JoeChan82 Posted June 1, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples. That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head. I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost. I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others. There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 On 5/31/2018 at 9:42 PM, JoeChan82 said: I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples. That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head. I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost. I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others. There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. the Church was born on Pentecost. Jesus, in Matthew 16 said "upon this rock I will build my Church." He did not say, "upon this rock I am building" or "will continue to build..." It was future tense in Jesus' ministry. And it came into existence on the day of Pentecost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted June 3, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 12:42 PM, JoeChan82 said: I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples. That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head. I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost. I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others. There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. I believe the Church begain on the day of Penticost when the Apostles first recieved the Holy Spirit and thus first came to the real understanding of the Gospel message of the LORD Jesus Christ.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeChan82 Posted June 3, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 Thanks all for the replies. Because of the reasons ya'll gave I have never been dogmatic on my position. I was wondering about the ramification of taking one position or another. I mean does one position make me part of the Reformed camp and the other position make me part of the Church is the new Israel camp or the Israel is completely different from the church camp. You know, that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 3, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 3, 2018 Stephen used the same word Church/Assembly for Israel in Mount Sinai but was this the Church God spoke of or just the patriarchs whose children would become the church? I submit that like Paul said that God's annointed have his Holy Spirit in them and this is the test of being in the Church. This would lead me to believe the Church that Christ spoke of started on Pentecost but was spoke of throughout the Old Testament. 2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted June 12, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.47 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) On 5/31/2018 at 10:42 PM, JoeChan82 said: I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples. That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head. I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost. I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others. There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. Where the people who heard the disciple's preaching saved before Calgary? The Seventy Sent Out 10 Now after this the Lord appointed [a]seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come. 2 And He was saying to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. 4 Carry no money belt, no bag, no shoes; and greet no one on the way. 5 Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house.’ 6 If a [c]man of peace is there, your peace will rest on him; but if not, it will return to you. 7 Stay in [d]that house, eating and drinking [e]what they give you; for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not keep moving from house to house. 8 Whatever city you enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you; 9 and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet [f]be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. (Luke 10:1-12 NASB) Did the people who were baptized by John have to be baptized again after Pentecost? Is the Church a requirement for salvation? What about the thief on the cross? Edited June 12, 2018 by Saved.One.by.Grace 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted June 13, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2018 Interesting stuff there..... I wish I had something of value to add, but I don’t.....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted June 13, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,828 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2018 The ekklesia (the gathered / called out) began with Abraham* (Hebrews 11). Before the cross it was on credit (ahead of the actual purchase price being paid by Christ on the cross). After the cross it is by credit (after the actual purchase price was paid on the cross by Christ). God accredits the righteousness of Christ into our accounts with him through faith. * Before Abraham, those who lived by faith were more or less individuals who did so. But the "church" the gathering (assembly / group) a specific people began with father Abraham. And since then the covenants changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyMidnight Posted June 14, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 536 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 563 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) On 5/31/2018 at 10:42 PM, JoeChan82 said: I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples. That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head. I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost. I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others. There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. The consensus is it began with Pentecost as already noted above, but you might find this explanation a little more revealing as to the real significance of why it was at Pentecost. http://considerthegospel.org/2012/05/27/the-feast-of-pentecost-another-allusion-in-the-divine-plan/ Also, this may be of interest as well as to when the New Testament actually begins. http://dowlenroad.com/?p=4027 Keep in mind as well, that Christ came on a mission to save the Jews, not the gentiles while he was alive. Matthew 15:22-24. That came after. Matthew 28:18-20. Cheers JoeChan82! Edited June 14, 2018 by RockyMidnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted June 14, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,058 Content Per Day: 0.42 Reputation: 1,031 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) On 6/1/2018 at 3:42 AM, JoeChan82 said: I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples. That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head. I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost. I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others. There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. 'And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, “Well spake the Holy Ghost .. by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, .... Saying, “Go unto this people, and say, ...... Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; ........ and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, .. and their ears are dull of hearing, .... and their eyes have they closed; ...... lest they should see with their eyes, ........ and hear with their ears, .......... and understand with their heart, ............ and should be converted, .............. and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.' (Act 28:25-28) Hello @JoeChan82, I believe that the Church which is the Body of Christ of which He, Himself, is the Head, began with the laying aside of Israel in unbelief (temporarily) at the end of the Acts period: prior to the scattering of Israel in AD70, possibly in AD67. It is marked by the quotation from Isaiah 6:9,10, in Acts 28:26-27, which, when quoted previously by the Lord Jesus Christ, always marked a point of crisis and rejection (Matt.13:14,15; John 12:40). For Israel the final point of crisis came with their continued rejection of the Truth as ministered to them by Paul (Acts 28:22-31), following approx. 40 years of opportunity to repent. Salvation was then sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28) * This rejection by Israel was provisioned for by God, in Christ, by His foreknowledge, before the foundation of the world, and the truth of the Mystery, previously hidden in God (Eph. 3:9), was made known to Paul to administer, as God's Steward, to repair the breach. This truth is written for our learning in the epistles written by Paul subsequently, from prison, in, (Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Timothy and Titus). * Pentecost was not the beginning of the Church which is being called out today. There would not have been a gentile among them on that occasion, except for proselytes, for it was a Feast of the Jews. Gentiles were also grafted into the Olive tree of Israel in Acts 10 for one purpose only, and that was to inject life into a failing tree, by making Israel jealous (Romans 11:11). * The Gospels are an extension of the Old Testament, and the ministry of our Lord during His first advent was to 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel' (Matt. 15:24). The ministry of the twelve was also to that same company (Matt.10:6; Gal.2:9). Only Paul was specifically an Apostle to the Gentiles, and to him only the stewardship of the dispensation of the Mystery was given. (Ephesians 3:2, 6-9) Praise God! There is much that could be said here, Joe, but I hope this will give you food for thought. Thank you. In Christ Jesus Chris Edited June 14, 2018 by Christine 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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