ayin jade Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: Jade I was the first to respond to this thread. Note the Scriptures that were posted. Do have anything to say about what was posted in that response? I greatly appreciate you posting scripture in support of free will. I posted the thread so I could see the scripture for and even against it, rather than debate it myself. Im not in a place atm to debate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Butero said: Those scriptures prove free will is just an illusion. You can only come to God if the Father reveals his Son to you. Unless God chooses to do that, you will never be saved. The fact some do not come to the faith proves this isn't speaking of everyone ever born. But there is still free will in choosing God, after he reveals His Son to a person, correct? It seems that the answer lies between calvinism and arminianism, in that God only reveals His Son to a select few, but those still have the free will do say "no thanks"...which is why one can find verses to support both sides of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Running Gator said: But there is still free will in choosing God, after he reveals His Son to a person, correct? It seems that the answer lies between calvinism and arminianism, in that God only reveals His Son to a select few, but those still have the free will do say "no thanks"... When does God ever choose not to reveal Himself to everyone? Where in the Bible does state that He only reveals Himself to some? Quote which is why one can find verses to support both sides of the argument. There are no verses in the Bible that support either unconditional election or limited atonement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.69 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 37 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: When does God ever choose not to reveal Himself to everyone? Where in the Bible does state that He only reveals Himself to some? There are no verses in the Bible that support either unconditional election or limited atonement. And yet the debate on this topic has waged for centuries with neither side being able to put it to rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,187 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,350 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 Scripture says; Ephesians 1:5 (NASB) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, The fact that is says we were predestined “through or by” Jesus Christ means we were predestined not because of us, but because of something else, that something else being, we are in possession of the life of Jesus Christ. For it is the Life of Christ that is predestined to glory and honor, and whosoever that life is found in. That person is predestined by virtue of being in possession of Jesus Christ. For this is the “life” that was put before man, that he may choose or not choose. The life of Christ. Much love in Christ, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Not me said: Scripture says; Ephesians 1:5 (NASB) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, The fact that is says we were predestined “through or by” Jesus Christ means we were predestined not because of us, but because of something else, that something else being, we are in possession of the life of Jesus Christ. For it is the Life of Christ that is predestined to glory and honor, and whosoever that life is found in. That person is predestined by virtue of being in possession of Jesus Christ. Much love in Christ, Not me The point of that verse is not that we are predestined to salvation, but to adoption. Adoption is not salvation, but is the result of salvation. Predestination applies only to our sanctification, not our justification. Predestination is God's work in us, as is that for which we are predestined to become, namely conformed into the image of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,187 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,350 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: The point of that verse is not that we are predestined to salvation, but to adoption. Adoption is not salvation, but is the result of salvation. Predestination applies only to our sanctification, not our justification. Predestination is God's work in us, as is that for which we are predestined to become, namely conformed into the image of Christ. The point of the verse is explaining the “why” of predestination . It is because that person is in possession of that which has/was/is predestined. Which is the life of Christ. Much love in Christ, Not me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Not me said: The point of the verse is explaining the “why” of predestination . It is because that person is in possession of that which has/was/is predestined. Which is the life of Christ. Much love in Christ, Not me No, that isn't what the verse says. It doesn't say that we are predestined for the life of Christ. The life of Christ is gift we accept. It is based on an offer of God's grace. Predestination pertains to what we will become AFTER we receive the gift of eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,187 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,350 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No, that isn't what the verse says. It doesn't say that we are predestined for the life of Christ. The life of Christ is gift we accept. It is based on an offer of God's grace. Predestination pertains to what we will become AFTER we receive the gift of eternal life. Here’s the verse Ephesians 1:5 (NASB) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, “He predestined us through Jesus Christ”. It is because of Christ that a person is predestined. If a individual is in possession of Jesus, that person has Christ in them, and by virtue of being in possession of Jesus, that individual has all the glory and honor that the life of Christ is predestined to. Much love in Christ, Not me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Not me said: The verse says; Ephesians 1:5 (NASB) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, Sent via BLB app for Apple Here’s the verse Ephesians 1:5 (NASB) He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, “He predestined us through Jesus Christ”. It is because of Christ that a person is predestined. If a individual is in possession of Jesus, that person has Christ in them, and by virtue of being in possession of Jesus, that individual has all the glory and honor that the life of Christ is predestined to. Much love in Christ, Not me My question is, "do you believe that God predestines only some to salvation?" You seem to be dancing around the central issue and trying to sound spiritual but not really addressing the issue at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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