Revelation and the Study of Woe

[Revelation Man]

32 minutes ago, Brother Duke said:

As key identifiers to tie two or more areas of scripture together.

Well I pretty much have most everything down pat. The 2nd We must happen 75 days before the 3rd Woe Ends. The whole key to the timeline for Revelation lies in Daniel 12 in the 1260, 1290 and 1335. 

Day 1...................................................Day 1185 = the 1335 [days until the Second Coming] is the Two Witnesses showing up and turning Israel back unto God 1335 days before the Second Coming..............Day 1230 is 1290 Days until the Second Coming or the 1290 of Daniel, this is when the Abomination of Desolation is set up, 30 Days before Jesus Opens the First Seal where the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem at the 1260........1260 Midway point. 

The Two Witnesses show up 75 Days before the Beast comes to power. They both are in their OFFICES for 1260 Days. The Beast dies at the 7th Vial, thus if the Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the Beast comes to power, they must die 75 Days before he dies, so that means the 2nd Woe ends 75 Days before the 3rd Woe ends. 

That is the way is understand the Timelines. 

[Steve Conley]

On 6/10/2018 at 7:54 AM, Revelation Man said:

Because revenge will not be meeted out until all the earth is brought under Jesus Christs domain, and all the Wicked Tares have bee killed and bound into the grave to be judged in 1000 years. So as long as those that killed the Martyrs are still alive they can not fully receive revenge can they? So them waiting for vengeance or being told they MUST WAIT only proves my point, the Wrath of God lasts for the full 3.5 years, it is the Day of the Lord. Those Saints with White Robes on in Rev. 7:9 are the Raptured Church, these Saints under the Alter in Seal #5 here have to WAIT until Jesus Returns. 

Rev. 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

This is quite easy to understand. They want vengeance on those who killed them, that will happen via the Seals, Trumpets and Vials of Gods Wrath and not until the 7th Vial is this complete. They are told they must wait until the others have been killed also, meaning they have to wait until Jesus' return because the Beast kills and maims for 42 months, we are even told if Jesus did not come back when he did no flesh would be saved. 

Also, we are told the Seals are Gods/Lambs Wrath.........HERE: Rev. 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

God always has perfect Symmetry, He doesn't start things in the middle, all of the Seals are Gods Wrath, the Day of the Lord starts with the First Seal being opened, thus Elijah has to show up to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord. Why do the Jews Flee Judea when they see the Abomination of Desolation? They did not flee the last time they saw an Abomination via Antiochus Epiphanes did they? No, they had the Maccabean Revolt and fought, so why do 1/3 of the Jews Flee Judea and go to Petra? Because they have already REPENTED and heeded Jesus' words via Matthew 24:15-17 !! Elijah is sent back BEFORE the Day of the Lord begins at the 1260 Event when Israel/Holy peoples are Conquered. We know this via the scriptures, AS SHOWN BELOW: 

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Just like 2 Thessalonians 2 says, the Church will DEPART, then the Anti-Christ will be REVEALED/UNCOVERED and allowed to come forth, the Holy Spirit will stop BLOCKING his path when Jesus opens the First Seal, then the Day of the Lord that the Thessalonians were FEARFUL of will be upon the world.

1. Church Departs

2. Anti-Christ comes forth

3. The Day of the Lord or Gods Wrath Begins because he comes forth. Gods Wrath on Mankind includes allowing mankind to have the Governance their heart desires, not God's Governance, but a Man influenced by Satan himself. God gives them their hearts desire. 

This is how misnomers and misunderstandings get started, you say that Peter and Joel say that the sun, moon and stars must go dark BEFORE the Day of the Lord and neither one actually say that do they brother, although the Joel English translation implies that, it an improper translation . They both use those descriptors to describe the Day of the Lord amongst many other things, they are thus describing a 3.5 year period of time known as the Day of the Lord or Gods Wrath and all the entails. 

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter has the basics right, but the Heavens and Earth will not pass away on the Day of the Lord unless its a 1000 year period and the reign of Christ is included. He describes the Earth BURNING (Trumpets #1) and then he speaks about the New Heaven and earth that will eventually come down. So nowhere does Peter say that via anything I can find. As Per Joel, of course the English translation has once again confused the masses. BEFORE means in the Presence of, LOOK IT UP !! I have studied this in depth.  Joel is describing the Day of the Lord in depth.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Using my Hebrew Masoretic Bible Transliteration I can study the root words.

 2:31 The sun 8121 shall be turned 2015 z8735 into darkness, 2822 and the moon 3394 into blood, 1818 before 6440 the great 1419 and the terrible 3372 z8737 day 3117 ofYähwè יָהוֶה 3068 come. 935 z8800

#6440 פָּנִים paniym {paw-neem'} pl. (but always as sing.) of an unused noun פָּנֶה paneh {paw-neh'} from H6437; TWOT - 1782a; n m

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) face 1a) face, faces

1b) presence, person

1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim)

1d) face (of animals)

1e) face, surface (of ground)

1f) as adv of loc/temp

1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before

1g) with prep

1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

Plural (but always used as a singular) of an unused noun (פָּנֶה paneh, {paw-neh'}; from H6437); the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.):

NOW REREAD THE VERSE !! 

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before[IN THE PRESENCE OF] the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Hebrew was a limited Language, they had 4000 words in Moses time all the way up to 7500 words later on, compared to the 500,000 English words we have today, so the same words were used in different ways, thus the CONTEXT was very important and gad to be understood. Like the word used for Day in Genesis chapter 1, the Hebrew word YOWN has about 50 meanings, a PERIOD OF TIME is one meaning, the original meaning is TO BE HOT, thus it never means ONE DAY in Genesis chapter 1, the First Day (period of time) was 9.2 Billion years etc. etc. etc. LIKEWISE we have to understand the context here also, the Hebrew word PANEH is used in different ways for different things the Context has to be understood thus we see how its used via looking at the times its used in the bible, the three most used instances are these HERE: AV - before 1137, face 390, presence 76. 

So when we are in the PRESENCE of the Day of the Lord the Sun, Moon and Stars will it give her light. Does that make sense? It does to me.

Call me me Master Ron, I like that. ?

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Babel Man, if you would have looked at Peter's quotation of Joel's prophecy as recorded in the Greek language you would have saved yourself the embarrassment of attempting to deceive the readers of these comments and being caught at it. I don't know you, so I can't say anything about your motives, you may have the best of intentions, nevertheless what you have just taught is false and deceptive.

Peter, on the day of Pentecost, quotes Joel in answer to the questions concerning what was happening. This quotation gives us a divine interpretation of the Hebrew word translated "before".

Act 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

It is the Greek word "prin" which is translated "before" in verse 20. "Prin" always means "prior to", never does it mean "in the face of." Therefore, Joel 2:31 says that prior to the day of the Lord there will be an identifiable cosmic sign.

Hallelujah

[Diaste]

20 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The Lord will come as a thief to take believers [both the dead and the living] .... only those who go will have this experience

No other human will see this happen, but will know that the living believers are gone .... in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye

This is evident by [1st Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

He will then immediately bring His wrath and judgment upon an unbelieving world of humans [Revelation 6:12-17]

 

Believe this Diaste and Duke .... your interpretations are both wrong

The Lord's coming at the end of the tribulation period is an entirely different matter .... and so is Duke's idea about the 144000 who are all Israelites 

1 Thess 5

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

How is this MY interpretation when Paul spoke these words?

Is it possible you are so used to your own personal interpretations of scripture you just assume everyone else must be personally interpreting as well?

So then the day of the Lord WILL NOT come as a thief to those in the light of His love and Spirit.

The day of the Lord WILL COME as a thief to those in darkness. 

To all those who believe the day of the Lord will come as a thief; you are in darkness.

It almost sounds as if you are one of the ones that say, "Peace and safety;"

"then sudden destruction cometh upon them"

Which thing will occur upon entering the time of the end, destruction will be all around you and,

"they shall not escape."

No early escape from the end of the age. No pretrib 'rapture'.

Edited June 13, 2018 by George
Removed Personal Comment -- Discuss the Topic at hand -- Don't make it personal. :)

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The Saints in white are the pre-tribulation church .... no doubt [Revelation 19:14]

The saints in white are the translated believers, agree. The pretrib part is assumption. No proof exists beyond less than clever rhetoric of an early gathering.

There is only one gathering of the elect described in scripture:

It's after the rebellion.

It's after the beast is revealed in the Temple.

It's after great tribulation.

It's at the day of the Lord.

It's before the wrath of God and the Lamb begins.

It's very sad you will have to witness this with your physical senses before you understand.

[Justin Adams]

Suggestions:

1) the 70th week is long ago done and dusted

2) there is no pre-trib as per the 15th century Jesuit and later Darby and Scofield

3) The Revelations are NOT supposed to be taken in a linear fashion

4) Yahweh does NOT require another temple. Yeshua said WE are the temple...

5) Matthew 24 gives us all we really need - why complicate it all with complex 'wisdom'?

6) there is no 7-year anything...

7) the BEAST is a system... not necessarily a 'person'

? HaSatan laughs at the prophesy racks of your local 'Christian' bookstore... (as the takings are banked)

P.s. Run from anyone that says they have it all figured out.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Justin Adams

[Revelation Man]

9 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Babel Man, if you would have looked at Peter's quotation of Joel's prophecy as recorded in the Greek language you would have saved yourself the embarrassment of attempting to deceive the readers of these comments and being caught at it. I don't know you, so I can't say anything about your motives, you may have the best of intentions, nevertheless what you have just taught is false and deceptive.

Peter, on the day of Pentecost, quotes Joel in answer to the questions concerning what was happening. This quotation gives us a divine interpretation of the Hebrew word translated "before".

Act 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

It is the Greek word "prin" which is translated "before" in verse 20. "Prin" always means "prior to", never does it mean "in the face of." Therefore, Joel 2:31 says that prior to the day of the Lord there will be an identifiable cosmic sign.

Hallelujah

Its irrelevant what Peter used Steve Clowny Man, he was quoting Joel. Let that SINK IN.

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

1 Thess 5

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

How is this MY interpretation when Paul spoke these words?

Is it possible you are so used to your own personal interpretations of scripture you just assume everyone else must be personally interpreting as well?

So then the day of the Lord WILL NOT come as a thief to those in the light of His love and Spirit.

The day of the Lord WILL COME as a thief to those in darkness. 

To all those who believe the day of the Lord will come as a thief; you are in darkness.

It almost sounds as if you are one of the ones that say, "Peace and safety;"

"then sudden destruction cometh upon them"

Which thing will occur upon entering the time of the end, destruction will be all around you and,

"they shall not escape."

No early escape from the end of the age. No pretrib 'rapture'.

Everyone who MISSES the Raptures WILL go through the Day of the Lord (unless they suffer a natural death before it hits in 3.5 years). Thus if you miss the Rapture the Day of the Lord will be upon you, you will have no choice, only the Jews who Repent will be spared this catastrophic event by fleeing unto Petra. Thus those of the LIGHT are spared Gods Wrath, those of the Dark are sleeping and thus unawares of what is about to hit them, just like those people who laughed at Noah when he sealed himself up in the Ark. REMEMBER: The Rains came before the Floods, THEN CAME THE FLOOD. 

The Rapture will come and these people will be like those in Noah's Days, they will think nothing of the 1 Billion or more Christian people who die. Then all of the Sudden BOOM, the Day of the Lord will overtake the, while hey are says PEACE IS UPON US....The Anti-Christ will come forth and Says, WORSHIP ME OR DIE !!

The problem most people have is thy don't understand how the Bible works, its Vague in ways else it would be more akin to a 5000 page History of the World Edition III etc. etc. You just have to understand that when God is speaking to us in generalities we have to figure out the meanings, well of course, First  Thess. 5 is about the Rapture of those in the Light and about sudden Destruction coming on those in the Dark. Thus those of us in the Light understand we will be saved (Raptured) because WE SEE (Jesus as the Messiah) those in the Dark will have SUDDEN DESTRUCTION come upon them because they are IN THE DARK, most will still be in the Dark 3.5 years later but many reading think it means RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT, it doesn't nor does it have to, read the Scriptures, we know the Day of the Lord comes 3.5 years after the Rapture, the FLOOD did not happen as soon as Moses closed up the Ark, nor as soon as it started raining, AMEN, likewise, the Rapture comes.............then 3.5 years later when they say PEACE & SAFETY, then comes Sudden Destruction.

So its a DELAYED DESTRUCTION. 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Suggestions:

1) the 70th week is long ago done and dusted

2) there is no pre-trib as per the 15th century Jesuit and later Darby and Scofield

3) The Revelations are NOT supposed to be taken in a linear fashion

4) Yahweh does NOT require another temple. Yeshua said WE are the temple...

5) Matthew 24 gives us all we really need - why complicate it all with complex 'wisdom'?

6) there is no 7-year anything...

7) the BEAST is a system... not necessarily a 'person'

? HaSatan laughs at the prophesy racks of your local 'Christian' bookstore... (as the takings are banked)

P.s. Run from anyone that says they have it all figured out.

1.) WRONG

2.) WRONG

3.) Correct

4.) Its coming , that is a Prophetic fact, your opinion can't change the Prophetic uttering's of Jesus, Peter and Paul.

5.) Matt, 24 1-6 happened from Jesus to 70 AD. Matt. 24:7-14 is the 2000 year Church Age. Matt. 24:15-31 is the Tribulation. Matt. 24:36-51 is the Rapture

6.) WRONG

7.) Wrong, Rev. 20:10 and Daniel 7:11 tells us different.

With all your Wrongs you need a Reboot Brother. 

[Brother Duke]

48 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Its irrelevant what Peter used Steve Clowny Man, he was quoting Joel. Let that SINK IN.

It actually does help.  We can use the OT quotes to aid with Greek translations of the same passages.  Also Peter was indwelled with the Holy Spirit so it was the Holy Spirit guiding Peter.

[Brother Duke]

15 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

The Rapture will come and these people will be like those in Noah's Days, they will think nothing of the 1 Billion or more Christian people who die. Then all of the Sudden BOOM, the Day of the Lord will overtake the, while hey are says PEACE IS UPON US....The Anti-Christ will come forth and Says, WORSHIP ME OR DIE !!

The Days of Noah were only missed for the unsaved.  The saved were on an Ark but still on the earth.