enoob57 Posted June 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,069 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,395 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted June 8, 2018 22 hours ago, Butero said: On 6/7/2018 at 8:14 AM, enoob57 said: That's just it- God said what he would do and He does not say I made him do … a vast distinction wouldn't you say? No, I do not see a vast distinction. This is why I say your reasoning is skewed and it is clear to this point why... because your god cannot make a being solely responsible for self and remain sovereign! 22 hours ago, Butero said: If I am shown something that will happen, all I have is foreknowledge, but if I create something and set it up to carry out a plan, that is scripting it. That's just it you ignore the initial creation events... it is a simple thing to see God held Adam and Eve responsible for their God given choice by His judgment of them! That fact that you hold God responsible for sin in the world and in fact said God scripted it 'so it would be so' violates God's Word 1 Peter 1:15-16 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." NKJV The very fact that you convolute God Own testimony of Self in flat out denial of His Holiness... 22 hours ago, Butero said: No, I am not making God a hypocrite. The very term can't be applied to God, anymore than I can call God a murderer for choosing to kill innocent people because of David's transgression over a census. Those rules don't apply to God. The Scripture clearly teaches the purpose of the law Ps 19:7-8 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. KJV Clearly God speaks of the unity of the law with His Own Being... which you state "Those rules don't apply to God." One only need ask is God perfect? Is God's testimony sure? Is God statutes right? Is God's commandment pure? Or do you suppose there is more than one perfect? More than one sure? More than one right? More than one pure? Because that is exactly what you are promoting... 22 hours ago, Butero said: That is nonsense. Until you understand that God can do whatever he wants, you will continue to promote error. His ways are not our ways. Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath. In other words, he could have chosen to violate a rule he placed on us had he desired to. He wrote the rules. He didn't violate the Sabbath laws, but he had the right to. So when you go around saying God can't create someone to do something evil to bring about his plans, like the anti-Christ for instance, that is because you are looking at it through human reasoning. "Until you understand that God can do whatever he wants," That why God gave us His Word so that we may know Him: His desires, His Persons, His Holiness, His Truth, His Path... Leviticus 11:44 44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Deuteronomy 32:4 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. Job 34:10 10 Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. Psalms 92:15 15 To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him. Not only do you have God in violation of His Own Witness of Himself in these verses but are teaching others God can and will sin as He pleases for He is above it all... then you provide the Scripture of God's ways being higher than man's ways so that gives you license to pervert the very precepts He has given us to know Him by... you are promoting of this in the last of days Prov 17:13 13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. KJV Isa 5:20 20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! KJV For even the creation of God rebukes your convoluted state of address James 3:12 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. KJV 22 hours ago, Butero said: God said adulterers and murderers were to be put to death, yet he pardoned King David, and even allowed Bathsheba to live. David's innocent baby died because of his sins, and the son of Bathsheba became David's successor. God doesn't follow the rules he gives to us, and he is not a hypocrite. Those laws are for man, not him. Even the angels are under different rules than we are. They are not under the same New Testament covenant as man, so why should we expect God is? You simply do not understand that it is in Christ that God in His holiness can afford grace unto anyone or else Adam, Eve, satan, and fallen angels would be in hell and this conversation would not be occuring… God clearly shows His Heart in this in the slaying of the animal to cover their sin... your inability to build an acceptable theology of precept upon precept and line upon line is noted from Genesis thru Revelation... and as Shiloh has said to you the gospel according to Butero we reject... to ignore the truth is to write this below... 22 hours ago, Butero said: There are no scriptures that you posted or anyone else posted that proves free will. There is nothing you posted or anyone else posted that proves God did not script people to do bad things to bring about his ultimate purpose. Your arguments are all emotion based. You just know that God won't do this or won't do that, and in other instances, you claim God can't do this or can't do that. That is ludicrous. 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Willa Posted June 8, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2018 Jhn 15:16 NKJV “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU means exactly that. He chose us for the purpose of bearing fruit. I don't believe this is purely directed to the apostles. But it is apparent that they also thought they had chosen to follow Jesus. I believe that God draws us by His Spirit to believe in Him. But it is possible to resist His Spirit as others have said referring to stiff necked Jews. The fact remains that He does not desire that any should perish but that all should come to knowledge of the truth and many other scriptures reveal Gods will that all be saved. So most of us can look back and recognize how God had wooed us and called us to receive Him. He first chose us according to His foreknowledge. But not all will receive Him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted July 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) The case for free will: “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.” (Revelation 3:20) “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” (John 3:18) “Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him." But the people said nothing.” (1 Kings 18:21) “But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” (Joshua 25:15) Edited July 22, 2018 by Fidei Defensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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