This is why I am here, how about you?

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

"I have surely built You a lofty house, A place for Your dwelling forever." 1 Kings 8:13

Was God able to dwell in King Solomon's temple forever? 

"I descended to the roots of the mountains. The earth with its bars was around me forever, But You have brought up my life from the pit, O LORD my God.  Johnah 2:6

Did forever mean "forever" in the verse above? 

 

In the verse below the covenant is described as everlasting.

"Every sabbath day he shall set it in order before the LORD continually; it is an everlasting covenant for the sons of Israel.  Leviticus 28:8

But we find that it has been replaced with a "New Covenant".

For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory... and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 2 Corinthians 3:11,13

When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.  Hebrews 8:12

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the covenant had conditions and the Israelites did not keep their end of the deal which made it null and void. This is what the Bible says, not me. The people of Israel were unable to abide by the terms of the Old Covenant and this is why they needed the Messiah. 

You are confusing the Abrahamic Covenant which is unconditional  vs. the Mosaic Covenant which is conditional.   The Abrahamic Covenant is eternal and pertains to ownership of the Land. It is the covenant of promise.   The Mosaic Covenant was about possession, not ownership.  Those are two different things.  I can possess a car, but I don't own it until I pay off the loan.  The Mosaic Covenant sets for the conditions by which promise can be enjoyed.   

Israel was exiled from the land for their violations of the Mosaic Covenant, but God never took the Land away from them, nor did their actions negate the promises made to Abraham.   God's promise to Abraham is not revocable because that covenant is not rooted in conditional requirements.   It is the work of God and God alone maintains that covenant independent of what Israel does. It is not a covenant of works. 

The Mosaic Covenant only applies to Israel's ability to possess the Land, not their ownership.   As long as Israel was obedient, they could possess the land and enjoy the blessings that come with it.   But their disobedience resulted in their exile from it.   But God never rescinded their ownership of it. 

 

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Israel is a nation of people, it has never been an actual place or a physical country until 1948. 

It was a country and a land in the Bible.  It had borders and a government, an economy, a standing army, an economy, a currency and a language.  It had all of the earmarks of what we would expect.  "Israel" refers to a people and a nation and a Land, like it or not.

Yes, theses verses all mention the land where the Israelites occupied. These verses do not call the land itself or the place Israel. 

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Yes, theses verses all mention the land where the Israelites occupied. These verses do not call the land itself or the place Israel. 

Those verses directly refer to "The Land of Israel."   So I will just take God at His word and reject your Muslim theology.  It's only the Muslim enemies of Israel that deny that their was ever a nation or land of Israel.  I love Jesus, so I will reject your claims.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Let's say you are right. Has the nation of Israel you are referring to paid off the loan?

That's not the point of the analogy.  I am simply comparing the difference between ownership and possession.   People who hate Israel typically confuse the concepts and look at God's warnings to Israel about being dispossessed from the land as the land being permanently taken from them and their ownership revoked.

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Has the current state of Israel met the conditions as set by God?

Is the current state of Israel obedient?  

 

No, but God promised to restore them to the Land in a state of unbelief and disobedience: "

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it: And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.(Eze 36:16-28)
 

So, God is restoring them, not because they have met all of the requirements, but is restoring them to the Land because He is preserving the honor of His Name.  God make promises that He cannot revoke.   God is faithful to Israel even when Israel is unfaithful.   That is His nature.   Anti-Semites try to set up an artificial standard whereby Israel has to meet certain conditions to be restored.  But God is faithful to Israel because God's Name is at stake.   If God rejects biblical Israel is unfaithful to fulfill His promises to them,  we have no reason to believe that God can and would rescind His promises to us. 

 

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Most Christians worldwide do not believe that Israel refers to the land. In fact, less than 20 percent of Christians who were actually born, raised, and living in the current state of Israel believe that God gave the "land of Israel" to the Jewish people. You are following a theology that is less than 200 years old and is leading to the oppression of our neighbors.   

I don't really care what most Christians believe.   The Bible is replete with examples where the majority was wrong.   Not all "Christians" are born again.  Most Christians are "Christians"  culturally and due to family lineage, not because they are born again.   In fact the largest groups of Christians worldwide have no theology of a personal salvation experience, of accepting Jesus as their personal Savior.  They are "Christians" in name and in heritage, but are not genuinely born again. 

So, I am not going to base what I believe on what a bunch of unregenerate, hell-bound sinners and heretics believe.   I will stand with what the Bible actually says and reject your  reprobate, sinful, heretical "theology."

[jamesdyson]

On 5/21/2018 at 6:35 PM, Yowm said:

No Palestine either lol.

The map I produced made no reference to a land call "Israel" and your response agreed. And instead of producing and ancient map of "Israel" to refute my claim you sidetracked by referencing Palestine. I made no claim or mention of Palestine but you did. So here is Palestina; before the Zion invasion and after the land thefts---. 

[jamesdyson]

21 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

First: the land was also named Israel after the person.

Make as many false claims as you like; I could care less. I don't believe in folklore; I believe in real facts & you and your others have failed to provide any; nada; zip

[jamesdyson]

21 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Second: if the Israelites aren't warring people, then why do you claim they are murdering Palestinians?

Historically the Israelite people were peaceful Shepard's. Then they moved to Egypt where Moses carries out the "first" murder. It was down hill from there and now modern day Israeli's have resorted to "terrorism" (they were the first to use this practice) & the outright murder of children to further their unjust cause. This is what they must ask God for forgiveness for. If not, in my opinion they are doomed.

[jamesdyson]

18 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Israel is a nation of people, it has never been an actual place or a physical country until 1948.

The truth will set you free

[jamesdyson]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

 I thank God that I was born in a country like the United States and I didn't have to suffer as the Palestinians have been doing for decades. 

Thank you Badjao33 for your post.

The Lord blesses your truthfulness as do I

[jamesdyson]

Ezekiel

25 And you, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

26 Thus says the Lord GOD; Remove the turban, and take off the crown: this shall not remain the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.

27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he comes whose right it is; and I will give it to him.

31 And I will pour out my indignation upon you, I will blow against you in the fire of my wrath, and deliver you into the hand of brutal men, skilful to destroy.

32 You shall be for fuel to the fire; your blood shall be in the midst of the land; you shall be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

They are doomed unless they repent & ask the Lord for forgivess

I give the Israeli's a 2% chance of doing so

Edited May 23, 2018 by jamesdyson

[jamesdyson]

I provide the following just because this needs to be known

FIRST ACTS OF TERRORISM, COINING THE PHRASE

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

 July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem,.,.,killing or injuring more than 200 persons. 

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses.  Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.  

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

December ll, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa ; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children.

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.

Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, has confirmed that the Israeli art students were, in fact, part of a major Israeli intelligence operation and that they were conducting surveillance of the activities of the 9-11 hijackers. They also worked with the Israeli Urban Moving System employees in New Jersey who were seen in at least two Jersey City locations -- Liberty State Park and The Doric apartment building -- celebrating the impact of the first plane into the World Trade Center.

The Israelis at Liberty State Park were dressed in Arab-style clothing when they were witnessed celebrating the first attack. The FBI later confiscated a videotape they filmed of the first attack.

http://tinyurl.com/8ss8r7r

Google Irgun, Haganah and Stern gangs and you will get 144,000 hits

 BTW: The Haganah gang later became the Israeli Defense Force (IDF)  

Repent & you shall be forgiven

Edited May 23, 2018 by jamesdyson

[Guest shiloh357]

18 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

I was using the words "forever/everlasting" in the proper context in my post. The Hebrew word "olam" is what is translated to English in each of those verses for those terms. More examples can be found at the link. 

olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5769.htm

No, what you are doing is mixing contexts.  You are taking the way a word is used in one part of Scripture and misapplying it other places.  Olam has nuances that your sloppy approach to the Bible doesn't take into account.