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Micah collins

What is your opinion on young earth creationism

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Ken ham and other proponents of young earth creationism are part of the reason i originally stopped being a christian. however i know that not all Christians are young earth creationists so im just asking.

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At this point personally I consider myself an old-Earth creationist (though I completely reject so-called "macro evolution"). I was basically raise as a YE-Creationist.

Care to share your own thoughts though? What is it about YE-Creationism/ists that turned you away so much?

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I grew up with ye creationism. I also watched a lot of answers in genesis. this lasted until about 3 years ago when i started doing research outside of answers in genesis and within a day i had become an agnostic atheist (the same happened to my political beliefs i went from being quite conservative to being vary liberal). ever since then ive been an atheist accept for a few times when ive tried to re indoctrinate myself but now i simply know to much for it to take effect. Also i didn't even know that old earth creationism existed until last year. since you dont believe in theistic evolution i assume you're either a progressive creationist or you believe gap theory.

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It is an interesting topic to be sure. It is interesting to me also that you say that young earth creationism is part of the reason you gave up being a Christian. The reason that is the case, is that it was lack of credible, objective, and believable evidence for Darwinian evolution, that forced me to abandon that world view. Of course, losing my faith in certain scientists and scientific models, did not lead me to become a Christian, it just shook me out of my certainty as an Atheist - and I then considered myself as an Agnostic. I was stuck there for quite a while, but that is another story.

My thoughts on Y.E. vs. O.E. are a bit complicated. I do not believe that the Earth was created in October of 4004 B.C. as James Ussher calculated from the geneologies. I think there are flaws in his thinking there. However, I made a calculator based on the sort of math used to compute the growth of money with compound interest and applied it to human population growth and find that Ussher's number look believable, much more so that the numbers generally assigned by secular scientists. At the same time though, I would point out, that this assumes a population starting from 4 couples around the assumed time of Noah and family. I don't claim the calculator is accurate, not proof of anything. I do think that is reasonable though as an indicator that the human race is likely not 200,000 year old as is often suggested now, and certainly not over 3 million years old, as "Lucy" is said to be.

My current belief (which is just a guess based on the science of Willard Libby, is that our planet has been enjoying sunshine for under 30,000 years. I guess that makes me a young earther - relatively. However, my notions of that, come only from my understanding of science, and my beliefs that much of current science, is misled by assumptions and agendas, just like politics and other things people are passionate about are. I came to my understanding from science first, only accepting the Bible later, and accepting it, as the once religious compilation that seems to line up with sciences, history, archaeology etc, as I understand them, but, I am an expert on none of those fields.

The thing is though, regarding the age of the Earth, creationism etc., I do not see in the Bible that those things are requirements for being a Christian. I do have a philosophical issue though regarding the significance of these things. In my brand of Christianity, the Bible is the ultimate authority, that is where I place my faith, as opposed to the days when I used to place my faith in what I read in books on science. I still place a lot of faith in science. I however, find that there is room for disagreement, on some thing that are commonly believed in the scientific community.

Personally, I not convinced of anthropogenic climate change, nor am I convinced that if it is occurring, that it is necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, I am convinced that the Earth is a sphere, not flat and covered with a dome. I think science - knowledge - can be had with careful observations and well thought out conclusions. I also think that scientists, are just people, and all people can make errors -scientists can and do, philosophers can and do, theologians can and do, even Christians can and do. No group is immune to errors, and unfortunately, no group is immune to being fooled nor even to being deceivers.

That leaves us all vulnerable and anyone who thinks otherwise, I think is prideful and self-deceived. For me then, that means I have to make my best effort, and go with what that leads to. For me, at this present time and for the last 40 years or so, that has meant going with my best understanding of the Bible. I understand, that if I understand it correctly, that my eternity depends upon it.

If it does then although believing in a young Earth does not determine my eternal destiny. my relationship to Jesus of Nazareth and faith in His bodily resurrection are critical. This ties into the Genesis record, in a way that make me think it is important how I view the Bible. If, the Bible can be understood, as some do, that there is room to interpret the book of Genesis in an other than literal way, then I am very uncomfortable. If I am going to side with secularists, who say there was not global flood, there was not an original couple in a garden who committed the original sin etc., then why can I not take licenses with the account of Jesus death on the cross and subsequent bodily resurrection from the dead. Rationally, if one account is disputable, perhaps the other is too. 

That is a huge risk to take. If the majority of scientists are right about these matters, then no big deal, I will die an ignorant fool, and just end up decomposing. If I am right about what the Bible claims, and the Bible is right, then I will end up in eternity with my Lord, and they will end up separated from anything good. Now, there, the saver bet is going with the Bible. However, I do not believe the Bible because it is the safer bet, I believe it because I just believe it. I also believe, that I believe it because God gave me the faith to believe it.

Quote

 

3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

12Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 15We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If in Christ we have hopeb in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.  1 Cor 15

 

My more complete thought on the significance of the age of the earth, are here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/46-on-the-significance-of-the-age-of-the-earth/

I guess that is all I have to add to the topic!

 

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13 hours ago, Micah collins said:

Ken ham and other proponents of young earth creationism are part of the reason i originally stopped being a christian. however i know that not all Christians are young earth creationists so im just asking.

The last thing we need is to allow atheistic scientists to hi-jack the interpretation of Scripture.   I am a young-earth creationist because that is what fits the description of creation in the Bible.  In fact, Atheists understand that the Bible is incompatible with Evolution.   They understand it better than most Christians, I have discovered.  Science is not infallible and we should not be putting our trust in them to help us understand the Bible.

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18 hours ago, Micah collins said:

I grew up with ye creationism. I also watched a lot of answers in genesis. this lasted until about 3 years ago when i started doing research outside of answers in genesis and within a day i had become an agnostic atheist (the same happened to my political beliefs i went from being quite conservative to being vary liberal). ever since then ive been an atheist accept for a few times when ive tried to re indoctrinate myself but now i simply know to much for it to take effect. Also i didn't even know that old earth creationism existed until last year. since you dont believe in theistic evolution i assume you're either a progressive creationist or you believe gap theory.

I suppose you could classify me as a "progressive creationist." Basically, check out some lectures from Hugh Ross on Youtube (especially ones focusing strongly on Genesis 1), he's been quite influential on me. Gerald Schroeder is another you might want to check out.

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On 5/12/2018 at 1:47 AM, Micah collins said:

Ken ham and other proponents of young earth creationism are part of the reason i originally stopped being a christian. however i know

Explain?

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On ‎12‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 9:08 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

My current belief (which is just a guess based on the science of Willard Libby, is that our planet has been enjoying sunshine for under 30,000 years.

 

That is even after the Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals were sunbathing in Europe. Actually they were living more in the cold.

As for older human species we can date back the mitochondrial Eve and the Y chromosome Adam to 200,000 years.

I hate to bring up argon dating to a Creationist, but here goes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omo_remains

 

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Hi Steve,

 

On 15.5.2018 at 12:45 PM, steve w said:

I hate to bring up argon dating to a Creationist, but here goes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omo_remains

In my opinion, scientists concerned with dating objects do a good job. I think that we have honest scientists who just do their best to use the best of their capacities to present the facts to us.

 

When it comes to anything that's created in a miraculous way by God, I just think that scientists don't have the method as yet to determine the correct answer to how old the thing is.

When Adam was created, he was created adult. This is what I believe Bible teaches, and I believe the Bible is true.

 

However, I assume today's scientists would have assigned a wrong age to him: an adult age when he was just 1 day old in fact.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying scientists are doing a bad job. No no. Just to the contrary. Of course I couldn't do better.

But when it comes to miracles, no scientist can explain how he or she wants to determine the correct answers.

Well, many secular scientists might not be interested in them, in the first place. Or they say it's outside the scope of science.

 

But I believe in miracles and Bible trumps science in my opinion.

 

Best Regards,

Thomas

 

 

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On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 2:47 AM, Micah collins said:

Ken ham and other proponents of young earth creationism are part of the reason i originally stopped being a christian. however i know that not all Christians are young earth creationists so im just asking.

The bible is rather silent on the subject, though people read a lot between the lines in Genesis 1. Nobody alive today was actually there and even the writer of Genesis was not there. It contains the heavily veiled explanation God gave him. God didn't want to give away the store.

BTW, if you read the original Hebrew, modern takes on the age of the world can become even more confusing.

If you find yourself in a heated debate on this subject, you're doing it wrong. ;)

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