Mike Mclees Posted May 31, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2018 Tribulation has been with the church since its birth at Pentecost. The believers suffered at the hands of its own people. They were scattered at the hands of Saul. They were persecuted and slaughtered at the hands of Roman emperors until Constantine Even today they are murdered and tortured in the Middle East and other countries. So tribulation has been with us for two thousand years not a 7 yr thing the pre tribulationists want to call the tribulation period where they say second rate believers will suffer the antichrist and the wrath of God for seven years. In Daniel 9:27 it states And he (the antichrist) shall confirm a covenant for seven years between Israel and its enemies, but in the mist of the seven 3 1/2 yrs he shall commit the abomination of desolation at which he shall declare himself to God. So if you have paid attention to what I have stated you will see the church has been under tribulation since its birth up and until the abomination of desolation 3 1/2 years after the 7 yr peace confirmed by the antichrist after which is the time of great Tribulation under the power of the antichrist who seeks to destroy the Church of Jesus Christ from the earth using what is known as the mark of the beast whereby one swears loyalty and honor to him as god. So two thousand years tribulation and 3 1/2 years great tribulation. Don't be slow walked by Pre tribers. They manipulate the tribulation period and their false security. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted May 31, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2018 I see you are still teaching a falsehood You need to study your Bible I will check in on you later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted May 31, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said: Tribulation has been with the church since its birth at Pentecost. The believers suffered at the hands of its own people. They were scattered at the hands of Saul. They were persecuted and slaughtered at the hands of Roman emperors until Constantine Even today they are murdered and tortured in the Middle East and other countries. What makes the great tribulation "great" is it's scope. Believers being killed for their faith is nothing new like you say, it has just been isolated to certain locations at certain points in time. Just because that level of persecution hasn't yet been seen in the west doesn't mean it can't or won't be. The tide is turning so be ready. The time of great tribulation will be global. There will be nowhere to run, nowhere to hide (unless maybe you're an extreme survivalist). It is part of the time of great distress that's mentioned in Daniel 12. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time. Daniel 12:1b It will affect believers and unbelievers alike, albeit in different ways, like the flood did. 44 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said: So tribulation has been with us for two thousand years not a 7 yr thing the pre tribulationists want to call the tribulation period where they say second rate believers will suffer the antichrist and the wrath of God for seven years. Yeah, I've never understood the notion of the Christian A team and B team, and no one has been able to explain what it takes to make the cut. We know that both groups have to be believers because those who did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved are under a strong delusion. Those who the pretribbers characterize as the B team "tribulation saints" (who miss the pretrib) are described as having a martyr's faith?? So then, what does it take to make the A team? The whole notion seems a bit ludicrous to me. Hopefully, pretrib based eschatology doesn't cause it's adherents to behave foolishly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mclees Posted May 31, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: I see you are still teaching a falsehood You need to study your Bible I will check in on you later I have the best teacher in the created universe. It is good to read the Bible but real truth is revealed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted May 31, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,622 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,365 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Mike Mclees said: I have the best teacher in the created universe. It is good to read the Bible but real truth is revealed by the Holy Spirit. I agree. The Bible, all scripture, is filled with knowledge and wisdom; it's the Holy Spirit that gives the understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeChan82 Posted June 1, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Share Posted June 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Mike Mclees said: So tribulation has been with us for two thousand years not a 7 yr thing the pre tribulationists want to call the tribulation period where they say second rate believers will suffer the antichrist and the wrath of God for seven years. Maybe I don't understand this part of your statement, but I was a pre-tribulationist for a long time. The second rate believer thing is a small splinter of that group. We called them the "Split rapture" people. I used to believe that the whole church would be raptured out before the "7 year tribulation" period. That is the standard pre-trib position. Did I misunderstand you here? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted June 1, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2018 One is a believer in Jesus Christ or they are not There is no scriptural definition of a B team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 1, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,622 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,365 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2018 5 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: One is a believer in Jesus Christ or they are not There is no scriptural definition of a B team Except that is exactly the kind of foolishness in which the pretrib doctrine engages. There are two sets of believers according to pretrib dogma: one set gathered before the last week begins, and another set which endure the wrath of God and are gathered sometime during the last week. Pretrib tells us there is an elite group of believers who are at this time perfected, righteous and holy and these will be taken out early so as not to endure what pretrib thinks is God's wrath. Then there is the other group, whom I have heard described on this forum as a lesser group, pushed aside because this group doesn't believe in the pretrib rapture, marginalized through what pretrib advocates seem to think is a closeted masochistic proclivity; e.g., a need to be punished to prove our worth, etc. Then of course this second, unbelieving, masochistic set must also be sadistic to the elite set, as I have heard it said on this forum the second set believe the brand new bride must be punished. Of course this is decried as outlandish as no good husband would ever do such a thing. What we see in the behavior of the advocates of the pretrib doctrine is slanderous, prejudicial and bigoted speech. Is that any way for any believer, no matter the personal dogma, to behave? We should be bold as the lion, rock solid in our convictions, determined, unmovable, but prejudice and bigotry have no place in the heart and mind of any of us. At any point in time I'm variously hurt, frustrated, sorrowful, given to tears, angry, dejected, etc., over this very subject, but in all that I hope I comport my self with dignity, integrity, honesty, patience, understanding, and truth. We all need to reflect on this as it's the love we are commanded to show to all others. While we may not agree on all things, fiercely defending our beliefs, it's not an opening for the worst behavior of which we are capable. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Mclees Posted June 1, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 1,915 Content Per Day: 0.81 Reputation: 910 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2017 Status: Offline Author Popular Post Share Posted June 1, 2018 11 hours ago, JoeChan82 said: Maybe I don't understand this part of your statement, but I was a pre-tribulationist for a long time. The second rate believer thing is a small splinter of that group. We called them the "Split rapture" people. I used to believe that the whole church would be raptured out before the "7 year tribulation" period. That is the standard pre-trib position. Did I misunderstand you here? Thanks. I also was a pre-tib believer. The letters of paul were written in the time of the apostles. The apostles suffered greatly along with the churches under the Emperors. It would have been difficult to tell them that they would not have to suffer at the hands of their oppressors. Now we come into the modern day free world church who are not suffering at all and told tales of great woe so by using fear the church will escape before it all comes down after the antichrist confirms seven years of peace with Israel. Why would all the fire works begin just after they made peace. Both Jesus and Daniel concur it starts after the abomination of desolation 3 1/2 yrs after the peace agreement. Read Daniel 7: 25 where its says the church is handed over to the antichrist for this period. Now read Rev 15 the overcoming church ( the bride ) is in heaven just before the wrath of God is poured out on the unbeliever world. So what is the stuff the pre- trib people are trying to sell us on. Money is at the bottom line, selling pews to fill their churches, write books and sell films. Persecution and Gods wrath are two separate events. The saints are not appointed Gods wrath. Those who overcome we see standing before God having the harps of God Rev 15. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 1, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2018 40 minutes ago, Da Puppers said: Post-trib must come up with a new definition of wrath , if taking the mark is not the wrath of God. Not necessarily. Taking the mark is part of worshiping the image which is the sin of idolatry. Those who did not receive the love of the truth but chose to take pleasure in unrighteousness will be deceived by the strong delusion of the signs and wonders. I don't think any of them will ever repent. The plagues are God's corrective discipline for the believers (not unbelievers) who will be deceived into thinking the man of sin is God. Eventually the plagues will turn into God's wrath when it gets to the point that no one repents. But that will all work itself out. The main thing is to prepare for the coming time of great distress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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