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Mike Mclees

Two trbulations and the truth about them

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26 minutes ago, inchrist said:

I'm afraid you got no choice,

Pre tribs doctrine is the manipulation of scripture of the living saints to be raptured amongst the dead in Christ.

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection

Even grammatically you can not manipulate first the dead in Christ will rise with this statement first resurrection

first the dead in christ/first ressurection. They are one and the same phrases 

Pretrib is a false doctrine of the living saints to be raptured inbetween the dead in Christ.

 

 

 

 

 

Really you are not fully aware.

There are only Two types of Resurrections, One for the Just (called the First Resurrection) and the other for the Unjust (called the Second Resurrection). So ones Soul and their Body will be part of one or the other of these Resurrections.  Now in the Resurrection for the Unjust there are two three entries.  The First being the Beast and False Prophet going in before Armageddon (Rev 19:20), Satan at (Rev 20:10); and then those whose names are in the books (Rev 20:11-15. So three different entries into the Lake of Fire.

So now with the Resurrection for the Just (First Resurrection).  What makes you say that there is only one entry into this Resurrection. We have Christ the First Fruit; Next we have the dead in Christ rising first, then those who are still alive following them to meet the Lord in the Air 1 Thes 4:16-18. Now compare with 1 Cor 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own turn; Christ the First Fruits, then when He comes, those who belong to Him (1 Thes 4:16-18).  Notice, it does not say at the 2nd Coming.

Now in Daniel 12:13 - Now as for you (Daniel) go your way till the end.  You will rest, then at the end of days you will rise to receive your inheritance.  This is the Jewish homeland during the Mill.  And Rev 20:5 - insert - and the rest of the dead did not rise until the end of the 1000 years. This is the First Resurrection.  So we can see that there are different entry points into the Resurrection for the Just.  The first at 1 Thes 4:16-18. Another one at the end of days, Dan 12:13.  Then another one at the end of the 1000 years, Rev 20:5.  And this does not omit other entries into the Resurrection for the Just.

O.T Saints, Post Mill. The righteous of Israel, Pre Mill.  The Rapture of the Church (no date given, an unknown time and a mystery). Tribulation Saints, those who were killed or sent into Captivity and then died, Pre Mill.  Those who were beheaded, those who did not take the mark or worship the Beast, Pre Mill.  Those born during the 1000 years receive their glorified bodies, Post Mill.

Now if you can correctly give the time of the Rapture of the Bride, May I call you God the Father.  I have no idea when the 70th Week will begin, but once it begins, one will know the time frame of the things to come, and thus counting down to your unknown time of the Rapture being, whatever you think is right, is then false.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

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David and Last Daze banned from topic.

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15 hours ago, angels4u said:

When the rapture comes, there will be no arguing about the pre- rapture anymore, I hope people understand that we're not here anymore, Worthy will have to do without us

Who of you will still be here to fill in the blanks? 

 

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Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

angels4u, when the rapture comes there will be no pretribulationists to rapture, those of us who are alive and remain will be, as pretribbers like to call them, "tribulation saints". 

  1. The day of our rescue is the very day God's wrath begins to fall upon the wicked and the day we rest from persecution (Luke 17:26-30; 2Thes 1:6-10).
  2. The day (period of time) in which God's wrath falls suddenly upon the wicked is called the day of the Lord (1Thes 5:2-3, Isa 13:6-11; 2Peter 3:10).
  3. The day of the Lord has a cosmic sign which comes before it, which will portend or announce that the day's arrival is at hand (Joel 2:31). 
  4. John describes seeing this sign at the opening of the sixth seal (Rev 6:12-17).
  5. Jesus says that the cosmic sign comes after the tribulation of those days, which in context is the great tribulation (Matt 24:29, 21).
  6. Paul associates the coming (parousia) of Christ with our gathering together unto Him in the day of the Lord (Christ) (2Thes 2:1-2; 1Thes 4:15-17).
  7. When Christ arrives in the clouds, with the holy angels, at His coming (parousia), He is revealed for all the world to see (Rev 1:7; Matt 24:30). 
  8. When He appears the earth dwellers who have been complicit in the persecution of the church and Israel are filled with fear and begin to hide (Matt 24:30; Luke 21:25-28; Rev 6:12-17).
  9. When He appears, the saints that will have survived the unprecedented persecution will be looking to the skies in expectation of His arrival because it was announced by the cosmic sign (Luke 21:28).
  10. Christ then, in a moment of time, resurrects the dead in Christ and changes, to make immortal, the living believer (Dan 12:2; 1Cor 15:23, 51-52; Rev 20:4-6).
  11. Christ then sends forth His angels to gather His elect, the resurrected and changed, unto himself (Matt 24:31; 1Thes 4:15-17; 2Thes 2:1).
  12. Christ then escorts us to the Father's house to stand before the throne (John 14:3; Rev 7:9-17).
  13. Later the same day after a half hour of silence in Heaven God begins to pour out His wrath with the first trumpet judgement (Rev 8).

All of this takes place at an undisclosed time in the second half of the seventieth week. The unprecedented persecution of the church and Israel being over the remainder of the week will be characterized by the fierce wrath of God falling upon the unbelieving, Beast worshiping, earth dwellers.

Rev 12:11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Hallelujah

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Rebuke the Devil and he will flee you. N.T. Believers.

I don't see this happening during the 70th Week

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Rebuke the Devil and he will flee you. N.T. Believers.

I don't see this happening during the 70th Week

In Christ

Montana Marv

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

MM, It is interesting that when Jesus told the disciples that He must first suffer and die, because that must take place before He enters into glory, Peter responded saying not so Lord.

Mat 16:22  Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23  But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Luk 24:26  Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Notice what Jesus said to Peter when Peter wanted the glory (Christ's reign) without the suffering (the cross).

"Get thee behind me Satan"

Would that apply to all those who preach glory without suffering?

Act 14:22  Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1Th 3:3  That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
1Th 3:4  For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Php 1:29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1Pe 3:14  But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1Pe 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Act 5:41  And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Mat 24:9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Glory comes only after suffering, not without it, as the prosperity gospel teaches and escapist eschatological models lend to.

2Ti 2:11  It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12  If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2Ti 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Wait! hold on! The latest is in from the Grand High Muckety Muck of the pretrubulational council. He says that it is only Jews and "tribulation saints" who must suffer for Jesus if they expect to reign with Him. I guess that settles it, we get to escape suffering. Whew that was close. 

"Shall we be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease, while others fought to win the prize and sailed through bloody seas"

Rom 8:17  And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb.

Edited by Steve Conley

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On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:28 PM, Cobalt1959 said:

Revelation 6:12-17  12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,  13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.  14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.  15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.  16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand
?"

 

You can speculate that the first 6 seals are not God's direct wrath.  You do not have that option after the 6th seal is opened.  Everything after that is directly God's wrath. 

I think that this is an excellent point. This passage deserves to be looked at. In this passage, we see those that hide in caves see that the wrath of God has come.  They know that they are guilty. Now, please consider Revelation 11:15-19.

Revelation 11:15-19 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Now here in Revelation 11, we see a far greater authority declaring that the wrath is come.  The folks hiding in caves see it coming, but in Revelation 11, heaven declares it.  

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4 minutes ago, JoeChan82 said:

I think that this is an excellent point. This passage deserves to be looked at. In this passage, we see those that hide in caves see that the wrath of God has come.  They know that they are guilty. Now, please consider Revelation 11:15-19.

Revelation 11:15-19 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Now here in Revelation 11, we see a far greater authority declaring that the wrath is come.  The folks hiding in caves see it coming, but in Revelation 11, heaven declares it.  

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Dear brother, the fifth seal promises God's wrath, the sixth seal portends God's wrath, the sealing of the 144,000 protects them through God's wrath, the innumerable multitude find themselves safe having been removed from the sphere of God's wrath, the seventh seal pronounces God's wrath, the half hour of silence in Heaven contemplates God's wrath, the blowing of the first trumpet initiates God's wrath.

No more time right now.

Hallelujah

BTW, cobalt has been removed from the topic so he can't respond unless it is done through private message. I don't even know if he will get a notification of your comment.

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On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:14 PM, Brother Duke said:

I would submit that the 144,000 are the bride.  I know that many think the bride is the greater church but as a husband who would you want with you by your side other than you bride and that is where the 144,000 are.

Revelation 21:9-11 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God

This city has foundations named for the apostles and gates named for the 12 tribes of Israel.  I think, based on these verses that the bride will include all those saved from Adam to the end of the world, Jew and gentile alike.  I think the occupants of the city are in view here and not the city itself.  Since Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, I believe that all those saved must look to Him, whether looking forward to Him like the Old Testament believers did or looking back to the cross like we did.  

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On 5/31/2018 at 11:33 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

One is a believer in Jesus Christ or they are not

There is no scriptural definition of a B team

Dang this is the only thing you've gotten right since reading your posts

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