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144.000 Thousand and Gods focus on Israel.


angels4u

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22 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Have you considered that Peter applied Joel's prophecy to the giving of the promise of the Father at Pentecost:

Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15  For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16  But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18  And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19  And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Hallelujah

Hi Steve....

Brilliant. Scripture always has a few witnesses.......In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

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On 6/2/2018 at 9:39 AM, angels4u said:

144 Thousand
   God's focus turns to Israel

The fullness of the Gentiles will conclude the age of Grace with the rapture of the Church. The Lord will then once again call on Israel to be a spiritual witness and light to the nations during the seven year tribulation that will follow. The Jewish witnesses will not only include the much speculated about Two Witnesses (many believe to be Elijah & Moses) (Revelation 11:3-13), but also 144,000 sealed Jewish witnesses made up of 12,000 Jews from each of Israel’s 12 tribes (Revelation 7:4-8).

Despite terrible persecution and martyrdom, hundreds of millions “of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues” will hear the witness that they proclaim about the coming Messiah (Revelation 7:9). As a result, these hundreds of millions will become tribulation saints (Revelation 7:14-17). During the Great Tribulation, many will worship the antichrist and take his mark (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 13:15-18). But others will see through his deception and teach the truth, even though it will cost them their lives (Daniel 11:33,35). These courageous believers who by the witnesses of the 144 thousand and the two prophets give their lives to Jesus will risk everything to lead others to Christ. Many will be martyred for their faith (Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 13:10), but their very willingness to die for the truth will inspire some to seek Jesus. Though the world will heartlessly discard them, God will not forget them (1 Corinthians 15:58). To Him, will be “like the stars forever and ever” (Daniel 12:3).

These new believers are those to whom God will give “insight” (Daniel 12:3), an understanding of His Word and the time in which they are living. Wisely, they will give teach and give testimony to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in order to encourage believers and reach people in the midst of the terrible suffering.

The Sealing of the 144,000

Even though the 144,000 Jews will be miraculously used by God, their life will be full of turmoil and persecution thanks to the Antichrist. Just as the Antichrist will demand his followers take the mark of the beast in either their right hand or forehead, the 144,000 witnesses will receive their own seal of God on their forehead. These 12,000 Jews from all twelve tribes of Israel will be tribulation evangelist. The seal of God upon this group will protect them as God judges and pours out His wrath on a non-believing earth. The non-believing earth will stand in rebellion against God, but the 144,000 as witnesses of God will faithfully proclaim the gospel. They will keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 12:17) in the face of severe persecution inflicted on them by God’s enemies.

They will escape the impact of God’s wrath, such as the "locust" plague which will hurt only "the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads" (Revelation 9:4). This will free them to conduct their worldwide ministry of evangelism in those last days. These faithful 144,000 will be His voice in a world marked by unbridled human sin and darkened by the reign of the false Christ. That will be their role.

A Multitude Will be Saved

One of the most frequently asked questions in regard to the Tribulation time period is whether or not anyone will come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ during that difficult time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7
“For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way”.

After the Rapture the Holy Spirit will still convict people of sin, but his restraining ministry will be over and all of satan’s evil will break loose on earth. We already know that 144 thousand people from the 12 tribes of Israel will be set apart for the Lord, but they will not be alone!

Those who come to believe during the Great Tribulation will be in one of two groups. The first group will be the remnant of physical Israel sealed for protection and called to testify concerning Christ (Revelation 7:1-8). The second group will be comprised of the masses of gentiles who believe in Christ and suffer persecution and martyrdom for their faith. These martyrs will come out of the Great Tribulation through death, but their suffering will instantly give way to victorious worship as they join the heavenly chorus in praise to “our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb” (Revelation 7:10)

John tells us about them in his vision of a different group, other than the 144,000 (Revelation 7:9-17). We know this is another body of people because rather than definite number of 144,000, this group is comprised of a crowd so large that no one could count how many there were. Instead of coming from the twelve tribes of Israel, this crowd came from every nation. The fact that this large group "have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:14) demonstrates that they have believed in Christ and had their sins forgiven. This large a gathering of believers—so large that they cannot be counted—may seem a bit surprising in light of Jesus’ teaching that many are called but only a few are chosen (Matthew 22:14) and that only a few enter through the narrow gate to find eternal life (Matthew 7:14); yet with the rate of growth of the world’s population so rapid, a few or a small percentage of the vast number now living still constitutes a considerable group. Remember that this crowd comes from "every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues" throughout the world (Revelation 7:9), so even though they are a small minority, the number is still significantly large.

This event will be the largest soul harvest the world has even seen. Some Biblical scholars believe that more people may come to Jesus in period than in the last 2,000 years since Christ first walked the Earth.

Conclusion

What would it take for Israel to come to believe in Christ as a nation? Regrettably, it will take the awesome time of the Tribulation, with all of its judgments falling from Heaven, and its persecution of the Jewish people by the Antichrist. Through the testimony of the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and the Two Witnesses, by the end of the Tribulation Israel will be able, willing, and eager to receive their long-lost Yeshua as Messiah:

Zechariah 12:10
“And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon him whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”

Zechariah 14:4
“And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east.”

When Israel repents and believes in the One whom they have pierced, the Lord Jesus Christ will return to the very place, the Mount of Olives, where He bade Jerusalem farewell so many centuries ago.

God will never leave the world without a witness to Himself. Fellow Christian, you and I are His witnesses during the present era as we await our Lord’s coming for His church. We must be faithful to represent Him because many around us need to hear and embrace the good news that Jesus saves. We will face opposition, but we can rest assured that He will protect us as long as He has a job for us to do just as He will protect the 144,000 in the future. The pressure upon us is far less direct and harsh than that upon our future fellow-witnesses, but on us the temptation to remain silent will perhaps be more subtle. Let’s not be lulled to sleep by the enemy. Let’s redeem the time because the days are evil.

References 
Holy Bible
Dr. Thomas McCall: Zola Levitt Ministries
Chuck Missler: Koinonia House
Charles Swindoll: Daniel, Volume 2: God’s Plan for the Future
Charles Swindoll: Revelation—Unveiling the End
Tim LaHaye and Ed Hindson: The Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy 
Grant Jeffrey: Countdown To The Apocalypse
Others

Sorry, but I think you mistaken. First, there is not one word about the 144,000 that they will testify or witness or preach. Second, I don't agree with your take on the great crowd, too large to number. 

Chapter 7 is an intermission places between the 6th and 7th seals. The 7th seal officially opens the 70th week, so everything must be ready. Have you ever been at a play where they close the curtains between acts? What happens behind the curtain? They are rearranging the set so it will "fit" the next act. 

This is what John is doing in chapter 7. You see, before the 7th seal can open the trumpet judgments, which will come with God's wrath, two events MUST take place (rearranging the set). 

First, the 144,000 must be sealed for their protection, and second, the church MUST be taken out of the world to miss the wrath of God.  This great crowd, too large to number, is the just raptured church. John did not see the rapture, but saw the effects of it: the church in heaven. 

Don't get thrown off by "great tribulation." John is not jumping around in time, and neither is he speaking of the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of that will come late in the SECOND HALF of the week. No, John is talking about the end of the church age. When people die for their testimony, it is great tribulation for them! How could it get any greater? They cannot be killed twice. Where do we find the days of GT in Revelation? AFTER chapter 14 where God warns of the mark, and in chapter 15 where we see the beheaded begin to arrive in heaven.

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On 7/2/2018 at 12:00 PM, angels4u said:

What do you believe? The 144.000 will not come from heaven..

I'm ok if you disagree :)

Agree to disagree?

They come from earth, but end up in heaven as firstfruits! 

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3 hours ago, Hadasa said:

Yes this coincides with this:

Where O Death is Your Victory? 1 Corinthians 15:50-52
50Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.…

Those who are preserved through the Tribulation and do not experience martyrdom will experience an instant death and resurrection by Christ. And one person experienced this in her life in Christ. Her life was a precursor of what will be for the end time Bride who too are intended for an immaculate purpose, this portion is of the Rev.14 144,000 they are not the same as the Rev.7 144,00. The symbolism of Rev.12 represents two covenants those of the New and of the Old. The New covenant portion is made up of gentiles who are called His Beloved brought under Israel (The apple tree- SONG OF SONGS) by the New Covenant. They will NOT BE HARMED = have their lives taken by man. A sword shall pierce their heart though. We know how painful it is to see our brethren suffer as Christ.

The Calling of the Gentiles Romans 9:24-26
24including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles? 25As He says in Hosea: “I will call them My people who are not My people, and I will call her My Beloved who is not My beloved,” 26and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”…

As all the matriarchs and patriarchs of the OT where precursors and their lives represented Christ and Israel and what was to come , Mother Miriam (Mary ) is an example of what the End Time Bride will be. I know it is a touchy subject for some in this forum but it is true. What was designed for her is designed in spirit for a portion of the Bride of Christ. This includes the assumption into heaven or what many in this forum call raptured and what the scriptures call a 'snatching up'. I can prove with scripture that she was snatched up and this is why it is purposed for the the woman of Rev.12 = the Bride in her immaculate image.

In Rev.14 -this group of people are given a new song, which is the everlasting gospel. They were redeemed from among men and no lie was found in them, they are WITHOUT BLEMISH= Immaculate , spotless without blemish (AFTER THEIR REDEMPTION). This is why it is important to study the scriptures to know CORRECTLY those things about Mary.

 

Hi Hadasa....

You said......"I can prove with scripture that she was snatched up and this is why it is purposed for the the woman of Rev.12 = the Bride in her immaculate image."

. I'm an EX-catholic for many years, but I've never seen any proof. Not by any priest or anyone. It was always 'inferred'.

So......let's have it then.....the scripture proof.

You also said....."the Rev.14 144,000 they are not the same as the Rev.7 144,00".

Well, I'm interested in hearing "WHY"...... again, scriptural support please.

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If you want to see an example of the old and the new covenants being unified by Christ, study the book of Ruth. In the book of Ruth you have a Jewish and a Gentile bride, namely Naomi and Ruth. Both are redeemed by the child born in Bethlehem Judah. That child is the kinsman redeemer. 

Ruth 4:13-22 ¶ So Boaz took Ruth, and she was his wife: and when he went in unto her, the LORD gave her conception, and she bare a son. 14 And the women said unto Naomi, Blessed be the LORD, which hath not left thee this day without a kinsman, that his name may be famous in Israel. 15 And he shall be unto thee a restorer of thy life, and a nourisher of thine old age: for thy daughter in law, which loveth thee, which is better to thee than seven sons, hath born him. 16 And Naomi took the child, and laid it in her bosom, and became nurse unto it. 

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1 hour ago, Hadasa said:

A person spent page upon page saying why Mother Miriam(Mary) is not the God Bearer and posting all kinds of scripture which they falsely interpreted.

Now you are playing at semantics. You cannot explain nor define the trinity. If that is your basis for defending the assumption of Mary, you will persuade no one here.

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1 hour ago, Hadasa said:

 And they were given a New song , the everlasting Gospel!

Hi Hadasa.....

Rev 14..... the new song is NOT the everlasting gospel.

"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders; and no man could learn that song but the 144,000, which were redeemed from the earth...."...Rev 14:3

No man could learn that song but the 144,000. The new song is not the everlasting gospel.

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1 hour ago, Hadasa said:

The Holy Trinity is defined by the Word , no semantics needed , HE'S GOT IT COVERED! And they were given a New song , the everlasting Gospel!

Make no mistake, I believe the trinity. What I don't believe is making Mary the Queen of Heaven by saying that Christ is God and therefore Mary is the mother of God. That is the semantics to which I referred. 

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2 hours ago, Hadasa said:

If only your opinion NOT SUBSTANTIATED  by scripture is your only means of rebuttal then you will NOT convince me otherwise. PROVE ME WRONG!

The Bible says nothing about the assumption of Mary. Nothing for it. Nothing against it. So arguing from a position of silence is pointless.

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10 minutes ago, Hadasa said:

You do not see it because you do not read on . You think the Revelation is in chronological order. John states the condition of those which receive the NEW SONG then reveals from where it comes from and who is pouring it out upon peoples and nations.

Revelation 14

The Lamb and the 144,000

14 Then I looked, and there was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion! And with him were one hundred forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the one hundred forty-four thousand who have been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; these follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been redeemed from humankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found; they are blameless.

The Messages of the Three Angels

Then I saw another angel flying in midheaven, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to THOSE who live on the earth—to every nation and tribe and language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, for the hour of his judgment has come; and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”( The New Song can not be anything other than the everlasting gospel for there is NO OTHER WRITTEN TRUTH UNDER HEAVEN. This is presently being proclaimed to them by the Angel of the Lord as proclaimed to Mary and hence , the Song of Mary which could not come before the angel proclaimed the GOOD NEWS TO HER. This too for this portion of the Bride.) In this the Two witnesses too come forth and now the following words come and correlate with Rev.18 and Rev19. No chronological order but Gods order revealed for these end of times. If not this way the enemy would know all God's plans. As it is God reveals His plans to His Elect.

Witnesses Against IsraelAmos 3:6-8
6If a trumpet sounds in a city, will the people not tremble? If calamity comes to a city, has not the LORD caused it? 7Surely the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing His plan to His servants the prophets. 8The lion has roared—who will not fear? The Lord GOD has spoken—who will not prophesy?… The Witnesses will hammer the Everlasting gospel HOME and come with the power to perform many of God's righteous judgements during this time.They will affirm all that which 144, 000  Rev14 teach and support those sealed from out of the Old covenant, they will speak what the seven thunders speak, this is only for them (concerning the message of the thunders of God). BIG THINGS COMING the governments and denominations are right to fear the toppling of their thrones.

REV14 continued:

Then another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”

Then another angel, a third, followed them, crying with a loud voice, “Those who worship the beast and its image, and receive a mark on their foreheads or on their hands, 10 they will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and they will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image and for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of[b] Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who from now on die in the Lord.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them.”

Reaping the Earth’s Harvest

14 Then I looked, and there was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like the Son of Man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand! 15 Another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to the one who sat on the cloud, “Use your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So the one who sat on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Then another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over fire, and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Use your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle over the earth and gathered the vintage of the earth, and he threw it into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20 And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the wine press, as high as a horse’s bridle, for a distance of about two hundred miles.

Hi Hadasa....

The following scripture is from Rev 7. It follows Rev 6 where the first 6 seals have been opened/unsealed.....

And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”  And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel. (Rev. 7:2-4)......( note...they only have the seal of God )
So these 144,000 are "sealed". And sealed is usually a term that means saved. ( Eph 1:13, 4:30....2Cor 1:22 )
Why are these 144,000 chosen to be sealed?  It is these who place their faith in Jesus when He appears in the sky, prior to the Rapture.
In Rev 14, we see them again....
Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads . . . These have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, (Rev. 14:1,4)
Now we see that they have the name of Jesus and the name of God the Father written on their foreheads.
And we are also told that these are redeemed from mankind as "first fruits". They are saved at this point.
It is the first fruits of the harvest that BEGINS when the fullness of the gentiles has come in; the moment after the partial hardening has been lifted.......they can then come to faith.
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.  And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zionhe will banish ungodliness from Jacob” (Rom. 11:25-26)
The "fullness of the gentiles has come in" is a harvest term, the "gathering in" of the crop. So, after the full number of the gentiles to be harvested have been saved, it is only then that the "first fruits" of the Jewish harvest would begin. In ancient Israel, the first fruit offerings were given to God, with a "pledge" that the rest of the harvest would come in.
All of Israel is not saved when Jesus comes on the clouds....(Rev 6:16, Rev 1:7, Matt 24:30, Mark 13:26 )
The prophet Joel says that prior to Jesus coming on the clouds, God will send His Spirit in the form of dreams and visions....
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. (Joel 2:28)
This will be a mighty move of the Holy Spirit, and will prepare the apostate remnant for what comes next....
And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke.  The sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.  (Joel 2:30-31)
After the great move of the Spirit of grace depicted in Joel 2:28 and Zech. 12:10 comes the Celestial Earthly Disturbance, the sixth seal of Rev. 6:12-15 and Matt. 24:29.
Joel continues.....
And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls. (Joel 2:32)
Now we look at the testimony of Revelation.....
The 6th seal is opened and we see the Celestial Earthly Disturbance.....Rev 6: 12-14,  Math 24:29, Joel 2: 30-31
Jesus is seen coming on the clouds and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.......Rev 6: 15-17, Math 24: 29-30, Rev 1:7
The 144,000 are then sealed. They call upon the Lord....Rev 7: 1-8, Joel 2: 32
This small group of first fruits of the Jewish remnant is then raptured into heaven with the saints of all ages....Rev 7: 9-17
They escape the "Day of the Lord"....Joel 2:32
This then fulfills the ancient prophecy from Isaiah....
In that day the Lord will start his threshing from the flowing stream of the Euphrates to the brook of Egypt, and you will be gathered up one by one, O sons of Israel. It will come about also in that day that a great trumpet will be blown, and those who were perishing in the land of Assyria and who were scattered in the land of Egypt will come and worship the Lord in the holy mountain at Jerusalem. (Isa. 27:12-13)
----------------------------------------
So, this is all scriptural. Nothing here is of my own opinion or interpretation.
I have yet to find ANY scripture that supports the notion that the 144,000 of Rev 7 will evangelize the world, or that they will be sealed before or at the beginning of the tribulation. 
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