are no good churches, and that  there are no serious saints! 

Since you quoted me, I will respond. When I speak of the majority, I’m including those in watered-down megachurches, those taken in by cults, and those who think they’re fine because they grew up in church. They comprise an unfortunate majority of “Christians” these days. 

I never said, nor implied, nor meant to imply that we have no good churches. Butero and I have been here suggesting there are indeed many saints walking in victory in many good churches. 

Gideon won’t give us a straight answer on whether there are victorious saints in the church or not. One minute he will say there are, but when we pin him down on the logical result of that, he spins away to suggest otherwise. That’s what this debate is about. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by pg4Him

[PledgedToGod]

   I am wondering if you all have different definitions for the term "Awakening" and if that is partly responsible for all this confusion and debate.

   To me, an awakening is a returning of the presence of God and an outpouring of His Spirit on the people brought on by the humbling of ourselves before Him along with prayer and repentance.

   It is my opinion that there will be both a falling away and an awakening at the end, though I prefer the term "purifying" to awakening. In the last days, we will be unable to straddle the fence. We will confess and surrender to Christ or deny him. Don't get me wrong, it's always been this way we've just blurred the lines. There will be the two extremes and many will choose the "easier" path, thus the falling away. At the same time, those that choose to stand with Christ in the fire will have to rely on Him so completely that they will walk powerfully in the Spirit and in faith. The Church will be "purified".

[Gideon]

29 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Gideon I heard you say you used to be a critical legalist .   I am going to ask you a question and I will not attack you one bit for your answer whether it is right or wrong .

Do you think I am like YOU used to be .   be honest .  

Brother, I know you have a good heart. It is evident in your posts that you long for the lost to get saved and fro the saved to walk like it. That is my heart too. 

Beforexmy visitation,  I too had a heart that wanted those things, and I saw extremely clearly that the church overall was a mess of compromise, lukewarmness and teaching error. But I had no answer for people as to how to change rather than what I call “the gospel according to Nike”..... JUST DO IT. 

But here was the thing. I could not do it. I wanted to. I wanted to be kind and patient and loving. I wanted to stop the sexual sins that had me by the neck. I hated myself and that came across as hardness to others. I was a son of thunder but could not see that I lacked grace because I was not receiving it myself.

Oh, I had grace to forgive me, again and again, but shamefully, there were times that I spchose to sin, knowing full well that what I was about to do was evil, and yet, I trusted that because I was saved, I could confess it and it would all be ok. I say that to my shame. I could not lower the standard of walking holy before the Lord, but by not doing so, I was always bound by guilt and self condemnation even of God did not condemn me. Walking in the rest, where ai could cease from my own efforts to be a good Christian? Ha! That was unheard of, before that night eleven years ago, 

So, it is not up to me to judge anything about you. You simply can look at my description of me, and apply it to your own heart. If by chance you do see a silmilarity, and like I was, wa dying of hunger even in my zeal for God, God has a rest for you this very day. nO waiting! LOL. 

I love you brother. 

Gideon

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Brother, I know you have a good heart. It is evident in your posts that you long for the lost to get saved and fro the saved to walk like it. That is my heart too. 

Beforexmy visitation,  I too had a heart that wanted those things, and I saw extremely clearly that the church overall was a mess of compromise, lukewarmness and teaching error. But I had no answer for people as to how to change rather than what I call “the gospel according to Nike”..... JUST DO IT. 

But here was the thing. I could not do it. I wanted to. I wanted to be kind and patient and loving. I wanted to stop the sexual sins that had me by the neck. I hated myself and that came across as hardness to others. I was a son of thunder but could not see that I lacked grace because I was not receiving it myself.

Oh, I had grace to forgive me, again and again, but shamefully, there were times that I spchose to sin, knowing full well that what I was about to do was evil, and yet, I trusted that because I was saved, I could confess it and it would all be ok. I say that to my shame. I could not lower the standard of walking holy before the Lord, but by not doing so, I was always bound by guilt and self condemnation even of God did not condemn me. Walking in the rest, where ai could cease from my own efforts to be a good Christian? Ha! That was unheard of, before that night eleven years ago, 

So, it is not up to me to judge anything about you. You simply can look at my description of me, and apply it to your own heart. If by chance you do see a silmilarity, and like I was, wa dying of hunger even in my zeal for God, God has a rest for you this very day. nO waiting! LOL. 

I love you brother. 

Gideon

BUT I do have the answer .    ITS JESUS ,   and thus point to HIM .    look at how simple james puts it .    James had the answer .    HE said

SUBMIT TO GOD , RESIST the DEVIL and he will flee.     THEIR is the simple answer .   GOD IS , CHRIST IS ,   if we obey THE SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Pray , ask , seek , knock and the DOOR is opened ,  IF a man lacks ,  lacks anything , wisdom , knowledge , LET HIM ASK OF GOD .

THEIR is your solution .  ALWAYS has been , ALWAYS WILL BE .    Get the bible engraied in your heart .  THOSE men who wrote those letters

WERE mature seasoned men.   WHO FOLLOWED JESUS , most had known him while he even walked the earth .   Paul met him on the road to Damascus later .

BUT those men ...................................THEY KNEW and praise GOD if we simply read them gosples , the bible , the letters from the apostels

HOW we would be refreshed and grow .   THE answer HAS ALWAYS BEEN with those who are HIS .  ITS HIM GIDEON .   we all ready have all WE NEED , IF WE HAVE CHRIST

so now we must preach HIM, HIS PATTERN they are the words that pertain unto godliness , wholesome and refreshing and the SPIRIT gives us what we need .

IF WE HAVE JESUS we have all we need ALREADY  ,  its time to OBEY THE SPIRIT or risk it all.    Get the people ready NOW .   

[Gideon]

10 minutes ago, pg4Him said:

Since you quoted me, I will respond. When I speak of the majority, I’m including those in watered-down megachurches, those taken in by cults, and those who think they’re fine because they grew up in church. They comprise an unfortunate majority of “Christians” these days. 

I never said, nor implied, nor meant to imply that we have no good churches. Butero and I have been here suggesting there are indeed many saints walking in victory in many good churches. 

Gideon won’t give us a straight answer on whether there are victorious saints in the church or not. One minute he will say there are, but when we pin him down on the logical result of that, he spins away to suggest otherwise. That’s what this debate is about. 

There has been no spin. Are there saints walking in all the light they now have.? Amen! And I praise God for them. Are there churches that are truly attempting to do the same and pastors who are leading the flock under them, not only encouraging them, but warning them, correcting them, exhorting them and if needs be rebuking them that their flock will walk in full spiritual health. Amen! 

But.... if we are defining free indeed as Jesus did, which was where a man no longer commits sin, then I would say that the vast majority are not walking there. Do you disagree? Jesus said that if we abide in Him, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Jesus said that we are to love God with ALL of our heart, and love our neighbor in the very same way we love ourselves, amen? So....are we? Does the world see that in us? Do WE see that in our own walks? 

If our shields of faith are promised to auemch all the fiery arrows of the enemy, and if our God has promised to not let us tempted above our ability to resist, what is the reason we fail? We say “Well, no one is perfect. We are only human”. Ahhh, but do you not see, dear sister, that this is exactly what putting on our new nature addresses? Our old nature will take the way of escape at times, and at times stare at it and say ‘No thanks”.  

So here is the question I would pose to you. Do you want to get free of that rebellious old nature that never will fully bow the knee to the Lord in all things, all day , every day? Do you believe it is possible based upon God’s promise to us that “he that abides in Gim sinners not”?

 I await your reply. 

Blesssings, 

Gideon

[Gideon]

1 minute ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

BUT I do have the answer .    ITS JESUS ,   and thus point to HIM .    look at how simple james puts it .    James had the answer .    HE said

SUBMIT TO GOD , RESIST the DEVIL and he will flee.     THEIR is the simple answer .   GOD IS , CHRIST IS ,   if we obey THE SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Pray , ask , seek , knock and the DOOR is opened ,  IF a man lacks ,  lacks anything , wisdom , knowledge , LET HIM ASK OF GOD .

THEIR is your solution .  ALWAYS has been , ALWAYS WILL BE .    Get the bible engraied in your heart .  THOSE men who wrote those letters

WERE mature seasoned men.   WHO FOLLOWED JESUS , most had known him while he even walked the earth .   Paul met him on the road to Damascus later .

BUT those men ...................................THEY KNEW and praise GOD if we simply read them gosples , the bible , the letters from the apostels

HOW we would be refreshed and grow .   THE answer HAS ALWAYS BEEN with those who are HIS .  ITS HIM GIDEON .   we all ready have all WE NEED , IF WE HAVE CHRIST

so now we must preach HIM, HIS PATTERN they are the words that pertain unto godliness , wholesome and refreshing and the SPIRIT gives us what we need .

IF WE HAVE JESUS we have all we need ALREADY  ,  its time to OBEY THE SPIRIT or risk it all.    Get the people ready NOW .   

So let me ask you plainly? Does that work for you as the answer to satan’s attacks  every time? If not, why not? Are you obedient in all things every time? Does it bother you if you do not? And if you do not, what can be done to change that so you do? 

Thanks, Gideon

[frienduff thaylorde]

7 minutes ago, Gideon said:

So let me ask you plainly? Does that work for you as the answer to satan’s attacks  every time? If not, why not? Are you obedient in all things every time? Does it bother you if you do not? And if you do not, what can be done to change that so you do? 

Thanks, Gideon

It works everytime .    IF we do that ,  it works everytime .    Gideon I noticed something .  You will agree with certain things I may say

but later I can see you in another place contradicting it .  Like you don't really believe it , maybe you just say it to make me see YOUR POINT .

this is not an accusation , its what I notice .    I mean look at what your basically saying , In one place you told us even you still err

THEN you come and ask me questions about JAMES pattern as if does this work.    I mean which is it Gideon , DO you never err,  or were you just saying you sometimes still do

just to say it .  its like you contradict yourself .     Your real mission , your hearts desire is to point the church to an end time awakening

BUT WHY .   IF we follow the SPIRIT , and we learn from MEN who in that bible KNEW the WAY ,  Gideon we got all we need NOW N JESUS.

You put slippery slopes out their so as men will hear you on your solution and yet your solution is to keep pointing to this FUTURE EVENT .

This is rather odd.    I gave you the answers , the solution , and instead of agreeing , you then ask me if I am obedient in all things every time

And you yourself have admitted you have erred , still do .    You are stuck hard core on your belief and thus you are not hearing or seeing the plain SOLUTOIN to it all.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Butero said:

This is what I see happening here.  We are being promised sinless perfection in this life, and the standard is raised so high, the thought is nobody is there.  We are promised it is coming.  Wait and see.  This is either leading us to the false one world religion or this is the millennial reign of Christ.  The anti-Christ will seek to unite everyone, and there will be signs and wonders so deceptive, if possible, the elect will be fooled.  Even the early church couldn't meet up to these standards.

Brother , you put it in so much clearer words than I did .