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The Great Cloud of Witnesses


Christine

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Dead Christians cannot see us here.  Why would God allow that?  There are no tears in heaven.  Think of the tears they would shed if they could see our daily lives, spiritual battles, sickness, disease, dying without Christ, and more.

My father just died two months ago.  My mother is a hot mess of grief.  Do some of you mean to tell me that my father is watching my mother fall apart from heaven, knowing he can't put his arms around her and comfort her?

The great cloud of witness is the faithful of chapter 11.  We "watch" them by reading about them.  They are not watching us.

Edited by Jayne
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Heb 11:35  Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life.

Heb 11:36  Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. Heb 11:37  They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— Heb 11:38  of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

Heb 11:39  And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, Heb 11:40  since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Heb 12:1  Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, Heb 12:2  looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

Heb 12:3  Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.  Heb 12:4  In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

The point of it all is that we are not alone in enduring persecution and hardship.  The faith of the Old Testament saints should be an inspiration to us for their faith and patient endurance.  They bear witness to us of their faith through the Scriptures.  But they were looking to the Redeemer that God was to provide to complete and perfect their faith.  He would provide their reward.   

So we also need to be looking at Jesus our Redeemer, Who kept His eyes on God's promises as did the saints of old.  He was looking to the heavenly reward as well, and that is how He endured the deriding and persecutions, even to death on the cross.  So that is how we also need to endure the difficulties of our lives.  That is how we are to overcome sin as well.  The whole theme of Hebrews is to look to Jesus.  

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On 8/12/2018 at 3:39 PM, Jayne said:

Dead Christians cannot see us here.  Why would God allow that?  There are no tears in heaven.  Think of the tears they would shed if they could see our daily lives, spiritual battles, sickness, disease, dying without Christ, and more.

My father just died two months ago.  My mother is a hot mess of grief.  Do some of you mean to tell me that my father is watching my mother fall apart from heaven, knowing he can't put his arms around her and comfort her?

The great cloud of witness is the faithful of chapter 11.  We "watch" them by reading about them.  They are not watching us.

No more tears is after Jesus returns (Revelation 19:11-16, Zachariah 14:1-8, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17), after His millenial reign (Revelation 20:4-9), and after the New Jerusalem descends on a New Heaven and Earth: 

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bridebeautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them.They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:1-4). 

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6 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

No more tears is after Jesus returns (Revelation 19:11-16, Zachariah 14:1-8, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17), after His millenial reign (Revelation 20:4-9), and after the New Jerusalem descends on a New Heaven and Earth: 

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bridebeautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them.They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:1-4). 

I stand by what I say.  Those Christians who have died cannot see us at all.  If they are with Christ - what do you think they are crying over?

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3 hours ago, Jayne said:

I stand by what I say.  Those Christians who have died cannot see us at all.  If they are with Christ - what do you think they are crying over?

Because Christ is whipping the tears away then after all the Judgement and Wars. Or describing rather how things will be then as in “there will be no more tears, death, fear and etc.” 

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