I've changed my mind. I now believe the "earth" is 6k years old

[Still Alive]

10 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

So, are you suggesting that "aioonios" is a participle representing a "SUB-age?"

No. aionios/aionion means "of the age".

If we think of the industrial age, it would be "industrial aion". And a man who lived in the industrial aion could be said to be "industrial aionion", which would mean "of the industrial age"

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Still Alive said:

No. aionios/aionion means "of the age".

If we think of the industrial age, it would be "industrial aion". And a man who lived in the industrial aion could be said to be "industrial aionion", which would mean "of the industrial age"

Shalom, Still Alive.

Okay, then your last post was not right.

You said,

On 5/7/2018 at 8:46 AM, Still Alive said:

Just to be clear, I now see you are dividing it into a different type of age than I am. i.e. I think we're both right.

It appears you are talking about "earth" ages, while I'm talking about "mankind" ages. And to use the english words and Greek words to say the same thing, I see it as this:

English: The Church age is the second ages of the post flood age.

Greek: The church age is second aionios/aionion the post flood aion.

aion = age

aionios = of the age

The things you are calling "ages" are nothing of the sort! I'm talking about BIBLICAL ages!

This is not an example of "your truth, my truth"; TRUTH is ABSOLUTE! It's not subjective or something that is variable and at the whim of the interpreter!

For instance, there's NO SUCH THING as a "church age." First of all, there's no such thing as a "capital C Church universal," as Janet Parshall of Moody Radio likes to say. "Churches" in the Bible were just that - "churches" PLURAL! They were and still are LOCAL CONGREGATIONS! And, as far as the description of the "body" in 1 Corinthians, I'll say it again: It's hard for a finger in Albuquerque to scratch a nose in Timbuktu! We're looking at members of a LOCAL family, not distant cousins in another part of the world.

This time in which we live is NOT about a "church," which is a gerund meaning a "gathering." It's the "Time of Ya`aqov's (Jacob's) Trouble!"

[Still Alive]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

Okay, then your last post was not right.

You said,

The things you are calling "ages" are nothing of the sort! I'm talking about BIBLICAL ages!

This is not an example of "your truth, my truth"; TRUTH is ABSOLUTE! It's not subjective or something that is variable and at the whim of the interpreter!

For instance, there's NO SUCH THING as a "church age." First of all, there's no such thing as a "capital C Church universal," as Janet Parshall of Moody Radio likes to say. "Churches" in the Bible were just that - "churches" PLURAL! They were and still are LOCAL CONGREGATIONS! And, as far as the description of the "body" in 1 Corinthians, I'll say it again: It's hard for a finger in Albuquerque to scratch a nose in Timbuktu! We're looking at members of a LOCAL family, not distant cousins in another part of the world.

This time in which we live is NOT about a "church," which is a gerund meaning a "gathering." It's the "Time of Ya`aqov's (Jacob's) Trouble!"

Church age is a figure of speech. Let me say it this way: The age between the death and resurrection of Christ and the beginning of the Millennium.

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Church age is a figure of speech. Let me say it this way: The age between the death and resurrection of Christ and the beginning of the Millennium.

Shalom, Still Alive.

But, that's not a full age! The current age, according to Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter), began with the end of the Flood and runs to the END of the Millennium when the global Fire begins! That's important to understand because the "church" is NOT separate from the children of Israel!

The separation between the children of Israel and the "church" was important for a time to denounce the idea of Replacement Theology, the idea that the "church" was somehow REPLACING "Israel" in the interpretation of prophecy. That was important from the late 1800s through to the early 21st Century, but it's time now to show that this was not exactly true. While the "church" does NOT REPLACE the children of Israel, it's the children of Israel into whom we who are members of a church are adopted! We become ONE in Yeshua` the Messiah with the children of Israel; however, we should note well that it is the children of Israel who are said to be the "natural branches" of the "Olive Tree." And, we who are Goyim (Gentiles) are grafted into that tree as "contrary to nature." (Romans 11:24) Nevertheless, IN CHRIST or IN THE MESSIAH, we are ONE people! (Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:13-18)

[Still Alive]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

But, that's not a full age! The current age, according to Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter), began with the end of the Flood and runs to the END of the Millennium when the global Fire begins! That's important to understand because the "church" is NOT separate from the children of Israel!

The separation between the children of Israel and the "church" was important for a time to denounce the idea of Replacement Theology, the idea that the "church" was somehow REPLACING "Israel" in the interpretation of prophecy. That was important from the late 1800s through to the early 21st Century, but it's time now to show that this was not exactly true. While the "church" does NOT REPLACE the children of Israel, it's the children of Israel into whom we who are members of a church are adopted! We become ONE in Yeshua` the Messiah with the children of Israel; however, we should note well that it is the children of Israel who are said to be the "natural branches" of the "Olive Tree." And, we who are Goyim (Gentiles) are grafted into that tree as "contrary to nature." (Romans 11:24) Nevertheless, IN CHRIST or IN THE MESSIAH, we are ONE people! (Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:13-18)

I'm using "age" as the subjective term that it is. Your four years of college is an "age" to you. Your child rearing years before becoming an empty nester is an age.

Some would argue that we are, in fact, still in the sixth day.

And time is relative. God is light. If you travel at the speed of light, from your perspective, everything happens at once, from your perspective.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Still Alive said:

I'm using "age" as the subjective term that it is. Your four years of college is an "age" to you. Your child rearing years before becoming an empty nester is an age.

Some would argue that we are, in fact, still in the sixth day.

And time is relative. God is light. If you travel at the speed of light, from your perspective, everything happens at once, from your perspective.

Shalom, Still Alive.

Theoretical physics now? You're quoting from 1 John 1:

1 John 1:1-10 (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John is talking about what he also heard from God for John 1:

John 1:1-13 (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Later, Yeshua` is reported to have said,

John 8:12-20 (KJV)

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. 14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. 19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. 20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

John is also the one who penned the Revelation:

Revelation 21:23-25 (KJV)

 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

So, God is light in the sense that He is IN the light (1 John 1:7). The glory (Greek: doxa = that which makes something "stand out") of God lights up the New Jerusalem and the Lamb is its "lightbulb," so to speak; He's the focal point - the apparent Source - of that light.

It doesn't refer to the speed of light at all, and it is only in the General Theory of Relativity that suggests that spacetime is relative if the speed of light is a constant. However, the experiment that suggests that the speed of light is a constant is the Michelson-Morley experiment that Albert A. Michelson and Edward W. Morley conducted in 1887. Let's just say that there are some ... concerns ... that I have with the experiment and the hypotheses behind it.

I don't believe in General Relativity. I believe in the Maxwell Equations and similar field-effect equations for gravitational forces that scientists of the Institute for Creation Research discovered some years ago. (I first heard of them when I was in high school.) These field-effect equations also produce a similar set of results, such as the Special Theory of Relativity, E = mc², as does Einstein's General Relativity.

In any case, it's best not to mix theory with fact.

[Still Alive]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:00 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Still Alive.

Theoretical physics now? You're quoting from 1 John 1:

1 John 1:1-10 (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

John is talking about what he also heard from God for John 1:

John 1:1-13 (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Later, Yeshua` is reported to have said,

John 8:12-20 (KJV)

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. 14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. 15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. 16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. 17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. 18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. 19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. 20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

John is also the one who penned the Revelation:

Revelation 21:23-25 (KJV)

 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

So, God is light in the sense that He is IN the light (1 John 1:7). The glory (Greek: doxa = that which makes something "stand out") of God lights up the New Jerusalem and the Lamb is its "lightbulb," so to speak; He's the focal point - the apparent Source - of that light.

It doesn't refer to the speed of light at all, and it is only in the General Theory of Relativity that suggests that spacetime is relative if the speed of light is a constant. However, the experiment that suggests that the speed of light is a constant is the Michelson-Morley experiment that Albert A. Michelson and Edward W. Morley conducted in 1887. Let's just say that there are some ... concerns ... that I have with the experiment and the hypotheses behind it.

I don't believe in General Relativity. I believe in the Maxwell Equations and similar field-effect equations for gravitational forces that scientists of the Institute for Creation Research discovered some years ago. (I first heard of them when I was in high school.) These field-effect equations also produce a similar set of results, such as the Special Theory of Relativity, E = mc², as does Einstein's General Relativity.

In any case, it's best not to mix theory with fact.

My point is that we really don't know. There are beliefs I glean from the bible that I stand strongly behind. Others I have a "we'll find out when we get there" attitude about. It saddens me to see sincere and very knowledgeable people argue vehemently against each other on these issues. I used to be one of them.

I invoke:

2 Timothy 2:23 ²³Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.

And Titus 3:9, etc.

[JohnR7]

On 4/25/2018 at 8:41 AM, Still Alive said:

Genesis begins with "in the beginning". Well, the beginning of what?

What is a beginning? We are told that we are star stuff. So our beginning was around 12 billion years ago when the dust or elements were formed in a star. In Genesis 1:2 we read: "Now the earth was formless and empty," we also see these same words in Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light". In Genesis 1:28 we read: "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth". What does this mean to replenish the earth?  

[Still Alive]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:05 PM, JohnR7 said:

What is a beginning? We are told that we are star stuff. So our beginning was around 12 billion years ago when the dust or elements were formed in a star. In Genesis 1:2 we read: "Now the earth was formless and empty," we also see these same words in Jeremiah 4:23 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light". In Genesis 1:28 we read: "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth". What does this mean to replenish the earth?  

Exactly. I've gone as far as to compare the surface of the earth to a canvas that has been painted, the painting covered in white, then a completely new painting applied, then a new coat of white, and a new painting, etc. So when we find dinosaur bones, etc. We're really pealing up our painting and the whitewash under it to reveal the painting underneath, or maybe several layers underneath. And our "painting" began with the "whitewash" of the "waters". 

It's just an analogy to explain what I think could be going on regarding the earth, both before and after this age. That is, how many layers will be added on top of this one? We do know this one will end scorched before the new Jerusalem is laid down on that "whitewash" layer.

It's just a word picture to give a glimpse into what I think is at least possible. Scripture doesn't contradict it and, frankly, may support it at least to one degree. I see it as part of our "through a glass darkly" stuff. Nobody really knows. 

[JohnR7]

On 4/25/2018 at 8:41 AM, Still Alive said:

Genesis begins with "in the beginning". Well, the beginning of what?

We could go on forever talking about the word beginning. The first letter in the first word in the Bible "B" represents a tent or a dwelling or actually a tabernacles. God's desire is to dwell with us. One meaning for the letters in this word is that God gave His Son as a Grain offering to reconcile Heaven and Earth. We know that God declares the end from the beginning. This is why we know that God does what He says He is going to do. When God says: "let there be light" we can be sure that light is going to manifest itself.