Interesting Reader Question Posed: Absent from the Body...

[George]

Shalom everyone,

This was a question that I received in our ministry inbox and quite thought provoking.   Let me know what you think. 

Quote

From your statement of faith:
"We believe that immediately upon death, the soul of the believer is absent from the body, and present with the Lord."

I am just wondering how you square that with Tabitha in the book of Acts being raised from the dead by Peter.   (On your reading of the Scriptures, I cannot see but that such an action by Peter would be incredibly cruel, calling her from being present with the Lord back to this sinful world!)

Thanks for any insight you may have about this.

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

[Adstar]

It was Gods will for Tabitha to serve Him on earth for some time more..

The questioner should consider the possibility that God caused Tabitha to experience death so as to use her raising from the dead to serve as support to Peters ministry..

So both Tabitha's raising from the dead served the will of God and Tabitha's time on earth after her being raised would serve Gods purpose..

In the end it's Gods will that we all should serve.. One way or the other..

 

[Not me]

This is going to be pretty “out there” but I have read about people, that say they have had near death experience(s),  and some report being given a choice as to return or not. Not saying this is the case here, but it’s a curiosity??

much love in Christ, Not me  

[bryan]

Another belief I've heard is that the dead are 'asleep' until Jesus comes back and judgement happens.  To the dead, no time appears to pass until  judgement and they're then in Heaven.  To people still on earth, the dead are 'asleep', so being raised causes no conflict.

[Heb 13:8]

Blessings. The Hebrew/Greek translation for spirit is actually "wind and breath". 

So according to souls being alive in heaven without bodies, people are living in heaven right now as wind and breath. That is false. If only people would take the time to study...

I do believe Paul is using figurative language for the first resurrection (mortality/immortality) in 2 Cor 5:8. He is saying he would rather skip the naked grave part and go straight to first resurrection. It's helpful to read chapters in full to understand the context.

Job 1:21 and said: “Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised.”

Ecc 5:15 Everyone comes naked from their mother's womb, and as everyone comes, so they depart. They take nothing from their toil that they can carry in their hands.

1 Cor 15:50-54 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come

God bless

[Not me]

30 minutes ago, Butero said:

I don't know how I feel about near death experiences, but I do believe that a person can die physically, and even be in the presence of God, but if he has a purpose in you returning to earth for a time as a witness to his power, like in the case of being raised from the dead, that isn't cruel.  Our lifespan here isn't that long to begin with in light of eternity.  She would be able to glorify God through her life in a way few can.  Her story is part of scripture, along with the testimony of what a Godly woman she was.  She also knew what she had to look forward to.  No fear of death for her.  

Haaaa, you are so right. There would be definitely no “fear of death for her” anymore.

I’m not dogmatic about NDE. Just thought I’d toss the thought out. I have heard/read probably close to 20 different accounts. Some believeable, some not so much. Again like you said our life span isn’t that long, so we will all know soon enough I imagine. I just want to be found doing His will, so I might get a abundant welcome. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

[Guest shiloh357]

Quote

From your statement of faith:
"We believe that immediately upon death, the soul of the believer is absent from the body, and present with the Lord."

I am just wondering how you square that with Tabitha in the book of Acts being raised from the dead by Peter.   (On your reading of the Scriptures, I cannot see but that such an action by Peter would be incredibly cruel, calling her from being present with the Lord back to this sinful world!)

Thanks for any insight you may have about this. 

There is nothing in the story in Acts 9 that would indicate that to raise Tabitha from the dead was cruel even if she had gone to Heaven.   The idea that it would be cruel is a value that you are assigning to the story that is not borne out in the text.  

For someone like Tabitha, serving the Lord either here or in Heaven would not be seen as cruelty, as she loved the people she ministered to.  

It is important to note that Paul was taken into the 3rd Heaven and saw some pretty amazing things, but did not see it as cruel that he had to continue here on earth to minister under some pretty harsh conditions.   For Paul it was his joy to either remain on earth or to be in Heaven.

[Heb 13:8]

6 hours ago, Butero said:

Jesus said he is the God of the living, not the dead.

That's right, and this is what Paul is referring to when he says we are changed from mortal to immortal, clothed and not naked. He is referring to first resurrection.

Quote

Only the body sleeps in the ground.

No, our spirits (breath) returns to God who gave it.. "breath" cannot exist without a body Butero. God needed all three elements (body, spirit, soul) to create a human being, not just one.

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Eccl 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Ezekiel 37:5 This is what the Lord GOD says to these bones: I will cause breath to enter you, and you will live.

Jhn 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.

ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Short Definition: spirit

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.

God bless

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, Butero said:

The question of the difference between soul and spirit has been going on as long as I can remember, but there is one thing I am certain of, based on scripture.  The real you does not sleep in the ground.  The body does, but the intellect does not.  The rich man and Lazarus is never said to be a parable, and one was living in paradise and one in hell.  Moses appeared with Elijah and met with Jesus.  Moses was dead, and his body was sleeping in the ground, not his soul.  To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  

Well, using parables and visions to disprove soul sleep is not the best way to approach this.

"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" is referring to mortality and immortality and being naked in the grave. You are choosing laziness and tradition over Hebrew/Greek. Where is the growth in that?

Not many are willing to go in depth and study this topic and find the truth on their own. They choose laziness and tradition over the truth, and if that's what you desire then so be it. 

Butero, our spirit is literally "breath" breathed into us by God, and our soul is the result of God's breath. In order for us to have a soul, God needed a BODY to breathe into. "The real you" includes your spirit and soul, and this is where your intellect comes from.

God however needed a BODY to give you life Butero. The spirit and soul cannot exist and live without a BODY. The BODY is simply a part of God's plan to create human beings. The confusion comes in when you separate spirit and soul from BODY.

"A living being" with intellect has a BODY.

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

God bless.

[Alex2165]

 

Shalom George.

 

You stated that the soul of believer returns to the Lord, this is true, but not only of believer but of every man and woman on Earth, because our soul is the property of the Lord and all souls belong only to GOD, very much like everything else on this Earth.

 

Ecclesiastes 12. 7

7.*and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath (breath of life, spirit, soul, of human being) returns to GOD Who gave it.

 

 

Ezekiel 18.4

4."Know that all lives are Mine, the life of the parent as well as the life of the child is Mine..."

 

In reply to the second part of your post I would like to point out that some people used very judgmental, inappropriate and badly chosen words concerning some statement and passages of the Bible without understanding them fully.

 

Does be prophet Elisha also was very cruel when he resurrected from the dead the child of Shunammite woman? 2Kings 4.32-37.

 

Or may be Jesus Christ also was very cruel when He resurrected from the dead so many people? Or may Apostles of Christ also were cruel when they resurrected many dead?

 

Matthew 10.8

Commandments of Jesus to His disciples.

8."Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. You received without payment, give without payment."

 

Elisha, Jesus Christ, and Peter, and many others showed to us the power of the Lord over the physical death, in order that people would believe in the power of their GOD, and many did, and it change the life of many people for the better and turned them to their GOD, and only GOD.

 

And even during crucifixion of Jesus the graves were open and the dead were came and prophesied in Jerusalem! Do you know how many people saw it and became permanent and dedicated believers in Christ?

 

If GOD chose such way to convince people of His power over the death, who then have the right to criticize the Lord and call such action as cruel?

 

Above all, will be even bigger resurrection of the dead in the future on the universal scale.

 

Isaiah 26.19

19.Your dead shall live, their corpses shall rise (Ezekiel 37.1-14). O dwellers in the dust (Genesis 3.19) (Psalm 103.14) (Ecclesiast 3.20, 12.7), awake and sing for joy! Your dew is a radiant dew, and the Earth will give birth to those long dead (Ezekiel 37.1-14) (Daniel 12.2) (Hosea 13.14) (Ephesians 5.14). (NRSV)

19.Your dead will live, their corpses will rise (Ezekiel 37.1-14), you who lie in the dust (Genesis 3.19) (Psalm 103.14) (Ecclesiast 3.20, 12.7) awake and shout for joy, your dew is as the dew of the dawn, and the Earth will give birth to the departed spirits (Ezekiel 37.1-14) (Daniel 12.2) (Hosea 13.14) (Ephesians 5.14). (KSB

 

Ezekiel 37.12-13

12.Therefore, prophesy and say to them. 'Thus says the Lord GOD. I am going to open your graves and bring you up from your graves. O My people (see "People of GOD"), and I will bring you back to the land of Israel.

13.And you shall know that I am the Lord when I open your graves and bring you up from graves, O My people.

 

Daniel 12.2

2.Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to Everlasting Life and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

John 5.21.25.28-29

21."Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomever He wishes.

25.Very truly I tell you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of GOD, and those who hear will live.

28.Do not be astonished at this, the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice,

29.and will come out those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of condemnation.”

 

Notice that the end of the passage in Daniel 12.1 is identical to the end of the passage in John 5.29.

 

There are many other similar statements indicating that resurrection will occur on the global scale. It is also support the fact that we from the very beginning have being created as immortal human beings in physical flesh, but lose our immortality due to disobedience to GOD.

 

This means that the history of human kind must make its complete circle and we have to receive our immortality back, according to the passages above.

 

In general, Bible depicts only two types of resurrections, one resurrection is temporary and a person would die again, the second resurrection is permanent and leading to eternal life in soul and in flesh.

 

So I hope I square out for you the point of the resurrection and answered your question.

 

Alex.