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Retrobyter

How Heaven is like Naturally.

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Shabbat shalom, everyone.

Sometimes, strange comparisons come to mind, and this is one of the strangest. HOWEVER, it is also one that I feel not only explains my position on "Heaven," but also shows why it became necessary to have such a position.

I grew up on wonderful movies like "White Christmas" with Bing Crosby, "It's a Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart, and "The Naughty Nineties" with Bud Abbott and Lou Costello. Here's an excerpt from the "Who's On First" routine that Abbott and Costello did for the movie:

Quote

 

Abbott: That's all you have to do.

Costello: Is to throw the ball to first base.

Abbott: Yes!

Costello: Now who's got it?

Abbott: Naturally.

PAUSE

Costello: Look, if I throw the ball to first base, somebody's gotta get it. Now who has it?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: Who?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: Naturally?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: So I pick up the ball and I throw it to Naturally.

Abbott: No you don't, you throw the ball to Who.

Costello: Naturally.

Abbott: That's different.

Costello: That's what I said.

Abbott: You're not saying it...

Costello: I throw the ball to Naturally.

Abbott: You throw it to Who.

Costello: Naturally.

Abbott: That's it.

Costello: That's what I said!

Abbott: You ask me.

Costello: I throw the ball to who?

Abbott: Naturally.

Costello: Now you ask me.

Abbott: You throw the ball to Who?

Costello: Naturally.

Abbott: That's it.

Costello: Same as you! Same as YOU! ...

 

(This was found at Baseball-Almanac.com.) It's a GREAT routine, and Abbott and Costello were probably the ONLY team that could have delivered it so hilariously!

Now, here's the comparison:

Who : Naturally :: Kingdom : Heaven.

This is read, "'Who' is to 'Naturally' as 'Kingdom' is to 'Heaven.'"

"Going to Heaven" is as bad to say as "picking up the ball and throwing it to Naturally!"

Let me explain in terms of English grammar: "Who" is the guy's nickname; therefore, Abbott used it as a personal noun (and not a "personal PROnoun," either)! However, Costello is hearing it as an interrogative pronoun. "Naturally" is used by Abbott as an adverb, but Costello reasons that THIS is the personal noun!

"Heaven" is NOT a "place" for which we are destined. We are destined for the Kingdom of God ruled by the King, God. It is called the "Kingdom of God" which means it is "God's Kingdom." God's Representative (His "Messiah"; His "Mashiyach"; His "Anointed"; His "Christos"; His "Christ") will be its PHYSICAL King, who is ONE with His Father, God, and who will be VISIBLE to the world!

John 1:18 (KJV)

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The Messiah's Kingdom is described this way by the angel Gavri'el (Gabriel) to Miryam (Mary, Yeshua`s mother):

Luke 1:30-33 (KJV)

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: Ieesous = Aramaic: Yeeshuwa`). 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

He was both the son of his ancestor David the King and the "Son of the Highest" because of these passages of Scripture:

2 Samuel 7:1-17 (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when the king sat in his house, and the LORD had given him rest round about from all his enemies; 2 That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains. 3 And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee.

4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 5 Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6 Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7 In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, Why build ye not me an house of cedar?

8 Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9 And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
 17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

This scene was repeated in 1 Chronicles 17:

1 Chronicles 17:1-15 (KJV)

1 Now it came to pass, as David sat in his house, that David said to Nathan the prophet, Lo, I dwell in an house of cedars, but the ark of the covenant of the LORD remaineth under curtains. 2 Then Nathan said unto David, Do all that is in thine heart; for God is with thee.

3 And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying, 4 Go and tell David my servant, Thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in: 5 For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from one tabernacle to another. 6 Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars? 

7 Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over my people Israel: 8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth. 9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning, 10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build thee an house. 11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I WILL BE HIS FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore. 15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

These passages are NOT talking about Shlomoh (Solomon); they are talking about David's SEED! Furthermore, David acknowledged that YHWH GOD was King, not just himself! He recognized GOD as HIS King!

Psalm 5:1-2 (KJV)

1 {To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David.}

Give ear to my words, O LORD (YHWH), consider my meditation.
2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

So, the KINGDOM OF GOD will be ruled by the Messiah Yeshua`, and the KINGDOM OF GOD is our destiny! "Going THROUGH THE HEAVENS (THE SKIES) to get to the Messiah's Kingdom and be there forever" is just a truth that unfortunately has been misinterpreted to "GOING TO HEAVEN to be there forever!"

Again, here is how Strong's Exhaustive Concordance lists "ouranos" in its Greek Dictionary:

3772 οὐρανόςοὐρανοῦ. Perhaps from the same as oros (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity) -- air, heaven(-ly), sky.

Now, I know that it is also called "THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN," but one must understand that the Greek uses the words "HEE BASILEIA TOON OURANOON" (using "EE" for an eta and "OO" for an omega), the "-oon" (omega-nu) ending being the plural ending for both the noun "ouranos" and its article "ho." 

In Koine Greek, there are 8 cases for a noun: the nominative (which acts as the subject in a sentence), the genitive (translated with an "of"), the ablative (translated with a "from"), the locative (translated with an "in" or an "at), the instrumental (translated with a "with" or a "by"), the dative (translated with a "to" or a "for"), the accusative (which acts as the direct object in a sentence), and the vocative (as though one is talking TO the noun, acting as an appositive).

However, in CLASSICAL Greek (Attic Greek), there are only FIVE cases: the nominative, the genitive, the dative, the accusative, and the vocative. In Classical Greek, the genitive case can be used for BOTH the traditional genitive and origins of the ablative case! Thus, one can also translate Classical genitive case as either "of" or "from" in English. Indeed, even in the Koine Greek, the genitive and ablative cases are SPELLED THE SAME WAY! (That's also true about the locative, instrumental, and dative cases; they also are all spelled the same as each other.) My point is that the words, "hee basileia toon ouranoon," could also be translated as "the kingdom FROM the skies (the plural)," speaking not about "ownership" but about "ORIGIN!" One may have ASSUMED a genitive case when it should have been considered to be an ablative case!

Yeshua` SHALL come again, not just to "judge the world," although He will certainly do that. He is to be its KING! As I've said before, one of the roles of the King of Israel was to be its "Supreme Court Justice!" Lesser judges could handle the easier matters of judgment, but when necessary, they could escalate the matter to the King who would then be the FINAL SAY in the matter. He is to rule and reign, both over Israel and its tributaries until He has conquered ALL the nations of the earth! Some shall submit willingly; some shall submit reluctantly to save their economies; many will resist. He shall "rule them with a rod of iron," and He shall "subdue all His enemies" until the last enemy, death itself, is finally subdued, as well. This will take a THOUSAND YEARS to accomplish (Psalm 2:1-12; 1 Corinthians 15:20-28; 2 Peter 3:7-12; Revelation 20:1-7). All this must be accomplished BEFORE the Great White Throne Judgment after the final Resurrection, after which Yeshua` shall turn the Kingdom - the WORLD EMPIRE at that time - over to His Father.

It's not until AFTER all this, that God allows His New Jerusalem to come down out of the sky to the New Earth with its New Sky to be what many have called "Heaven on earth." It will be THEN that God "wipes away all tears" and "creates all things new."

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    • By Michael37
      Musing about heaven ~
      My first day in heaven never ends, it never turns to night.
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    • By Behold
      With all the talk about OSAS and Legalism and Repenting and all this STUFF.........
      I thought it would be a good idea to show you an idea of how to think about salvation so that its really made to be understood ....as so very simple.
      Here we go..
      Adam had the righteousness of God.   He was made this way....(let us make man in our image....same as us, regarding spirituality)........Adam had God's Spirit in him.   He was "righteous"......exactly like God.
      When he disobeyed, ate the apple...... He lost his Righteousness...and he spiritually died.    ..He was no longer ONE with God, and had became "fallen"....or you could think of it as..,,,,, disconnected from God's Spirit and LIFE.
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      What had to happen, so that we could be reestablished as the same RIGHTEOUS, as the original Adam?
      Well, Jesus, the 2nd Adam, had to come and die, and give us HIS Righteousness, so that we are reestablished like Adam was spiritually..... before Adam the 1st lost his righteousness.
      See it?
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    • By Behold
      Lets define "legalism" as defined by Paul, as Webster is not using the NT as context.
      "Legalism" is Galatians 1:8  ""there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let them be accursed. """"
      Notice that Legalism, taught or preached, "perverts" the Gospel.  It subverts the Blood Atonement.  It actually attacks the Cross, by denying Jesus full credit do for saving you and keeping you saved.  It offends God, and that is why he curses the person and the message.
      Legalism, is the teaching that "faith + works" is what saves you and keeps you saved.   And this "gospel" is a perversion of the truth.  Its actually a denial of the Lord's words..spoken from the Cross = "it is Finished"....meaning The Blood Atonement.....Salvation.
      Let me explain it more clearly....
      This verse is referring to a person (Legalist) who is preaching a gospel that is a blend of Jesus, the Cross, and their Works. (commandment keeping, enduring to the end, holding onto their faith.....etc, etc, etc.)
      Legalism, a Legalist, will give lip service, = a false presentation of the Gospel.
      And the way they always do it, is by adding 10 commandment keeping, and lifestyle, as a PART of the Blood Atonement.
      In other words, the Legalist, who is usually not actually born again, but is very apt at speaking "christianese", and uses bible verses, and goes to different Christian fourms to annoy and create chaos......will always defend the LAW and 10 Commandments as "necessary" to be saved, instead of giving FULL CREDIT DUE, to the One who died on the Cross, who HIMSELF is Grace and Salvation.

      Here is how you spot a lying legalist on a Christian forum.
      Its so easy.
      THis is how they "sound".

      "Yes, i know that Christ is the savior......BUT".

      "yes, i know that Jesus saves......BUT"

      See that "but"? That is the sign of the Legalist.
      They can never EVER agree that Jesus and the Blood of Christ is all that God accepts to save you and keep you saved.
      They can't agree with this, because they do not believe it.

      A Legalist, will always, add WORKS, 10 commandments", TO THE CROSS, and then they will all add LIFESTYLE, as well.., as this is how they are "working out their own salvation".
      The gospel of the legalist, is "faith + works".
      The Gospel of God is "The Cross".

      See their problem?
      Its a BIG One.

      A legalist sounds like this when they teach or preach....>."""now we know that Jesus saves, but, you ALSO have to ..........1. 2. ....3. 4.. 40.....do all this""

      See all that?
      THAT IS Galatians 1:8
      THat is "cursed of GOD" theology and PERSON, because it is adding to the Cross, self righteous works, and this denies The Lord His full credit due, for Salvation.
      This offends God, who is Jesus on the Cross, and that is why there is a literal CURSE on anyone who teaches or preaches that ... "The Cross + Works, commandments, lifestyle" is the Gospel.....is Salvation.

      How do YOU discover if you have fallen from Grace, and you are become a legalist. ??
      Very simple.
      You just answer this simple question.
      Q.) Do you believe that Jesus Christ keeps you saved?

      I didnt ask you if He saved you.
      I asked you if you believe that He KEEPS You saved?

      A Legalist is not being honest if they say yes, because a legalist believes that enduring to the end, keeping your faith, living a holy life, keeping the law and the 10 commandments, is what is keeping THEM saved., so that is why they preach this cursed of God gospel to others.
      So, be careful reader, as a legalist has deceived themselves, so, that is what they will also offer you.
       
       
       
      B
    • By Behold
      When Calvin wasn't trying to get more people burned at the Stake, he also created theologically backwards ideas like : YOU  have no choice about your Salvation....God chose you, and that settles that.
      So, lets look at this one point of his 5 point "salvation theory" system.... and then compare it to the Grace of GOD, which is OSAS.
      Now,  to believe this, you have to pretend that Free Will, is not in fact, real.
      And here is the thing....
      God is JUST....which means, regarding heaven and hell, and people going there....He would not be JUST, if He denied you the freewill to end up in >either place<.
      Heaven is a choice. Hell is a choice.. A person, who is breathing, while still an unbeliever.. makes the choice to trust Christ or reject Christ, (Hebrews Ch 4 and 10, Unsaved Hebrews) and GOD accepts their choice now and in eternity, and they get to experience the fruit of their choice, just as soon as they DIE.
      A Person who ends up in Hell, chose to go there. A person who ends up in Heaven, chose to go there.
      Jesus is THE WAY.... John 14:6 And if you receive Him as the WAY, you go to heaven, and if you reject Him as the ONLY Way, you go to Hell, and then later, the Lake of Fire.
      And this is not a myth.
      Its a FACT and this is a situation that every person reading this and everyone in the entire world, living-breathing... or yet to be born, is going to have to face, unless they die as a baby or a very very young child.

      Think of it like this. Lets say, as some heretics teach, that God decides you are one of the unlucky ones who is born to go to hell.
      That God chose you, to go to hell.
      How can that be JUST ? How could that be right? How could it possibly be that...."God is Love", if He is choosing some for the lake fo fire, just because they were born, and they have no part in the decision.
      That's the theology of judging God as evil, and its theological insanity to do it, and to teach it... but it is taught and it is believed.
      There are actually people on this Forum, and on all Christian Forums, that have been taught that some people are born to go to hell, and that God chooses them to go.
      I know the scriptures they twist to try to prove this Satanic theology, and i won't be quoting them here.
      No worries.
      So that theology is demonic, but, what is worse is that this doctrine is absolutely creating the Idea of God, as way beyond the evil of Hitler...... and in fact, its painting God as black as the Devil's heart, but worse, Because, its people pretending they are CHRISTIANS who are vilifying God this way.


      So, a JUST God, would never behave like this, and in fact....... Father God is a completely Just God.
      GOD, the Father of Jesus, is so Just, that He allowed the killing of a Sinless Son, to allow for the recreation of the SINNER, into the SINLESS. This is how salvation actually works.
      God takes the sinlessness of Christ and exchanges it for our Sin, and we end up as righteous as Christ, and Jesus ends up as "became sin" on the Cross and DIES FOR OUR SIN.
      Reader, the Cross is a SWAP.....Its where God's righteous Son gives us His Righteousness, and He takes all our sin....our entire lifetime of it, and dies for it ALL.
      = Salvation.
      = OSAS.

      And being saved, works exactly the same...regarding God's Justice.. God does not choose some for Heaven, as that is actually the same as choosing some for hell. Its the same thing.
      That is not how "freewill", "justification by faith", and "Christ in you the hope of Glory". works.
      God is not going to tell you....in John 3:16 that he'll accept "whosoever", and in another verse. "ALL that believe on Jesus, shall be saved", or "as MANY as will believe"...... God is not going to offer Salvation to any and all, worldwide and universe deep, then choose some for Hell.
      Yet, there are preachers that preach this message, and their Church is full of people that shout "AMEN" when he speaks about God choosing some for the Lake of Fire.
      And some of these people, are on this Forum.

      Salvation is a Free gift. We dont earn it, and God does not force it on anyone, nor does He take it away after we are born again.
      A born again person, is IN CHRIST....and Christ "in you = hope of HEAVEN, (glory)"".
      So, when you are dead, you will end up wherever Christ is, and that wont be Hell or the Lake of Fire.
      The Born again are in Him and He is IN Us, """SEALED unto the day of redemption""", and so, we have to end up where Jesus ends up, as we are IN HIM......IN HIM.....IN HIM.
      We go where He goes, where He IS, after we die, or are Raptured.
      Final Answer, is...Salvation is not a temporary situation. This is why The one who SAVES, and KEEPS YOU SAVED, said from the Cross that .. Philippians 1:6. "IT (Salvation) is FINISHED".
      We dont finish it., we dont keep ourselves saved.
      Christ said "it is FINISHED"""< and when we are saved, born again, our salvation is FINISHED.
      Philippians 1:6
      OSAS.

      So, once again, remember that OSAS, only means that Salvation is God saving you, through Faith, when you believe on Christ, and then you become born again, and this can never cease to be your ETERNAL reality, because God Himself has saved you with the Blood of Jesus, and this HOLY Blood's power to redeem, redeems you for all eternity. "IT IS FINISHED". = SALVATION.
      The Blood that was shed on the Cross is GOD's BLOOD, and that is why it has the Power to keep you saved, and not just start your salvation.
      That is OSAS.
      ITs that simple.

      And no one who simply believes and accepts by FAITH the finished work of JESUS ON the Cross, who would explain it as OSAS...... has ever taught or will ever teach, that because we are always kept saved by God's grace, (BLOOD OF JESUS).. then we can then sin all we like and enjoy it. And you hear this on Forums like this one....These liars lying about OSAS, using the term "license to sin"....
      Its a lie, (reader).... Reader.....don't believe it.

      You've noticed that in the last 10 days, i've just basically written a BOOK about Legalism and Legalist here on this Forum, within many Threads, and never have I or would i ever say or teach that ... because the Blood of Jesus saved you and keeps you saved...that you can go out and live in sin and enjoy it.
      Not quite.
      Paul said if you do this, and you won't stop, you will die. Romans 8:13
      So that is the end result of living in sin, after you are saved.
      It'll finally cost you your earthly life, but before it does, it'll destroy your life, first.
      You'll lose everything except your Salvation, if you live in sin, after you are born again.
      You'll lose your witness, your money, your family, your friends, finally your health, and then you'll die.
      THATS the result of "living in sin" as a born again believer in Yeshua.

      But no... it won't cost you your Salvation, as you don't control that part.
      That part is controlled by the one who " FINISHED IT"< on the Cross, and has created a believer as born again.
      Born again, this status of a "New creation in Christ", a born again SPIRIT< living inside the corrupt body, is an eternal situation.
      Hyper-Religious - Self Righteous- Legalists...... flip out when they are told this, because they believe in themselves to stay saved by works...., and so, that is why they can't allow God the Savior to keep them saved if they are..... "bad".
      But that is exactly what He has already done. He has already taken your LIFETIME OF BAD, and sent Jesus to the Cross to pay for it all so that YOU don't have to pay for it, in ETERNITY.
      = Salvation.
      = Grace.
      = OSAS

      What actually happens to a Legalist, who is saved .... who USE TO BE a Legalist, but has seen the Light of the Cross and now trusts in Christ alone to keep them saved......This person is freed from the impossible burden of trying to keep themselves saved, and they find that this frees them to actually live a more holy life then they were trying to live as a legalist.
      As now they are committing to their "be holy as God is holy" lifestyle that God EXPECTS, = = EMPOWERED by God's GRACE, instead of by their FLESH.

      Flesh fails, Grace doesn't.

      A Legalist, who has come to see the Light of Grace in the Face of Jesus, = the finished blood atonement, finds that living for the Lord becomes empowered by Grace, which allows you more self control then they ever had when they were trying to work to stay saved, and were always failing and confessing, failing and confessing............ always feeling condemned, always feeling guilty.........>.
      Grace, OSAS,..... once you come to realize this truth that God who saved you, will KEEP YOU SAVED, HIMSELF.  Philippians 1:6. .....then (Grace understood) will empower you to live the Holy Life.
      That's the effect of the Grace of God, as its the Power of Christ's Blood having this empowering effect on you, simply because you understand it properly.
      Understand....."revelation" "seeing the Light" is not just comprehension of theological data, but it is in fact, LIFE POWER from GOD which empowers you to be what God wants you to be.
      "God's Grace"
      OSAS.
    • By Behold
      Gospel : Paul teaching = "preaching of the Cross". "we preach Christ Crucified"..."Jesus sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel".."faith comes by hearing this".....

      So, all that, if believed by an unbeliever resolves an eternal issue......
      What is the issue?
      What is God's purpose for coming to earth to die as Jesus The Christ on a Cross?
      What is He doing?...What is He alone solving, that all our 10 commandment keeping and holy lifestyle can never solve, which is WHY HE had to solve it? ?
      And right here is what is so often misunderstood, or not taught correctly, and this is why so many people who mean well, and love Jesus, or would like to love him, do not understand <>WHAT IS<> the actual reason that God came here to die.

      So what is that reason?
      The reason, is that keeping the law, the 10 commandments, and doing good works, confessing sin, and living as holy as we can, could not make us acceptable to God..
      And here is the "catch 22".... It also can't AFTER you are saved.
      And right here is where "Legalism vs Grace" becomes the touchstone of constant fighting on forums, and everywhere else that it can show up where believers WILL clash.
      (Apparently this clash became such a long standing fight and fury on this forum that members here are barred from posting- fighting about it.)

      It is a fact and statement of the CROSS that the law and the 10 Commandments can't make you righteous, they can only show you that you are unrighteous., as that is the actual purpose of the Law, as well as outlining what God expects regarding our basic moral conduct & behavior, once we are born again.
      So, how can it be that half the body of Christ is trying to keep all this, all these works, and they believe that this is "keeping them saved".
      Whereas the other half of the body of Christ is trusting in Jesus to keep them saved.
      So, do you see the line in the sand?
      Its this " What is keeping you SAVED"....that is the minefield of theological confusion.
      THATS the fight.
      Legalism vs Grace.
      Its happening on every forum like this one, and its the reason for 5000 denominations that don't agree, and 300 bibles that don't agree.
      This issue started with Paul and his preaching of "justification by Faith" >alone, and he wrote the letter to the Galatians that talks about it, and explains it.
      2000 yrs later, this issue of Legalism vs Grace is still a fist fight between those who say they are "Christians".

      Isn't it interesting to realize that if the 10 commandments, or lawkeeping, or living holy, could save you or keep you saved, if that were the truth, then Jesus could have stayed in Heaven and saved Himself some PAIN.....
      But ita not the case.
      Now im not certain what you have been taught, but i teach that you "present your body a living sacrifice" and you to "live holy as God is holy", not to save yourself or keep yourself saved, but because this is what you should do, and what God expects, .. because you ARE saved.
      The Legalist would argue that .."no, you do it to stay saved", and if you don't then you're not.
      I wonder, reader, what you believe.

      So, leaving all that now, lets just look at the problem that God had to come here and solve for us, as to look at this, is to understand the reason for Salvation which is to understand Salvation.
      Our problem we had, before we were saved, is only one thing, one issue only. And God Himself had to solve it, because we can't.
      We are born, and we get older, and we don't have any righteousness.
      None.
      And so, God can't accept us, because we are UNRIGHTEOUS. 
      This is "lost", "unsaved"....hellbound = we don't have any RIGHTEOUSNESS< as all of ours, are "filthy rags".
      So, in steps SALVATION... Down from Heaven God as The Christ arrives... The Cross has been raised.... As God bleeding out on the "tree" has come down from Heaven to give us HIS righteousness so that He can accept us, based on THAT.......and for no other reason will He accept you, or me.
      God, literally became a man, and died on a Cross, to GIVE US "the righteousness of Christ". (God's very own righteousness).
      And that is what salvation actually is....Its God coming to earth to give us His righteousness so that HE can accept us, as by giving us His very righteousness, this makes us acceptable to God.
      Welcome to Salvation.
      Salvation is only.... "what makes you acceptable to God"....and that is one thing, its GOD'S Righteousness, becoming ours.
      A born again person, has literally BECOME "the righteousness of Christ", and Christ is GOD.

      To say that God's Grace is amazing, is really the least of what it is...
      How can you describe the wonder of God, dying to give you His righteousness in place of your unrighteousness, as a free Gift?
      Is there a word that can even claim to honor this spiritual transaction enough?
      Just one.
      LOVE. Agape` Love. God is LOVE  
       
      blessings,
       
       
      <B><


         
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       













       













































       
       
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