Heart2Soul Posted April 27, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/13/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2018 On 4/25/2018 at 7:41 AM, Still Alive said: After a re-read of Genesis and some of Revelation with a new perspective, I now believe that the "earth" is 6,000 years old. But to clarify, there is a reason I put "earth" in quotes. Thing is, Genesis begins with "in the beginning". Well, the beginning of what? And how long before the six days of creation was this "beginning". All stories start at the beginning of the story, but rarely at the birth of the characters in the story. Also, in revelation we are told the earth is destroyed (and there is no sea) and there is a new heaven and a new earth. Well, I always thought it meant the earth was COMPLETELY destroyed, but a better interpretation of the actual scripture is that the surface of the earth is basically scorched to the point that it is a clean slate on which God will build a new age. And that may be what happened before our six days of creation. The bible is silent regarding what happened before the beginning of the story. I use mount Rushmore as an illustration/analogy. If I were to ask you, "how old is Mt Rushmore?", and you knew the history of the creation of the art that adorns it, you might quickly answer based on your understanding that construction of the memorial began in 1927 and ended in 1941. But as we know, Mt. Rushmore is a lot older than that. So, I see the age of the monument as analogous to the age of the results of the "six days of creation" (six thousand years, approximately) and the age of the actual mountain as analogous to the age of this sphere we call the earth (quite a bit older, actually). BTW, I'm not bringing up here the subject of "how long were the six days, really". I see it as a different discussion. Thoughts? What is your understanding of the 3 earth ages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 36 minutes ago, Still Alive said: What does "in the beginning" really mean? The beginning of the story of mankind on this planet? The story of our galaxy? The story of the universe, etc. In context, "in the beginning" means at the beginning of the creation account, the beginning of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted April 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, Yowm said: Otherwise it is the beginning of time, since God dwells in eternity. Since it doesn't say that, that is merely your inference. Let me be clear: I'm not saying I KNOW what it means. Rather, I'm saying it is sparse enough on information to allow multiple perspectives within the context. And the context is this: The bible is about man's origins, God's personality, and man's relationship with God and responsibilities. With that context, "in the beginning" could be interpreted to mean "in the beginning of time" or it could mean "in the beginning of the story of man, created by God, in His image." One can accept either of these and the whole story can work, and the latter actually works better the more we know about the earth, the other bodies in our solar system, and the universe. To an ancient shepherd, it means "in the beginning of time and creation", but to anyone aware of what mankind has discovered about creation, it could also mean "in the beginning of the story of man", which follows previous stories. Who knows? Maybe the seven thunders were about to speak of those previous stories. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted April 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, Heart2Soul said: What is your understanding of the 3 earth ages? Do you mean before the flood, after the flood and after Jesus' death and Resurrection? Do you include the millennium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted April 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 36 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: In context, "in the beginning" means at the beginning of the creation account, the beginning of the universe. I believe that is a possible interpretation. But to add a twist, it pre-dates the six days of creation. Is it possible that Genesis 1:1-2 includes all of time before the six days of creation, and that time could have been billions of years? Kinda like saying, "In the beginning, The Steel was created and put into ingots. It was then formed into sheets. It then sat in a warehouse for a couple of years. Trees were cut down, formed into 8x8's and 2x6's and left in a kiln to dry and then left in the same warehouse. Then Genesis 1:3 is the beginning of actually using that sheet metal and lumber to make a sheet metal building. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, Still Alive said: I believe that is a possible interpretation. But to add a twist, it pre-dates the six days of creation. Is it possible that Genesis 1:1-2 includes all of time before the six days of creation, and that time could have been billions of years? Kinda like saying, "In the beginning, The Steel was created and put into ingots. It was then formed into sheets. It then sat in a warehouse for a couple of years. Trees were cut down, formed into 8x8's and 2x6's and left in a kiln to dry and then left in the same warehouse. Then Genesis 1:3 is the beginning of actually using that sheet metal and lumber to make a sheet metal building. No, tha tis not possible because Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2 are what we refer to as a "vav disjunctive." That means that from the standpoint of Hebrew grammar, 1:1 is an independent thought. It serves as a synopsis for what follows. Gen. 1:2 begins with the vav followed by the noun (haeretz) which means that there was no pre-adamite earth that was previously destroyed with God starting over in v.3. Had the vav been followed by a verb, the word "was" in Hebrew could be translated as "became" which would imply a previous earth that became formless and void. But that is simply not the case. The grammatical structure in Hebrew makes your hypothesis impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heart2Soul Posted April 27, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 166 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/13/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 27, 2018 53 minutes ago, Still Alive said: Do you mean before the flood, after the flood and after Jesus' death and Resurrection? Do you include the millennium? I am not sure...I have read and heard people talking about it...some say the 1st earth age was during the time of the fall of satan.....we are in the 2nd....the creation of man.....and the 3rd is supposedly the new heaven and earth after the thousand year millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted April 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 17 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No, tha tis not possible because Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2 are what we refer to as a "vav disjunctive." That means that from the standpoint of Hebrew grammar, 1:1 is an independent thought. It serves as a synopsis for what follows. Gen. 1:2 begins with the vav followed by the noun (haeretz) which means that there was no pre-adamite earth that was previously destroyed with God starting over in v.3. Had the vav been followed by a verb, the word "was" in Hebrew could be translated as "became" which would imply a previous earth that became formless and void. But that is simply not the case. The grammatical structure in Hebrew makes your hypothesis impossible. Unless the "earth" talked about in verse two is the surface of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Still Alive said: Unless the "earth" talked about in verse two is the surface of the earth. No, it is not the surface. That makes no sense. What v. 2 is saying that God started the creation with the earth and by extension, the universe, in their elemental form. Your theory doesn't work because the Hebrew grammar simply makes it impossible. Verse 1 is simply a summary statement that is expanded on in the creation account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Alive Posted April 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Heart2Soul said: I am not sure...I have read and heard people talking about it...some say the 1st earth age was during the time of the fall of satan.....we are in the 2nd....the creation of man.....and the 3rd is supposedly the new heaven and earth after the thousand year millennium. Here is an interesting take that sees five: https://youtu.be/nvkpwp-gVJI?t=230 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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