Interesting Reader Question Posed: Absent from the Body...

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, Alex2165 said:

This means that the history of human kind must make its complete circle and we have to receive our immortality back, according to the passages above. 

And we receive our immortality back in 1 Thess 4:14-17.

In your post you are confusing Jesus miracles of bringing people back from the dead so as to walk the earth again vs where they go after they permanently die. These are two different topics in where you're trying to mix the two to prove soul sleep is false.

Hollywood films has people living their lives in heaven and hell after they die, but if Hollywood had studied the Hebrew and Greek translation for spirit they would know that our spirit is translated "breath and wind".

So according to Hollywood, people are living their lives as breath and wind without bodies which is insane. The only thing that tradition has done has conditioned minds, and they use tv and movies to fulfill their agenda.

In reality what they're watching is either fallen angels, silly props or fictional characters just to make a buck..

https://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Patrick-Swayze/dp/B000N5F6PG/ref=sr_1_2?s=instant-video&ie=UTF8&qid=1528170122&sr=1-2&keywords=Ghost

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_14?url=search-alias%3Dinstant-video&field-keywords=found+footage+horror+films&sprefix=found+footage+%2Caps%2C145&crid=JPG4PQ3OPSSD

For example, between the time Lazarus died and rose from the dead was he sleeping (dead) in his grave, or was his spirit living and existing in heaven? "Sleep" is just a translation for "death". So Lazarus as a human being with a soul was sleeping in his grave.

1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.

koimaó from NG2749: sleep, fall asleep, die
Original Word: κοιμάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: koimaó from NG2749
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-mah'-o)
Short Definition: I fall asleep, am asleep
Definition: I fall asleep, am asleep, sometimes of the sleep of death.

God bless

[Neighbor]

On 6/3/2018 at 2:17 AM, George said:

Shalom everyone,

This was a question that I received in our ministry inbox and quite thought provoking.   Let me know what you think. 

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

As to the question, there seems to me to be a premise set forth  in it that  is simply not so. The premise that God's action needs squaring with  a person's desire that all be fair and to think it cruel  of Him to do what He may do if the person thinks it cruel or unfair.  Who is it that judges God?

 I sooner think  as Job indicated he thought when responding to his wife- ..." Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?”....

Does the creator answer to the created?

Plus; Do I really want what is fair from God? I sure hope I am not  that unwise as to demand what is fair, for I have been given unmerited mery and grace, full payment of the price of my own sins against God by the atonement paid in blood By God the Son. God has reconciled what is just with what is merciful. So nope, I sure don't want fair! I will be in irreversible eternal trouble to my doom if fair is to be the standard by which God acts.  

I will  bow before Jesus  in thanks that He is not fair, but instead is awesome in His sacrifice and His merciful duty to His Father. I want to be used in anyway my maker desires to use me.  Whatever way, whenever, but please no fairness, I could not survive what is fair, what I deserve.

 

[Joulre2abba]

On 6/3/2018 at 2:17 AM, George said:

Shalom everyone,

This was a question that I received in our ministry inbox and quite thought provoking.   Let me know what you think. 

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

Jesus Himself raised from the dead the father's daughter, and the grieving mother's son. It's important to remember that those resurrections were by the request of a family member. And, it should be noted that eventually they all died and went to heaven. As far as those resurrected and the rejoicing family members.. why object about that?

We all have to come back to the realized truth that God allowed that the request to occur. Therefore He more than anyone of us judged it to be acceptable. So, when it comes to an outside party having an objection that someone got resurrected.. The question arises: does the text indicate that the person who died was ready to die? Does it indicate that the resurrected person objected? No.

As one who's been to the funeral of my sister who died in childbirth, what family member would have objected if someone in our family had had the faith to get my sister raised up from the dead? Answer: We would all have rejoiced.

[Alex2165]

To Hebrews 13.8

 

First, you did not read my post carefully, in my post I already mentioned about two types of resurrections, one is temporary and the other is permanent, and there is a big difference between them.

 

Second, you talk exactly as the seven day Adventist do.  They truly believe that the word “sleep” that often used symbolically in tandem with the word “dead” or “death” in certain places of the Bible - literally means death.

 

I used to go to seven day Adventist church for a while, because they worship on Sabbath day, but I was appalled at their twisted and completely insane doctrines and traditions which go against not only the Bible principals and ideals, but even at elementary common sense and any logical reasoning.

 

I am no longer go to their church, but I tried hard to convince them that using word “sleep” in reference to “death” is a figure of speech, a metaphor, and no more than that. But they refused to understand this. Above all, they are also believed that soul does not exist, they believe that the physical body is the soul, and they also believe in some other completely delusion things like this.

 

Anyway, if you are a seven days Adventist, it would be pointless for me to talk to you on this issue, but I will try again to explain to all who believe in this nonsense that sleep and death completely different thing and cannot be mix together.

 

For example:

 

John 11.11-14

 11.After saying this He told them, “Our friend Lazarus had fallen asleep, but I am going there to awaken him.”

 

12.The disciples said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep he will be all right.”

 

13.Jesus however had been speaking about his death, but they though that He was referring merely to sleep.

 

14.Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus is DEAD.

 

How we can decipher this statement of Christ? At first Jesus said, “Lazarus had fallen asleep.” Such figure of speech often found in the Bible, and Jesus uses this metaphor and aphorism to indicate death and following resurrection in the last day, means that sooner or later Lazarus will be resurrected to everlasting life.

 

But His disciples took it literally and though that Lazarus indeed sleeping and will awake by himself, and so he is all right, and does not need to be waking up.

 

In verse 13 John himself pointed out that Jesus was talking about DEATH and future resurrection, and not about sleep. Because after sleep we wake up without any help of others, but no one wakes ups after death, unless GOD will make it so. Death is a permanent state and cannot be reversed like sleep.

 

But seven day Adventist insists that death does not exist, but we have only sleep.

 

In verse 14 then Jesus saw and realized  that they did not understand Him, only when He said to them in plain language that the Lazarus is dead, and only when they get it.

 

So it is absolutely obvious that the word “sleep” here is a metaphor and a figure of speech, but the word “DEAD” is a real word and means DEATH, and nothing else.

[Mike 2]

Below is a belief statement of immediate presence with the Lord. What is / are the biblical indicators of that belief?

That should be the place from which to start the discussion.

 

 

On 6/3/2018 at 2:17 AM, George said:

Shalom everyone,

This was a question that I received in our ministry inbox and quite thought provoking.   Let me know what you think. 

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

This was a question that I received in our ministry inbox and quite thought provoking.   Let me know what you think. 

  Quote

From your statement of faith:
"We believe that immediately upon death, the soul of the believer is absent from the body, and present with the Lord."

I am just wondering how you square that with Tabitha in the book of Acts being raised from the dead by Peter.   (On your reading of the Scriptures, I cannot see but that such an action by Peter would be incredibly cruel, calling her from being present with the Lord back to this sinful world!)

Thanks for any insight you may have about this.