History of the Sinner's Prayer

[George]

3 minutes ago, Cletus said:

you cant depart from a place you are not at.  you cant fall from something you have not gone up. 

If someone is in a cult ... they would declare themselves a "Christian" ... but in reality ... they are part of a "apostate" group that departed from the true faith at some point.  This is exactly what Paul is referring.  This is exactly what John was talking about as well in discussing Gnosticism. 

Were they ever truly saved?

[George]

Read the entire passage and stop quoting a single verse ...

2Pe 2:1  But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 
2Pe 2:2  And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 
2Pe 2:3  And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. 
2Pe 2:4  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 
2Pe 2:5  if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 
2Pe 2:6  if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 
2Pe 2:7  and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked 
2Pe 2:8  (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); 
2Pe 2:9  then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 
2Pe 2:10  and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority. Bold and willful, they do not tremble as they blaspheme the glorious ones, 
2Pe 2:11  whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a blasphemous judgment against them before the Lord. 
2Pe 2:12  But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed, blaspheming about matters of which they are ignorant, will also be destroyed in their destruction, 
2Pe 2:13  suffering wrong as the wage for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you. 
2Pe 2:14  They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 
2Pe 2:15  Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, 
2Pe 2:16  but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness. 
2Pe 2:17  These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. 
2Pe 2:18  For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 
2Pe 2:19  They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 
2Pe 2:20  For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 
2Pe 2:21  For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 

Read the ENTIRE PASSAGE!

[George]

2 minutes ago, Cletus said:

precept upon precept, line upon line, little bit by little bit.  the one verse says what it says.  the entire passage does not change what it actually says...  which is you can be overcome as a believer by these false teachers heresy.  its a warning, not an encouragement.  a warning because thats what a good Father does... do not touch that... it is hot, you will burn yourself. 

But the issue is the SAME issue you brought up ... ALL the passages I referenced ... all spoke of FALSE doctrine and FALSE teachers ... and does not show in any way that these people were TRULY SAVED to begin with.  This is the point of this discussion.  And the real question should be ... Do you really know you're saved?   and if so, how do you know?

[George]

Just now, Cletus said:

when you only look for encouragement in the bible that is no different from what these motivational speakers do, who take the good stuff Jesus said in the bible and throw out "the bad" 

This can be a problem for sure ... but it doesn't change the discussion at hand.      The real question ... doesn't change.  

I posted this on another thread ...

Jesus says. "Come to me all you that are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you REST.  Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find REST for your souls.  For my YOKE is easy, and my burden is light."

The Lord says -- I will give you REST!  What are the burdens of life ... we're SHEEP ... and sheep aren't fit to CARRY anything!   The Lord is saying -- lay it all upon me ... give it all to me ... because you're not called to carry it ... that's why we LAY OUR BURDENS at His feet -- so that He can carry it ... His promise of REST ... can be negated if your life is "performance" driven ... instead of "love" driven!

When it's driven by His Love ... you're completely RESTING IN HIM ... in His Finished work ... and from that is the outgrowth of LOVE ... from which our lives produce fruit -- EASILY because it's NATURAL.

So this back and forth ... really is a question ... are you saved?  and are you burdened to share this gospel message?

[George]

1 minute ago, Cletus said:

the Bok speaks on these false teachers.... and theeeeen gives warning to believers not to go there.  and those warnings is what you are not "taking to heart"

I'm not sure why you would say I'm not taking these issues to heart.    I'm quoting the Bible verbatim ... the ENTIRE passages ... I'm simply saying ... that FAITH without anything else is what JUSTIFIES ... and YOU KNOW if you are TRULY SAVED ... because your LIFE will be a direct reflection of His LOVE ... you cannot add anything to HIS FREE GIFT.     I've said over and over again ... we should live a holy and righteous life ... and I'm not in any way teaching someone should live in sin ... so I'm not sure why this was said ... but it is what it is. 

[George]

14 minutes ago, Cletus said:

do you have extra oil for your lamp? 

The question is for all of us ... Are you prepared to see the Lord?  And this is the real question as you have affirmed, Are you truly saved?  This is the essence of our existence to proclaim the gospel message.      Let's work toward this goal together! 

[JustPassingThru]

13 hours ago, Cletus said:

i dont know if everyone is saved.  its possible.  i do not really obsess about if people are or are not saved.  everyone i have heard speak so far speaks as one who has a relationship with God. 

Morning brother, I asked out of curiosity, because I heard of a poll taken in the churches in America a few years ago and they said only two in one hundred answered their questions in a way that showed they were born again, ...I visited my church back in Nevada for the first time in '17 since I came here in '91 and that certainly wasn't true there and I was just wondering about what you said. 

 

13 hours ago, Cletus said:

i just made a thread about the word confess out of 1john.  to answer your question, thats a tough one on this web site as the word repent has oh so many definitions.  i will go with what the bible says, which is to drop it, turn 180 degrees, walk away, and do not pick it back up again.  (dont really care to hear repent means change your mind, thats weak sauce, and there is more to repentance than that per scripture) so anyway, i would say i do both.  i do confess it, and i do turn from it as God instructs in The Book.  I do not really see where you are going with that question as the bible does say to do both. i would not say i make compartmentalize either one... they both go together.... like peas and carrots. 

 

First, let me tell you, I'm considered a freak by most of the Christians that I have contact with that have come here to visit, why, because I'm all alone and have been alone since day one, ...before '04 when Father provided internet connection, it was just me, my Bible and the Holy Spirit, ...He taught me, He protected me, He provided for me, He healed me, He was my only friend that I could trust, ...sometimes, when I was perplexed or frustrated or worried I considered phoning my pastor back in the States and I sensed the Holy Spirit grieved in me, He would speak to me and say, "All of these years have I not been there for you and now you want to call some man" ...and Psa 146:3 would pass through my mind, ...so I repented from calling my pastor, which was to stop considering to call him in my mind.

Also, maybe it's just me, ...but the Holy Spirit talks with me all day every day, first thing in the morning I relinquish all of my authority to run my life to Him and ask Him to anoint me like He did Bezaleel, in so doing He tells me what I should do and the order I should do it in my daily work, ...during the day when I have a question  He answers in my mind, ...talking with and listening to the Holy Spirit has become so natural, ...like I know the sound of my wife's voice I know the sound of His voice, if I had to describe it I would say it's Fatherly, filled with His love for me, not desiring I make a mistake, patient,  ...never harsh, cruel, demanding or loud, I have come to learn the difference between satan's voice or my own willful desires, they are always loud and impatient, ...it must be done immediately, do it my way.  

So, the reason I ask about repenting and/or confessing is the Holy Spirit never tells me to repent when I think about doing something sinful, or rather, is placed in my mind, ...rather, He gives me an appropriate verse to resist the temptation, however, ...when, I don't listen or react from the old man's natural iniquity within me, immediately I sense He is grieved so I confess, homologeō, agree with the verse He gave me that I didn't use, saying,"...yes God I agree with what You have said, I have sinned," ...and He is Faithful and just to forgive me, ...and immediately I sense/have the return of the joy of the Lord and we are in communion again.

So brother, I don't mean to be contentious, but do you see why I'm perplexed about what you say about repentance and confession?

Also, I don' have much time here so could you please post the link to your thread on 1 John, I would like to read it.

May the Lord richly bless you today...

[JustPassingThru]

13 hours ago, Cletus said:

Jdg 16:20  And she said, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awoke out of his sleep, and said, I will go out as at other times before, and shake myself. And he wist not that the LORD was departed from him.

Psa 51:11  Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

how can someone who walked away from God expect or even think the Spirit of The Living God dwell within them when they are dead in sin? 

Dear brother, David was saved, but not indwelt with the Holy Spirit like we are, the Church, the Body of Christ during this dispensation of Grace Eph 3:2, ...remember, God removed, took away the presence of the Holy Spirit from Samuel.

We find three different ways in the Word of how the Holy Spirit works with man,  Scripture tells us He comes along side of, He comes upon and He comes into, ...you, me, everyone who is a born again child of God has experienced the Holy Spirit coming along side of us/them when Father was using Him to draw us to His Son Jesus Christ for Salvation, when we understand the meaning of accepting the free Gift being presented to us we receive Jesus, in the Person of the Holy Spirit, into our physical body.

When we read the story of Samson's life we see many times the Holy Spirit came upon him to give him supernatural strength, we know this to be true because if Samson was just a buff Hulk, cutting his hair, ...the Nazarite vow was broken and not in the way God prescribe it,  ...would not of weakened him to a defenseless state.

I don't think, believe or teach that when someone has had the Holy Spirit come along side of them and they refuse the free Gift of Salvation and remain dead in their trespasses and sin, ...that the Holy Spirit dwells inside of them, so now that we are clear on that, ...please answer the question, ...it's not what I think, ...it's what God has said:

And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,  John 14:16

 

...pastor, if I can one day walk away from the Lord and lose my salvation and be thrown into the Lake of Fire, then either Jesus lied about the Holy Spirit being with me for ever and He leaves me, or Jesus is not a liar and the Holy Spirit goes with me into the Lake of Fire and that means He is not God, ...which is it?  

Can you Scripturally exegete how that could happen?    Lord bless...

[JustPassingThru]

16 hours ago, Cletus said:

i didnt read much more than a couple lines and said nope.  Book says The Holy Spirit was IN several people, including the prophets. 

i am not pitching little leagues here. 

So then, you didn't read my question, ...and since you are in the major leagues that should qualify you to answer my question, ...here it is again, ...hopefully you will take the time to read it and show us your major league proficiency to teach:

And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,  John 14:16

 

...pastor, if I can one day walk away from the Lord and lose my salvation and be thrown into the Lake of Fire, then either Jesus lied about the Holy Spirit being with me forever and He leaves me, or Jesus is not a liar and the Holy Spirit goes with me into the Lake of Fire and that means He is not God, ...which is it?  

Can you Scripturally exegete how that could happen?   

Lord bless...

Edited July 26, 2019 by JustPassingThru

[JustPassingThru]

16 hours ago, Cletus said:

Here is the link you requested:

Thanks for the link, I'll have to wait for the weekend to have the time to read it.

Lord bless