JoeChan82 Posted June 14, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Author Share Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) Thank you Christine. No doubt that Acts is a transitional book. You are, however, the first person that I have ever heard say that the church began at the end of Acts. I have heard that the church began at Pentecost and I have heard that it started with the disciples as recorded in the gospels. I like some of the points you made in your post. Now I have a third option to look at. ? There is a consistency in your arguments that I appreciate. Edited June 14, 2018 by JoeChan82 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeChan82 Posted June 14, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 95 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/21/1958 Author Share Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, RockyMidnight said: The consensus is it began with Pentecost as already noted above, but you might find this explanation a little more revealing as to the real significance of why it was at Pentecost. Hello Rocky. There is an obvious connection of the Old Testament convocations and their associated feasts to the gospels as well as the rest of the New Testament. In fact, until I understood that the last supper was indeed the Passover, this passage confused me. Once I realized that Jesus was eating the Passover with His disciples, I understood that when Christ said, "Take, eat; this is my body." he was revealing Himself as the Passover. 1 Corinthians 5:7 … For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Matthew 26:26-28 ¶ And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. So I understand the importance of Pentecost as well. I followed the links you posted and read all of it. Good stuff. Edited June 14, 2018 by JoeChan82 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 17, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,182 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,483 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 17, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 12:42 PM, JoeChan82 said: I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples. That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head. I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost. I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others. There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. Hi JoeChan, Interesting question. Now the `Church` the Body of Christ, are the called out ones from Israel and the Gentiles. They (we) are blessed to be `in Christ,` by His Holy Spirit. When Christ ascended to the Father He sent His Holy Spirit to make the believers like unto Himself. We have the divine nature within us by His Spirit. This was not possible prior to Christ ascending and giving His Holy Spirit with His nature for us. Thus on the day of Pentecost the message was to the house of Israel. Many repented and received of the Holy Spirit. Later we see that the Apostle Peter was told to go to the house of Cornelius, a Gentile and pass the blessing on to them. Thus we then see Jews and Gentiles coming into the Body of Christ. As we read in God`s word, it was at the end of Acts that the leaders of Israel turned from the Holy Spirit, and thus the nation went into partial blindness. Thus, I believe there was a transition period, an overlap of the purpose of God for Israel and the beginnings of the Body of Christ, (from Pentecost to the end of Acts). Note: Today we see the two purposes overlapping. Israel, as a nation has returned to their land and the countdown is on to them being delivered from their enemies. We, however as the Body of Christ, purpose, are being brought to maturity by the Holy Spirit, and when we are taken to our eternal setting, then the time clock for Israel, the last 7 years of chastisement, will start. regards, Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 On 6/3/2018 at 4:49 AM, shiloh357 said: the Church was born on Pentecost. Jesus, in Matthew 16 said "upon this rock I will build my Church." He did not say, "upon this rock I am building" or "will continue to build..." It was future tense in Jesus' ministry. And it came into existence on the day of Pentecost. No, the church was not born on Pentecost, it was conceived. Why do you think Paul felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8, is because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said: No, the church was not born on Pentecost, it was conceived. Why do you think Paul felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8, is because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet. God bless. Nope. The Church was born at Pentecost. That is the only correct and Christian way to see it. That has nothing to do with I Cor. 15:8. Paul was simply using a common rhetorical reference common that at that time to refer to those who received a favor that they did not deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.41 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 5 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Nope. The Church was born at Pentecost. That is the only correct and Christian way to see it. That has nothing to do with I Cor. 15:8. Paul was simply using a common rhetorical reference common that at that time to refer to those who received a favor that they did not deserve. Several questions come to mind. Where there saved individuals before the Church? Did the people John the Baptist baptized need to be re-baptized in the Church to be obedient to Jesus' words? When the 70 were sent out by Jesus, where some saved before the Church started at Pentecost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Just now, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Several questions come to mind. Where there saved individuals before the Church? Did the people John the Baptist baptized need to be re-baptized in the Church to be obedient to Jesus' words? When the 70 were sent out by Jesus, where some saved before the Church started at Pentecost? Being "saved" and being part of the church are not the same thing. Salvation was possible prior to the church age, but OT saints were never part of the church. In fact, there were not OT prophecies regarding the Church. It was mystery that was revealed by the apostles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.41 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Being "saved" and being part of the church are not the same thing. Salvation was possible prior to the church age, but OT saints were never part of the church. In fact, there were not OT prophecies regarding the Church. It was mystery that was revealed by the apostles. So to clarify not to argue, you're saying John the Baptist was saved (because He recognized Jesus for who He was and tried to defer to Him regarding Jesus' baptism), but John the Baptist was not part of the Church Age neither was he an Old Testament prophet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: So to clarify not to argue, you're saying John the Baptist was saved (because He recognized Jesus for who He was and tried to defer to Him regarding Jesus' baptism), but John the Baptist was not part of the Church Age neither was he an Old Testament prophet. He was a prophet under the Old Covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,054 Content Per Day: 15.41 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: He was a prophet under the Old Covenant. Yes, I see that and agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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