plo1988 Posted May 24, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted May 24, 2018 Here's Jude 1:9, But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Who is "The Lord" referring to in this verse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeChan82 Posted May 24, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, LeeGreenForest said: Who is "The Lord" referring to in this verse? Are you asking who the Lord is here or who the Lord was rebuking? If you are asking who the Lord is, I agree with Yowm, no question about it. If you are asking who the Lord was rebuking, the answer is the devil. Michael was contending with the devil. Instead of directly rebuking the devil, Michael said to the devil, "The Lord rebuke thee". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plo1988 Posted May 24, 2018 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 115 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 37 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, JoeChan82 said: Are you asking who the Lord is here or who the Lord was rebuking? If you are asking who the Lord is, I agree with Yowm, no question about it. If you are asking who the Lord was rebuking, the answer is the devil. Michael was contending with the devil. Instead of directly rebuking the devil, Michael said to the devil, "The Lord rebuke thee". I was asking who the Lord is here. Here's another question. In this verse, are the words "The Lord" referring directly to Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted May 25, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said: Here's Jude 1:9, But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Who is "The Lord" referring to in this verse? I think if we do a bit of deductive reasoning we will note that Jesus had not come on the scene yet and in the Old Testament (when Michael would have been contested by the devil) God was referred to as The Lord. Something to keep in mind though is that God is made up of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit and is not some 4th entity. The Son, whom we see in the physical as Jesus in the New testament, had not yet been fully revealed in the Old Testament although we do see him manifesting in different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted May 25, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,776 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,746 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, LeeGreenForest said: I was asking who the Lord is here. Here's another question. In this verse, are the words "The Lord" referring directly to Jesus? I'm going to have to say yes, it is talking about Jesus. As Yown has said, the Greek word here is "kyrios or kurios" - and other than the master [as in over a slave] definition, I find in two different lexicons that it means, "God, the Messiah". Here are a examples where the word is literally referring to Jesus Christ only. There are way more than just this. Tons more. Romans 10:9 - "...if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [κύριος] and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Philippians 2:11 - "and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord [κύριος] to the glory of God the Father." 1 Corinthians 8:6 - "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord [κύριος], Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." The same Greek work is used only a few times in the New Testament to define God, the Father only. Luke 1:32 - "He [Jesus] will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord [κύριος] God will give to him [Jesus] the throne of his father David..." Based on those stats, I would say that when Michael said, "The Lord rebuke you!" that he was referencing Jesus Christ who IS God as well as functions as the Son. So in actuality -it's both. I can't see a defense based on the root of the word and the bulk of its use to mean the Father alone without the Son. Edited May 25, 2018 by Jayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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