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Hebrews 6:1-3


Christine

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Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, 
let us go on unto perfection; 
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, 

.. and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, 

.. and of laying on of hands, 
.... and of resurrection of the dead, 
...... and of eternal judgment.
........ And this will we do, 
if God permit.

(Heb 6:1-3) 

Hello there,

These verses mark a turning point in my Christian experience.  I remember listening to a speaker talking about the the need to 'go on' unto maturity.  I really wanted to go on, it was an urgent desire.  Yet I was stilled by the words, 'if God permit'.  I realized that I would go on only 'if God permit', or when He knew that I was ready to do so. When I was strong enough 'in my inner man' to make the journey into what would be a 'faith' position, where Christ would be all and in all. Into the unsearchable riches of Christ.

'That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, 
may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; 
that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, 
and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, 
according to the working of His mighty power,
Which He wrought in Christ, 
when He raised Him from the dead, 
and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, 
and every name that is named, 
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet, 
and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.’

(Eph 1:17-23)

 ‘For this cause 
I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, 
to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith

that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints 
what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, 
that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Now unto Him that is able to do 
exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, 
according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus 
throughout all ages, world without end. 
Amen.’

(Eph 3:14-21)  

Have you any thoughts to share? 

In Christ Jesus

Chris

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32 minutes ago, Christine said:

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, 
let us go on unto perfection; 
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, 

.. and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, 

.. and of laying on of hands, 
.... and of resurrection of the dead, 
...... and of eternal judgment.
........ And this will we do, 
if God permit.

(Heb 6:1-3) 

Hello there,

These verses mark a turning point in my Christian experience.  I remember listening to a speaker talking about the the need to 'go on' unto maturity.  I really wanted to go on, it was an urgent desire.  Yet I was stilled by the words, 'if God permit'.  I realized that I would go on only 'if God permit', or when He knew that I was ready to do so. When I was strong enough 'in my inner man' to make the journey into what would be a 'faith' position, where Christ would be all and in all. Into the unsearchable riches of Christ.

'That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, 
may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; 
that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, 
and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, 
according to the working of His mighty power,
Which He wrought in Christ, 
when He raised Him from the dead, 
and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, 
and every name that is named, 
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet, 
and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.’

(Eph 1:17-23)

 ‘For this cause 
I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, 
to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith

that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints 
what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, 
that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Now unto Him that is able to do 
exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, 
according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus 
throughout all ages, world without end. 
Amen.’

(Eph 3:14-21)  

Have you any thoughts to share? 

In Christ Jesus

Chris

To me ""if God permits"" is not a statement that he will permit .. But that it will only happen if He permits it to happen..

His will shall be done.. which may not be the same as our will..

James 4: KJV

13 "Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: {14} Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. {15} For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that."

 

Edited by Adstar
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9 minutes ago, Adstar said:

To me ""if God permits"" is not a statement that he will permit .. But that it will only happen if He permits it to happen..

His will shall be done..

I agree @Adstar,

The reason being given in the verses that follow:-

'... For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, 
and have tasted of the heavenly gift, 
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, 
and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, 
to renew them again unto repentance; 
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, 
and put him to an open shame.’

(Heb 6:4-6 ) 

* This having particular application to the Hebrew believers of that day. Their spiritual welfare was God's concern.

* This is where the application to myself in those early verses (see OP) stopped.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Edited by Christine
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5 hours ago, Christine said:

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, 
let us go on unto perfection; 
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, 

.. and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, 

.. and of laying on of hands, 
.... and of resurrection of the dead, 
...... and of eternal judgment.
........ And this will we do, 
if God permit.

(Heb 6:1-3) 

Hello there,

These verses mark a turning point in my Christian experience.  I remember listening to a speaker talking about the the need to 'go on' unto maturity.  I really wanted to go on, it was an urgent desire.  Yet I was stilled by the words, 'if God permit'.  I realized that I would go on only 'if God permit', or when He knew that I was ready to do so. When I was strong enough 'in my inner man' to make the journey into what would be a 'faith' position, where Christ would be all and in all. Into the unsearchable riches of Christ.

'That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, 
may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; 
that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, 
and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, 
according to the working of His mighty power,
Which He wrought in Christ, 
when He raised Him from the dead, 
and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, 
and every name that is named, 
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet, 
and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.’

(Eph 1:17-23)

 ‘For this cause 
I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
That He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, 
to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man;
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith

that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
May be able to comprehend with all saints 
what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, 
that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Now unto Him that is able to do 
exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, 
according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus 
throughout all ages, world without end. 
Amen.’

(Eph 3:14-21)  

Have you any thoughts to share? 

In Christ Jesus

Chris

“And this we will do if God permits.”

Could it be, this was Paul,  being a doer of the Word, where it says;

James 4:15 (NASB)
Instead, [you ought] to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."

Meaning that since  we are not guaranteed tomorrow,  we should always say;

if the Lord wills this or that, we shall do. 

Could it be, he was doing what the Word says?

Much love in Christ, Not me

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11 hours ago, Yowm said:

I'm only thinking 'if God permit' is like saying 'God willing' and so I have always taken it to mean 'God is willing' (always) that we go on to maturity and not something we need to wait on for His permission. Is this what you were meaning?

Yes, by all means God desires us to mature .   The Holy spirit will unction us to keep feasting on truth and mature .    

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11 hours ago, Yowm said:

I'm only thinking 'if God permit' is like saying 'God willing' and so I have always taken it to mean 'God is willing' (always) that we go on to maturity and not something we need to wait on for His permission. Is this what you were meaning?

And we can do Nothing without Him.    soley shows we need GOD at all times .     The branches cannot bear fruit lest they abide in Him .   For without ME ye can do nothing .

GOD is the only hope we have .   You sing it yowm .     And throw those hands up in the air and leap up high and dance like david did .   We cant do a thing BUT FAIL , unless

we Have HIM.    Sing it people ,   that is right ,   on that note all know what time it is ,   LORD praising Time .

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20 hours ago, Yowm said:

I'm only thinking 'if God permit' is like saying 'God willing' and so I have always taken it to mean 'God is willing' (always) that we go on to maturity and not something we need to wait on for His permission. Is this what you were meaning?

 

15 hours ago, Not me said:

“And this we will do if God permits.”

Could it be, this was Paul,  being a doer of the Word, where it says;

James 4:15 (NASB)
Instead, [you ought] to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."

Meaning that since  we are not guaranteed tomorrow,  we should always say;

if the Lord wills this or that, we shall do. 

Could it be, he was doing what the Word says?

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

9 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Yes, by all means God desires us to mature .   The Holy spirit will unction us to keep feasting on truth and mature .    

 

9 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And we can do Nothing without Him.    soley shows we need GOD at all times .     The branches cannot bear fruit lest they abide in Him .   For without ME ye can do nothing .

GOD is the only hope we have .   You sing it yowm .     And throw those hands up in the air and leap up high and dance like david did .   We cant do a thing BUT FAIL , unless

we Have HIM.    Sing it people ,   that is right ,   on that note all know what time it is ,   LORD praising Time .

@Yowm, 
@Not me, 
@frienduff thaylorde,

Hello there,

Thank you for responding to my post.  

You are all singing from the same song sheet I feel, so I hope you will not mind my answering you all in one post.  [Sorry Yowm for not responding to you earlier, but I missed your entry somehow until now].

'Not me', quoted James 4:15, 'if God wills': which is in line with all of your thinking regarding the words of Hebrews 6:3,'If God permit'. 

* In the OP, my application of Hebrews 6:1-3 to myself, was of a personal nature, but within the context in which it comes, there is a far greater significance to it, and one that I hope my personal application will not distract from.

* God's will is that all should go on to maturity, for remaining a babe is not good (1 Cor.3:1-3), I agree.  Yet, the words, 'if God wills', and 'if God permits' I believe are quite different.  God being willing does not prevent someone acting contrary to His will, but God not permitting makes forward movement impossible I feel.

* Do you understand what I am saying?

* The awesome nature of the verses which follow, are sufficient reason for God to prevent forward movement, should the one deciding to make that advance be insufficiently equipped in their inner man to make the move.

* Consider what happened in the case of Esau as an illustration (Heb. 12:16-17), and also Numbers 14:28-45 (Hebrews 3&4), and Luke 9:62. Remembering that those in Numbers 14, were a pardoned people (Numbers 14:19,20), yet it was not possible to renew again unto repentance that people, pardoned though they were.

* They will be resurrected to enter into the promises made to their fathers in that yet future day, yes: but were not permitted to enter into the promised land in their lifetime, but died in the wilderness.

* The context is regarding Hebrew believers, who were wavering and dangerously close to falling back into Judaism. 

In Christ Jesus

Chris

Edited by Christine
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3 hours ago, Christine said:

 

 

 

@Yowm, 
@Not me, 
@frienduff thaylorde,

Hello there,

Thank you for responding to my post.  

You are all singing from the same song sheet I feel, so I hope you will not mind my answering you all in one post.  [Sorry Yowm for not responding to you earlier, but I missed your entry somehow until now].

'Not me', quoted James 4:15, 'if God wills': which is in line with all of your thinking regarding the words of Hebrews 6:3,'If God permit'. 

* In the OP, my application of Hebrews 6:1-3 to myself, was of a personal nature, but within the context in which it comes, there is a far greater significance to it, and one that I hope my personal application will not distract from.

* God's will is that all should go on to maturity, for remaining a babe is not good (1 Cor.3:1-3), I agree.  Yet, the words, 'if God wills', and 'if God permits' I believe are quite different.  God being willing does not prevent someone acting contrary to His will, but God not permitting makes forward movement impossible I feel.

* Do you understand what I am saying?

* The awesome nature of the verses which follow, are sufficient reason for God to prevent forward movement, should the one deciding to make that advance be insufficiently equipped in their inner man to make the move.

* Consider what happened in the case of Esau as an illustration (Heb. 12:16-17), and also Numbers 14:28-45 (Hebrews 3&4), and Luke 9:62. Remembering that those in Numbers 14, were a pardoned people (Numbers 14:19,20), yet it was not possible to renew again unto repentance that people, pardoned though they were.

* They will be resurrected to enter into the promises made to their fathers in that yet future day, yes: but were not permitted to enter into the promised land in their lifetime, but died in the wilderness.

* The context is regarding Hebrew believers, who were wavering and dangerously close to falling back into Judaism. 

In Christ Jesus

Chris

The awesome nature of the verses which follow, are sufficient reason for God to prevent forward movement, should the one deciding to make that advance be insufficiently equipped in their inner man to make the move

IF one is desiring to move forward in Christ , that desire can only come FROM GOD , the true desire , the desire can only come from THE SPIRIT and the SPIRIT

We are all insufficient on our own . But our sufficiency is of Christ .   The will of GOD is that we grow.    ONLY GOD can permit this , is simply also saying that without Him we can do nothing .

ITs soley by HIS GRACE that we move forward .   IF GOD halts movment forward in growth,  TRUTH is like Israel in the desert one erred , and must be corrected asap.

For GOD don't just give the desire and not the ability .   He gives us both the desire and the ability in Christ .   IF HE gives us the desire , He gives us the ability .

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19 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

The awesome nature of the verses which follow, are sufficient reason for God to prevent forward movement, should the one deciding to make that advance be insufficiently equipped in their inner man to make the move

IF one is desiring to move forward in Christ , that desire can only come FROM GOD , the true desire , the desire can only come from THE SPIRIT and the SPIRIT

We are all insufficient on our own . But our sufficiency is of Christ .   The will of GOD is that we grow.    ONLY GOD can permit this , is simply also saying that without Him we can do nothing .

ITs soley by HIS GRACE that we move forward .   IF GOD halts movment forward in growth,  TRUTH is like Israel in the desert one erred , and must be corrected asap.

For GOD don't just give the desire and not the ability .   He gives us both the desire and the ability in Christ .   IF HE gives us the desire , He gives us the ability .

Hello @frienduff thaylorde,

I agree, both the desiring and equipping is of God.

However, I was dealing with the context in relation to the Hebrew believers to which the letter was addressed in Hebrews 6:1-3, and not believers in general.

Yet, also, in Ephesians three, the prayer requests that the believer be strengthened with might in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in the heart by faith, only then, being rooted and grounded in love, would they comprehend --- (3:18), would they know --- (3:19).  

That knowledge, that comprehension, required  that the believer be especially strengthened to receive it.  

‘Now unto Him that is able 
to do exceeding abundantly 
above all that we ask or think, 
according to the power that worketh in us,
Unto Him be glory in the church 
by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, 
world without end. 
Amen.’

(Eph 3:20)  

Praise God!

Love and grace
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Edited by Christine
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On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 4:04 AM, Christine said:

 

 

 

@Yowm, 
@Not me, 
@frienduff thaylorde,

Hello there,

Thank you for responding to my post.  

You are all singing from the same song sheet I feel, so I hope you will not mind my answering you all in one post.  [Sorry Yowm for not responding to you earlier, but I missed your entry somehow until now].

'Not me', quoted James 4:15, 'if God wills': which is in line with all of your thinking regarding the words of Hebrews 6:3,'If God permit'. 

* In the OP, my application of Hebrews 6:1-3 to myself, was of a personal nature, but within the context in which it comes, there is a far greater significance to it, and one that I hope my personal application will not distract from.

* God's will is that all should go on to maturity, for remaining a babe is not good (1 Cor.3:1-3), I agree.  Yet, the words, 'if God wills', and 'if God permits' I believe are quite different.  God being willing does not prevent someone acting contrary to His will, but God not permitting makes forward movement impossible I feel.

* Do you understand what I am saying?

* The awesome nature of the verses which follow, are sufficient reason for God to prevent forward movement, should the one deciding to make that advance be insufficiently equipped in their inner man to make the move.

* Consider what happened in the case of Esau as an illustration (Heb. 12:16-17), and also Numbers 14:28-45 (Hebrews 3&4), and Luke 9:62. Remembering that those in Numbers 14, were a pardoned people (Numbers 14:19,20), yet it was not possible to renew again unto repentance that people, pardoned though they were.

* They will be resurrected to enter into the promises made to their fathers in that yet future day, yes: but were not permitted to enter into the promised land in their lifetime, but died in the wilderness.

* The context is regarding Hebrew believers, who were wavering and dangerously close to falling back into Judaism. 

In Christ Jesus

Chris

The context is regarding Hebrew believers, who were wavering and dangerously close to falling back into Judaism.

So according to this if a Hebrew falls back into Judaism ,and wont come back , sounds like they are damned for sure .

on that note ,   IF a jew can fall back into his former Judaism ,   Why do so many teach that a gentile cannot fall back to his wordly mindset .

Let us ponder that one .   Just meat for the soul .    Cause gentiles are not BETTER than JEWS , and JEWS are not better than gentiles . IF it a jew can fall away SO can a gentile.

Course in many places it says this clearly .   SO let us not be highminded but fear ,  continue IN HIS GOODNESS otherwise we shall be cut off .

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