LadyKay Posted May 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.93 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2018 I was looking up something in the Bible when I came across Romans 13:3 which reads For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. While I do not know what the state of things were back in Bible times when Paul said this. If rulers and laws at that time were fair and just? I do know that rules and laws in the US have not always been fair and just. I know from personal experience that there have been people who have been living good and upright lives, only to be wrongly accused of something and wrongly punished for it. They now live with this fear of authority and that such a thing could happen again to them. Back in slave times blacks lived in fear of the rulers and of authority for no other reason other then the fact they they were black. Many people though out history of the US have been punished by those in authority by unjust laws that went against a person's race. So how then can it be true that doing right will allow you to live free from fear of authority? If unjust laws and dishonest people are placed in authority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2018 Paul wrote romans circa 57-58 ad. The roman ruler at that time was Nero, probably one of the most psychopathic individuals of rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero There were many terrible rulers of rome and the outlying provinces. From the emperor all the way down to the least government official. Laws were not more fair and just back then. They had slaves then too. Children were used as sex objects and that was legal in ancient rome. Seems terribly unjust to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted May 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,247 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,852 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, LadyKay said: So how then can it be true that doing right will allow you to live free from fear of authority? If unjust laws and dishonest people are placed in authority? We cannot expect a a perfect government in a fallen world. But I think we have one of the better, as compared to most. I have been in several countries abroad, and would not have liked to have dealt with ruling authorities. For sure. When a police car with lights going pulls in behind me, I get that old feeling of Oh Oh. As does most people. We have all heard about those nightmare cases, and some are tragic. But in our country, it really is seldom enough that it is not expected, thus an indicator of the norm. The laws are set up to protect the innocent, as then some guilty goes free. But not always. As government continues to expand, we can expect more bodily force being applied to everybody, with innocent victims being caught up in the process. The fear is a normal reaction to any authority in uniform. But being right with God, who is the only one we should fear, is what is really important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidden In Him Posted May 8, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 449 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 423 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/21/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/16/1964 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, LadyKay said: I was looking up something in the Bible when I came across Romans 13:3 which reads For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. While I do not know what the state of things were back in Bible times when Paul said this. If rulers and laws at that time were fair and just? I do know that rules and laws in the US have not always been fair and just. I know from personal experience that there have been people who have been living good and upright lives, only to be wrongly accused of something and wrongly punished for it. They now live with this fear of authority and that such a thing could happen again to them. Back in slave times blacks lived in fear of the rulers and of authority for no other reason other then the fact they they were black. Many people though out history of the US have been punished by those in authority by unjust laws that went against a person's race. So how then can it be true that doing right will allow you to live free from fear of authority? If unjust laws and dishonest people are placed in authority? The general teaching here, Kay, was to subject yourself humbly under the rule of those in authority (Romans 13:1), and lead what Paul taught elsewhere was a "quiet life," where you were not a nuisance to rulers but did your best to instead be a blessing to the cities and nations you were citizens of. The idea was not that they would be perfect in their judgments, but simply that they were not generally a terror to those who did things like praying for the peace and well-being of their nations (1 Timothy 2:1-4), but would be far more likely to be to those who demonstrated in the streets and threatened to rebel, as the Jews were doing against Rome, which would lead to their eventually being conquered and completely subjugated not many years later. This is essentially the same teaching Jesus was giving when he taught that if a Roman soldier commanded a Jew to walk a mile and carry has equipment by force, a disciple of Jesus should walk with him an additional mile as well, as a way of overcoming evil with good. So the teaching was not necessarily to expect the government to always be good and fair to you, but simply to understand that you would be much more agreeable to them if you were a blessing to their rule rather than a public nuisance and a potential threat to stability. As for your question about walking free of fear completely, I think this is only possible by walking ever closer to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, since He has not given us a spirit of fear, but One of love, power, and a sound mind. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, LadyKay said: I was looking up something in the Bible when I came across Romans 13:3 which reads For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. While I do not know what the state of things were back in Bible times when Paul said this. If rulers and laws at that time were fair and just? I do know that rules and laws in the US have not always been fair and just. I know from personal experience that there have been people who have been living good and upright lives, only to be wrongly accused of something and wrongly punished for it. They now live with this fear of authority and that such a thing could happen again to them. Back in slave times blacks lived in fear of the rulers and of authority for no other reason other then the fact they they were black. Many people though out history of the US have been punished by those in authority by unjust laws that went against a person's race. So how then can it be true that doing right will allow you to live free from fear of authority? If unjust laws and dishonest people are placed in authority? It is a general truth. It is not guarantee against injustice. But generally speaking, if we submit to the ruling authorities where it is reasonable and right for us to do so, we will live in peace and free from fear. That does not preclude the possibility of a government passing bad laws, or committing injustices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted May 9, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,563 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,043 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 9, 2018 12 hours ago, LadyKay said: I was looking up something in the Bible when I came across Romans 13:3 which reads For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. While I do not know what the state of things were back in Bible times when Paul said this. If rulers and laws at that time were fair and just? I do know that rules and laws in the US have not always been fair and just. I know from personal experience that there have been people who have been living good and upright lives, only to be wrongly accused of something and wrongly punished for it. They now live with this fear of authority and that such a thing could happen again to them. Back in slave times blacks lived in fear of the rulers and of authority for no other reason other then the fact they they were black. Many people though out history of the US have been punished by those in authority by unjust laws that went against a person's race. So how then can it be true that doing right will allow you to live free from fear of authority? If unjust laws and dishonest people are placed in authority? Hi, I deleted my thoughts for there is a far better presentation that responds to your question. http://lakesidechapel.com/sermons?book=Romans See December 14, 1986 Submission part 2 5486 Romans 13: 1-5 Steve Kreloff Note: You will have to scroll down as there are 133 sermons on the book of Romans there. You will need find chapter 13:1-5 as described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debp Posted May 9, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 52 Topic Count: 1,017 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 12,296 Content Per Day: 1.79 Reputation: 16,358 Days Won: 92 Joined: 07/19/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 9, 2018 11 hours ago, ayin jade said: Paul wrote romans circa 57-58 ad. The roman ruler at that time was Nero, probably one of the most psychopathic individuals of rome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero There were many terrible rulers of rome and the outlying provinces. From the emperor all the way down to the least government official. Laws were not more fair and just back then. They had slaves then too. Children were used as sex objects and that was legal in ancient rome. Seems terribly unjust to me. Nero would also use Christians as human torches to light his gardens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted May 9, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,563 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,043 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Highlighting a principle that all government is delegated from God: Government, all government, is authority delegated from God. It is recorded that Jesus, who is God, declared in response to the government authority over Him the following: “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above." From John 19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted May 9, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,563 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,043 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon was God's servant! Seventy Years of Captivity 25 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah, in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah (that was the first year of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon), 2 which Jeremiah the prophet spoke to all the people of Judah and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: 3 “For twenty-three years, from the thirteenth year of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, to this day, the word of the Lord has come to me, and I have spoken persistently to you, but you have not listened. 4 You have neither listened nor inclined your ears to hear, although the Lord persistently sent to you all his servants the prophets, 5 saying, ‘Turn now, every one of you, from his evil way and evil deeds, and dwell upon the land that the Lord has given to you and your fathers from of old and forever. 6 Do not go after other gods to serve and worship them, or provoke me to anger with the work of your hands. Then I will do you no harm.’ 7 Yet you have not listened to me, declares the Lord, that you might provoke me to anger with the work of your hands to your own harm. 8 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: Because you have not obeyed my words, 9 behold, I will send for all the tribes of the north, declares the Lord, and for Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants, and against all these surrounding nations. I will devote them to destruction, and make them a horror, a hissing, and an everlasting desolation. 10 Moreover, I will banish from them the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the grinding of the millstones and the light of the lamp. 11 This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. 12 Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity, declares the Lord, making the land an everlasting waste. 13 I will bring upon that land all the words that I have uttered against it, everything written in this book, which Jeremiah prophesied against all the nations. 14 For many nations and great kings shall make slaves even of them, and I will recompense them according to their deeds and the work of their hands.” The Cup of the Lord's Wrath 15 Thus the Lord, the God of Israel, said to me: “Take from my hand this cup of the wine of wrath, and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. 16 They shall drink and stagger and be crazed because of the sword that I am sending among them.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted May 9, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,563 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,043 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 9, 2018 Ecclesiastes 8 English Standard Version (ESV) [Keep the King's Command] 8 Who is like the wise? And who knows the interpretation of a thing? A man's wisdom makes his face shine, and the hardness of his face is changed. 2 I say: Keep the king's command, because of God's oath to him. 3 Be not hasty to go from his presence. Do not take your stand in an evil cause, for he does whatever he pleases.4 For the word of the king is supreme, and who may say to him, “What are you doing?”5 Whoever keeps a command will know no evil thing, and the wise heart will know the proper time and the just way. 6 For there is a time and a way for everything, although man's trouble lies heavy on him. 7 For he does not know what is to be, for who can tell him how it will be? 8 No man has power to retain the spirit, or power over the day of death. There is no discharge from war, nor will wickedness deliver those who are given to it. 9 All this I observed while applying my heart to all that is done under the sun, when man had power over man to his hurt. [Those Who Fear God Will Do Well] 10 Then I saw the wicked buried. They used to go in and out of the holy place and were praised in the city where they had done such things. This also is vanity. 11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil. 12 Though a sinner does evil a hundred times and prolongs his life, yet I know that it will be well with those who fear God, because they fear before him. 13 But it will not be well with the wicked, neither will he prolong his days like a shadow, because he does not fear before God. [Man Cannot Know God's Ways] 14 There is a vanity that takes place on earth, that there are righteous people to whom it happens according to the deeds of the wicked, and there are wicked people to whom it happens according to the deeds of the righteous. I said that this also is vanity. 15 And I commend joy, for man has nothing better under the sun but to eat and drink and be joyful, for this will go with him in his toil through the days of his life that God has given him under the sun. 16 When I applied my heart to know wisdom, and to see the business that is done on earth, how neither day nor night do one's eyes see sleep, 17 then I saw all the work of God, that man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. However much man may toil in seeking, he will not find it out. Even though a wise man claims to know, he cannot find it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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