Do we have to do good works to be saved ?

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, Riccardo said:

The love of Christ is a completely separate issue, to people sin being forgiven. Was Judas sins forgiven to the point of salvation? does Christ still love him absolutely.

How are some peoples names removed from the book of life? 

Riccardo, Judas died before Pentecost, before the seal of God was placed on believers, Eph 1:13-14. He was also a nonbeliever. The love of Christ is why we are forgiven at the cross. - Heb

[Riccardo]

6 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Riccardo, Judas died before Pentecost, before the seal of God was placed on believers, Eph 1:13-14. He was also a nonbeliever. The love of Christ is why we are forgiven at the cross. - Heb

How are peoples names removed from the book of life, if at one stage they were placed in there, according to the bible.

So your saying only believers after pentecost have the seal of God, & believers before didn't have the seal of God.

That doesn't sound fare, that give satin & his angles plenty of accusations at the judgment to say, "I told you Gods rules are not fare." 

Thanks for you time brother 

Rich

[Patrick Miron]

21 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

[1] Not all Catholics are like you, 

[2] Saying that this is the Catholic understanding of the faith, it includes many borderline forms of Idolatry within the Catholic groups. 

[3] Some other Catholics will never make the statement that without works of Charity you cannot be saved. 

[4] That's too heavy, you know what redemption means by the blood of JESUS CHRIST, he payed the price. 

[5] And there is the redemption that comes with good works of charity. But not to substitute the Atonement of Jesus CHRIST. 

[6]You can atone for your sin against another person, but you cannot atone something you already have by faith in Jesus Christ, whether you understand this or not.

 

 

[1] Not all Catholics are like you, 

With 1.2 BILLION Catholics worldwide that is a safe statement. And I do get the sincerity of your thought.

The Post Vatican II RCC has turned sharply to the “RIGHT.” Liberal Progressives are having their day in THIS court; but then there is the Judgment Court ahead of us. I’m content to let God Judge. A former Pastor of mine asked once in a homily: “WHO DIED AND LEFT YOU IN CHARGE.” Despite the church being packed I felt he was talking directly to ME. Since that time; long ago, I have endeavored to keep that remark ever in my mind. GOD certainly did not leave ME in charge; EXCEPT to share His Truths with as much clarity {evidence} and charity I can muster; then leave it to the Holy Spirit to Judge.

[2] Saying that this is the Catholic understanding of the faith, it includes many borderline forms of Idolatry within the Catholic groups.

My friend; without disagreeing I would need more specific information in order to respond tot his

[3] Some other Catholics will never make the statement that without works of Charity you cannot be saved. 

Sadly true. The lack of sufficient and CORRECT catechesis in the post Vatican II period; worldwide has seemed to have been until recent years; made a “stepchild.” But there remains a remnant of Informed, and fully practicing Roman Catholics; I AM truly Blessed to be counted in that number.

The late Archbishop Fulton Sheen of New York is quoted as teaching: “TRUTH REMAINS THE TRUTH EVEN IF NOONE BELIEFS IT, AND A LIE REMAINS A LIE EVEN IF EVERYONE BELIEVES IT.” And the late Pope Benedict XVI taught: THERE CAN’T BE YOUR TRUTH AND MY TRUTH OR THERE WOULD BE NO TRUTH.”

[4] That's too heavy, you know what redemption means by the blood of JESUS CHRIST, he payed the price. 

My new friend; I’m not sure what you mean by “that’s too heavy?”

One of the foundational philosophical errors of the Reformation period was to teach that both the term; redemption and salvation mean the same thing. THEY DON”T

“Redemption” as I indicated has only a “remote” connection to the term “salvation”.  In its simplest understanding; “redemption” references all of humanity; past, present and to come; while “salvation” refers precisely to individual human Souls and their Life choices.  

[5] And there is the redemption that comes with good works of charity. But not to substitute the Atonement of Jesus CHRIST. 

If I’m understanding you correctly; that salvation IS through Jesus Christ. We agree.

[6] You can atone for your sin against another person, but you cannot atone something you already have by faith in Jesus Christ, whether you understand this or not.

Actually, I don’t fully understand this and would appreciate you explaining it to me further.

[7] JESUS does that is the most important, Jesus Christ the Judge of all knows that[/quote]

While not disagreeing with this; I’m fairly sure we do not have the same identical thoughts and understanding here.

Certainly salvation begins with God’s OFFER of grace which can be accepted or denied. Gen, 1:26-27 teaches us that GOD choose to Create US {humanity alone} in His Own Image. This is fulfilled when God at the very instant of conception{which HE causes}, gifts every human Soul with a mind, intellect and freewill; which He permanently affixes to every-human-Soul, so that by our freewill life choices we can merit our Salvation; which is a life-long; not a one choice matter.

Isaiah 43: verses 7-8 & 21 explain WHY Rational humanity exist:

[7] “And every one that calleth upon my name, I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, and made him. [8] Bring forth the people that are blind, and have eyes: that are deaf, and have ears. ……[21] This people have I formed for myself, they shall shew forth my praise”

Humanity exist to Know, to Love, to Serve, to Obey and to Worship God. Which is WHY our Salvation is; even has to be, a Lifelong process.

Thank you my new friend for your kind and thoughtful discourse.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

[KiwiChristian]

On 5/4/2018 at 11:33 AM, Patrick Miron said:

Ammmmm, I don't think POSTER was addressing Protestants, who have their OWN idea's on what it takes to "be saved."

Are YOU aware friend of the infallible RULE for RIGHT understanding of the Bible?  Permit me to share it with you [caps for emphasis BUT NOT shouting.]

NEVER EVER, CAN, MAY OR DOES

ONE VERSE, PASSAGE OR TEACHING

HAVE THE POWER OR AUTHORITY

TO INVALIDATE, OVERRIDE, OR MAKE VOID

ANOTHER VERSE, PASSAGE OR TEACHING

BECAUSE IF SUCH WERE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST POSSIBILITY IT WOULD RENDER THE ENTIRE BIBLE AS BEING WORTHLESS TO TEACH OR LEARN THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST.

James 2: 13-26

[13]For judgment without mercy to him that hath not done mercy. And mercy exalteth itself above judgment. [14] What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? [15] And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food: [16] And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. [24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? [25]And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way? [26] For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." Friend, as a lifelong Catholic and a trained Apologetic's teacher; BE ASSURED that we Catholics Do understand that we cannot WORK our way into heaven. HOWEVER, we also know that works = CHARITY; and that without Love; without Charity; ANYONE's odds of attaining Heaven are GREATLY diminished.  THAT my friend is the Catholic understanding of "Works." Easter Blessings, Patrick

 

 

 

Thats why i quoted MORE than one verse.

 

Address the verses i quoted if you think you have to work for your salvation.

[Heb 13:8]

5 hours ago, Riccardo said:

How are peoples names removed from the book of life, if at one stage they were placed in there, according to the bible.

BELIEF..  John 3:18, Rom 10:9

Quote

So your saying only believers after pentecost have the seal of God, & believers before didn't have the seal of God.

Yes

Quote

That doesn't sound fare, that give satin & his angles plenty of accusations at the judgment to say, "I told you Gods rules are not fare."

And it gives Satan power to deceive nonbelievers into thinking God isn't just. Gen 3:1, John 8:44, 2 Thess 1:6.

[Sal Robinson]

true friend, but when we know the Love of God, that love compels us to make his love known.

 

So our actions don't gain us his Love, our actions don't gain us his love, our actions are our response to His Love.
 

[Patrick Miron]

19 hours ago, KiwiChristian said:

Thats why i quoted MORE than one verse.

 

Address the verses i quoted if you think you have to work for your salvation.

Friend, as a lifelong Catholic and a trained Apologetic's teacher; BE ASSURED that we Catholics Do understand that we cannot WORK our way into heaven. HOWEVER, we also know that works = CHARITY; and that without Love; without Charity; ANYONE's odds of attaining Heaven are GREATLY diminished.  THAT my friend is the Catholic understanding of "Works."

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

[Heb 13:8]

50 minutes ago, Patrick Miron said:

BE ASSURED that we Catholics Do understand that we cannot WORK our way into heaven.

Will religin get u to heaven or will John 3:3, Rom 10:9, 1 John 5:12 do that. God bles

[KiwiChristian]

2 hours ago, Patrick Miron said:

Friend, as a lifelong Catholic and a trained Apologetic's teacher; BE ASSURED that we Catholics Do understand that we cannot WORK our way into heaven. HOWEVER, we also know that works = CHARITY; and that without Love; without Charity; ANYONE's odds of attaining Heaven are GREATLY diminished.  THAT my friend is the Catholic understanding of "Works."

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

I know that catholics believed they are saved by grace.

 

but in order to get that grace, certain things must be done.

 

 

 

CANON 9:  "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

 

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."

 

Canon 24:  "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

 

Canon 30:  "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

 

 

[Riccardo]

19 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

ELIEF..  John 3:18, Rom 10:9

This doesn't answer my question at all?   How is a persons name that once was entered into the book of life, be removed from the book of life?