History of the Sinner's Prayer

[George]

Now the passage you refer to ... in John 15, it's connected to the fruit of a believer.  You cannot produce fruit unless it abides in HIM!

As Matthew also states, 

Matthew 7:16-20  You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?   Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.   A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, nor can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.  Therefore by their fruits you shall know them. 

But you're not saved because of YOUR FRUIT ... the results of your salvation ... will produce fruit.  Fruit does not produce salvation ... fruit is the RESULT of true salvation.

God bless,

George

[George]

1 minute ago, Cletus said:

its interesting how you come to this conclusion when you embold the words speaking to christians " Therefore, my brothers, stand fast and hold the teachings which you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter."

this alone is evidence that a true believer with real saving faith can "depart"

you have proven, with your own words one can fall away. 

 If you believe so ... I think I've answered it sufficiently.  We can agree to disagree ...  

If you continue on ...

2 Thes. 3:2  And pray that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for all do not have the faith. 
2Th 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you and guard you from the evil. 
2Th 3:4  And we have confidence in the Lord regarding you, that you both do and will do the things which we command you. 
2Th 3:5  And may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patience of Christ. 

The Lord is faithful ... and will establish those who are truly His! 

God bless,

George

[George]

5 minutes ago, Cletus said:

ok.  you touched up on the fruit... but what about the scriptures that i quoted?  speaking of abiding.  that is what i am interested in. 

If you abide in Him ...

Joh 8:31  So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 
Joh 8:32  and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 

When someone is truly saved ... they will "abide" as a RESULT of salvation -- not to "maintain" salvation. 

As the Apostle John says later on,

1Jn 2:24  Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 
1Jn 2:25  And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life. 

The question remains ... Are you truly saved?  This is the real question. 

God bless,

George

[George]

5 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Joh 15:6  If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

As John discussed who is truly his ... and says in 1 John about abiding in Him ... just a few verses prior John says,

1 John 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

So these were those who truly were not born again. 

God bless,

George

[enoob57]

6 minutes ago, George said:

 If you believe so ... I think I've answered it sufficiently.  We can agree to disagree ...  

If you continue on ...

2 Thes. 3:2  And pray that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for all do not have the faith. 
2Th 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you and guard you from the evil. 
2Th 3:4  And we have confidence in the Lord regarding you, that you both do and will do the things which we command you. 
2Th 3:5  And may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patience of Christ. 

The Lord is faithful ... and will establish those who are truly His! 

God bless,

George

One thing I have noticed with those who oppose this... they seem to have inability to bind precept upon precept to further the thinking of Biblical truth... such as salvation is totally and completely upon God to perform 

John 6:35

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
KJV

John 6:38-39

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
KJV

John 6:51

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
KJV

John 10:9

9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
KJV

John 11:25

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
KJV

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
KJV

In every one of these instances Jesus is sole priority of salvation and period to further dependence on anything else... when one begins a work based responsibility they annul this reality...

[enoob57]

14 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Joh 15:6  If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

very simple self reliance is not abiding... it is Christ alone as Christ reliance

[enoob57]

1 minute ago, Cletus said:

Christ reliance IS abiding... not a work... but still something that ya do... i.e.  not walk away, abandon the faith (saving faith being the true topic here)

up and to the time one realizes that what I am and the place where I am is not being kept is blind... when one turns to Jesus with nothing to receive everything it is full reliance upon Him and nothing of this world or self is to remain a viable thing (any further)… we become aliens to all and there is no exclusion to any of this

2 Cor 5:17

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
KJV

Those who are by self reliance are merely mimicking the do to get that is prevalent here and always has been!

[George]

21 minutes ago, Cletus said:

then why would scripture say this:

Therefore, my brothers, stand fast and hold the teachings which you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter."

 

why would there be instruction not to go the wrong way?  (if its not possible)  and also... this is not "maintaining salvation" 

if you go and look up the words in the greek for stand fast, and hold in this passage... it paints a different picture than what you are saying the meaning behind all this is. 

The idea of standing firm is a re-occuring theme of the New Testament and a means of encouragement to the saints.

Php 4:1  Therefore, my brothers, whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, stand firm thus in the Lord, my beloved.

1Co 16:13  Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. 
1Co 16:14  Let all that you do be done in love. 

1Co 15:58  Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

It's the idea of "occupying" till I come ... is what Paul is reaffirming and encouraging the saints. 

God bless,

George

[George]

@Cletus The issue remains that you believe a TRUE believer and Un-Save himself ... or become Un-Birthed from the Kingdom ... whereas the true issue is -- Are you truly saved?   This remains the root of the question before us.   

The Holy Spirit is the ONE who ABIDES in TRUE BELIEVERS ... and through the Spirit we ABIDE in Him.

Joh 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 
Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth [same word as ABIDE in Greek -- Meno] with you, and shall be in you. 

It's by HIS SPIRIT ... that we abide ... the SPIRIT that allows us to ABIDE in HIM only OCCURS through salvation.

This is the same teaching over and over again ... it's by His Spirit that we abide.

It's not too difficult to understand.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

[enoob57]

6 minutes ago, Cletus said:

so i guess those in the church who become luke warm dont get spewed then?  vomited out?  rejected? 

the letter in revelation to a church says they will be IF they do not repent. 

 

in an earlier post you made you commented on what a certain group cant seem to get their mind wrapped around, that you find.  what i find is a certain group ignoring Jesus' words.  making it up as they go.  not heeding.  i have pointed this our in several of my posts in this thread alone.  seems to be a growing trend these days for whats "smooth and blessings"  as they desired of the prophets in the OT.  truely, there is nothing new under the sun.  what has been done will be done again.  and remember, The book does warn of a departure from the truth... giving heed to what?  ooowee man.  ooowee. 

After salvation the born again have the ability to work toward reward... rewards that will be a individual reality of measure to give back to God 'unto His Glory' Judgment seat of Christ... all that you read that in your mind revert back to salvation is really the loss of glory you could have presented the Lord with! 

1 Cor 3:11-15

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
KJV
As George has adequately said many time that which is born of God cannot be unborn for they are no longer of this world they are possession of God clear cut simple

1 John 2:19

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
KJV

this is a clear cut reality given to us by a Spirit filled man to write everlasting Words of God in which you are in dispute!