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JoeChan82

When did the Church begin

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On 6/29/2018 at 6:49 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Several questions come to mind.

  1. Where there saved individuals before the Church?
  2. Did the people John the Baptist baptized need to be re-baptized in the Church to be obedient to Jesus' words?
  3. When the 70 were sent out by Jesus, where some saved before the Church started at Pentecost?

Act 19:1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples  Act 19:2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”

 Act 19:3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”  Act 19:4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

 Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.  Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

The outpouring of the of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was the beginning of the church.  Prior to that time the Spirit had fallen on people for specific purpose but had not come to reside in them.  Prior to the church believers went to the bosom of Abraham.  All who believed prior to Christ's death and resurrection fell into this category of believers looking for their redemption to be provided by the promised Messiah.  

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I could take off on this but hard questions and observations are not tolerated.

Edited by ejected

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My belief is the Church started with Jesus Christ and the Disicples. The first time church (ecclesia) was used was when Jesus said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail agains.” (Matthew 16:18). 

Eastern Orthodox believe their church began at Pentecost (Acts 2). (The Orthodox Church Simple Guides, Katherine Stark). 

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While is can be asserted that the Assembly referred to Israel clear back in Sinai, the focus is "I will build MY assembly" stated by Yeshua.  "will" being a future tense word and "my" being a special possessive.  So the Ekklesia, Assembly, Church clearly is something that is exclusive to Yeshua.  And Yeshua instructed His followers to wait in Jerusalem for the HS to come, which He did on Shavuot (Pentecost).  I believe it was at that point the Assembly of Yeshua came into true existence as a definable entity.

 

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On 9/15/2018 at 1:58 AM, OldCoot said:

While is can be asserted that the Assembly referred to Israel clear back in Sinai, the focus is "I will build MY assembly" stated by Yeshua.  "will" being a future tense word and "my" being a special possessive.  So the Ekklesia, Assembly, Church clearly is something that is exclusive to Yeshua.  And Yeshua instructed His followers to wait in Jerusalem for the HS to come, which He did on Shavuot (Pentecost).  I believe it was at that point the Assembly of Yeshua came into true existence as a definable entity.

 

Agreed; the Church is something unique to Jesus Christ.

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On 7/1/2018 at 4:09 PM, Willa said:

Several questions come to mind.

  1. Where there saved individuals before the Church?
  2. Did the people John the Baptist baptized need to be re-baptized in the Church to be obedient to Jesus' words?
  3. When the 70 were sent out by Jesus, where some saved before the Church started at Pentecost?

1. Yes; but by different standards Eph. 2:8

2. No: John the Baptist was a Christian; hence his Baptisms although theologically incomplete; were nevertheless Valid even if not licit.  Salvation for THEM would have been accounted for in a similar manner as OT salvation was possible by a Just God.

Of NOTE: These Baptisms were prior to John 3:5 and Mt 28: 19

These souls could then be rebaptized with the new Commanded manner of Mt 28:19 

3.  Salvation is a lifetime PROCESS, so they were in the process of being "saved."

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

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On 5/31/2018 at 9:42 PM, JoeChan82 said:

I think that the church began with Jesus and His disciples.  That seems to fit the definition of a called out assembly with Jesus Christ as the head.  I have seen posts in other threads where it is stated that the church began on the day of Pentecost.  I think that the church existed before Pentecost and was empowered by the Holy Spirit and members added.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

I am not dogmatic about my position on this and really want to hear from others.  There must be some ramifications to which position one holds, but I don't know what they are. I wrote a Statement of Faith once in view of a call and was corrected on this and the man correcting me was very insistent. I don't understand why this is so important, but I want to know. 

My take:

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

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1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

My take:

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

and just what does that mean.....    is he going to build the Church on Peter...…     or what was the rock....     and who really did most of the work starting the church....   Paul.....   John....  Peter......

Where were they when this was stated?

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14 hours ago, other one said:

and just what does that mean.....    is he going to build the Church on Peter...…     or what was the rock....     and who really did most of the work starting the church....   Paul.....   John....  Peter......

Where were they when this was stated?

Need I really explain it all? I'm not Catholic.

The 'law of first mention' of the church, by the Lord Himself. Peter was the very first apostle to confess by revelation of the Holy Spirit, that: Matthew 16:16 (KJV) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 

Thereby, by that statement that was revealed to Simon Peter by the Holy Spirit, Christ (the Rock and Foundation) will build His church on that statement of fact. 

What does the most work of the apostles have to do with establishing the exact time the church was founded and by whom? I quoted one verse on when I believe the moment of the church (body of Christ) was established. 

Where were they when Jesus spoke this verse? All His apostles were with Him, Saul was still Saul and doing what he did best, persecuting the Jews. 

If I were Catholic, I'd be giving you a much different answer.

Sabe? 

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