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angels4u

144.000 Thousand and Gods focus on Israel.

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1 hour ago, angels4u said:

…16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that ,we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.18Therefore encourage one another with these word. Matt.24:16-18

Yep and there isn't one word in that verse that says anything about a pre-trib rapture. In fact if you want to read more about that verse read Rev 20. It will plainly show you when this happens. At the second coming 

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"I have there is no verse in the Bible that even hints that a pre-trib resurrection of the dead in Christ is going to happen"

 

Oh but there is .... read your Bible son

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13 hours ago, angels4u said:

…16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that ,we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.18Therefore encourage one another with these word. Matt.24:16-18

Yes these verses support a rapture...  But they do not give any timing.. And they do not say it will be pre-trib..

The only timing given in the Bible about the rapture is that it will happen at the last trump..

1 Corinthians 15: KJV

50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

 

The book of Revelations reveal that there will be 7 trumpets and the last one is below..

Revelation 10:

7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

 

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8 minutes ago, Adstar said:

Yes these verses support a rapture...  But they do not give any timing.. And they do not say it will be pre-trib..

The only timing given in the Bible about the rapture is that it will happen at the last trump..

1 Corinthians 15: KJV

50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

 

The book of Revelations reveal that there will be 7 trumpets and the last one is below..

Revelation 10:

7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

 

Hi Adstar   :) what people believe about the pre-rapture is not really a matter of salvation but it's still good to discuss but I do respect people who believe different,

Revelation 3:10

10 ‘Because you have kept the word of My 1perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

1 Thessalonians 1:10

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 5:9 

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Ephesians 5:6 

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Colossians 3:4 

4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, angels4u said:

Hi Adstar   :) what people believe about the pre-rapture is not really a matter of salvation but it's still good to discuss but I do respect people who believe different,

I totally agree with you angels4U :D

Quote

 

Revelation 3:10

10 ‘Because you have kept the word of My 1perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

 

I believe this verse was given to the church of Philadelphia in the first century.. So indeed Jesus kept them from the hour of testing.. Also it is not clear what the hour of testing signifies..

Quote

 

1 Thessalonians 1:10

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

 

I agree with this verse Angels4U.. God will keep all of us from suffering any of His wrath .. But we are called upon to endure tribulation which comes from satan and his servants on earth as Jesus told us..

John 16: KJV

33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

God is well able to protect His people when He carries out His wrath upon the servants of satan::

Psalms 91: KJV

7 "A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. {8} Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. {9} Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; {10} There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. {11} For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. {12} They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone."

 

Quote

 

Colossians 3:4 

4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

 

Yes indeed, and I believe He shall be Revealed on the Day of His second coming..  On that day Christians who are alive and remain will be caught up into the clouds to meet him in the air and they shall be transformed in a twinkling of an eye into our glorious eternal form nd we shall be coming right back down to earth to rule the nations of the earth with Jesus for 1000 years.. 

1 Corinthians 15: KJV

{52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

 

Edited by Adstar
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10 minutes ago, Adstar said:

I totally agree with you angels4U :D

I believe this verse was given to the church of Philadelphia in the first century.. So indeed Jesus kept them from the hour of testing.. Also it is not clear what the hour of testing signifies..

I agree with this verse Angels4U.. God will keep all of us from suffering any of His wrath .. But we are called upon to endure tribulation which comes from satan and his servants on earth as Jesus told us..

John 16: KJV

33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

God is well able to protect His people when He carries out His wrath upon the servants of satan::

Psalms 91: KJV

7 "A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. {8} Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. {9} Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; {10} There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. {11} For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. {12} They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone."

 

Yes indeed, and I believe He shall be Revealed on the Day of His second coming..  On that day Christians who are alive and remain will be caught up into the clouds to meet him in the air and they shall be transformed in a twinkling of an eye into our glorious eternal form nd we shall be coming right back down to earth to rule the nations of the earth with Jesus for 1000 years.. 

1 Corinthians 15: KJV

{52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

 

We see what will happen :)

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12 hours ago, angels4u said:

Hi Adstar   :) what people believe about the pre-rapture is not really a matter of salvation but it's still good to discuss but I do respect people who believe different,

Revelation 3:10

10 ‘Because you have kept the word of My 1perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

1 Thessalonians 1:10

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 5:9 

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Ephesians 5:6 

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Colossians 3:4 

4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

Amen.

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First Corinthians 15:51-58 and First Thessalonians 4:13-18 is specifically written for the pre-tribulation rapture

The 7 judgment trumpets of Revelation's unfolding are different and part of the Lord's period of wrath extending 7 years during the coming tribulation period

Those who attempt to make the Lord's trumpet calls for the rapture anything else are wrong  

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2018 at 9:42 PM, Sojourner414 said:
On 6/3/2018 at 9:34 AM, angels4u said:

Hi Adstar   :) what people believe about the pre-rapture is not really a matter of salvation but it's still good to discuss but I do respect people who believe different,

Revelation 3:10

10 ‘Because you have kept the word of My 1perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

1 Thessalonians 1:10

10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 5:9 

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Ephesians 5:6 

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Colossians 3:4 

4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

Amen.

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Lets look at each of these verses which you mistakenly believe provide support for a pre-trib rapture of the church.

Revelation 3:10

If you identify who is being tested in the hour of temptation you will see that it must be the period of God's wrath focused upon the earth dwellers. This is the day of the Lord not the great tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 1:10

We are waiting for our gathering unto Him which comes between the great tribulation (wrath of Satan) and the day of the Lord (the wrath of God).

1 Thessalonians 5:9

The wrath that we are not appointed unto is that which comes suddenly on the day of the Lord. This is seen in context in verses 2 and 3.

Romans 5:9 

The wrath here is that which is experienced by those who reject Christ, it involves eternal conscious torment.

Ephesians 5:6 

The wrath of God upon unbelievers.

Colossians 3:4 

At Christ's appearing we will appear with Him. We sure will, that's when we are gathered to Him by the angels.

Have you ever considered that pretribulationism is the only eschatological model that has believers experiencing the wrath of God. (Even the post-tribbers believe that God keeps the believer through or in His wrath). Yes I know that you consider these believers "tribulation saints" and since you don't consider yourself part of them therefore it's OK with you that those saints suffer the wrath of God.

That is so inconsistent with how God has dealt with His own. Noah was safe in the ark before God's judgement fell upon the earth dwellers in his day. Even Lot was taken out of Sodom before the fire and brimstone destroyed the cities of the plane. On the other hand the Lord did nothing to intervene when Nero was feeding our brethren to the lions and using them to light his gardens. The Lord also did not intervene to prevent the martyrdom of millions of believers over the past hundred years. The Scriptures are very clear, He removes His own before His wrath is poured out, but He allows us the honor of suffering persecution for His name sake so that we may be glorified with Him.

Hallelujah

Edited by Steve Conley
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Posted (edited)

"the Lord did nothing to intervene when Nero was feeding our brethren to the lions and using them to light his gardens. The Lord also did not intervene to prevent the martyrdom of millions of believers over the past hundred years. The Scriptures are very clear, He removes His own before His wrath is poured out, but He allows us the honor of suffering persecution for His name sake so that we may be glorified with Him"

 

This is true and has been the case over the last 2000 + years

But when the Lord's wrath and judgment comes it will be His own motivation upon an unbelieving world

This judgment will last for 7 years .... the 70th week decreed

His focus will be upon Israel and the rest of the earth during the judgment period and the 144000 of Israel will be the first mortals to be protected as they spread the gospel of His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth  

At the same time a multitude of Gentiles will already be made immortal and these will come to the earth with the Lord to destroy the beast and his followers at the end of the 70th week

 

 

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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