Revelation and the Study of Woe

[Revelation Man]

6 minutes ago, Brother Duke said:

It actually does help.  We can use the OT quotes to aid with Greek translations of the same passages.  Also Peter was indwelled with the Holy Spirit so it was the Holy Spirit guiding Peter.

What I am saying is we know via Joel what it MEANS..........In the Presence of the Day of the Lord the Sun, Moon and Stars will go dark. Nothing anyone says in the New Testament can change the Prophecy. 

 

6 minutes ago, Brother Duke said:

The Days of Noah were only missed for the unsaved.  The saved were on an Ark but still on the earth.

And those in the Light will be RAPTURED to Safety, those in the Dark will have SUDDEN DESTRUCTION coming upon them.

[Heleadethme]

19 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

I agree with this.  I think the 144K, the Two Witnesses and the Woman of Rev 12 are all the same group.  I still think they are the bride though.    That is our Pretrib vs. PostTrib differences.

You might find these things interesting brother.....how there has been an exodus taking place from the worldly church for quite a few years now, at least 20 years to my knowledge.....how the Lord has led His sheep "out of Babylon" aka Egypt and Sodom, to look after them Himself in the wilderness.  Interesting that the bible says God carried the children of Israel on the wings of an eagle as well, when they left Egypt to go into the wilderness.  The devil tried to devour us with his river of deception (the "renewal" false prophetic movement that began around the late 90's - they called it the river of God) but was not able to succeed with those who God kept for Himself, and now the devil has gone to make war against the rest of the woman's children....that war is in the form of deepening deception/delusion, which has been happening for quite a long time now.  It is God's judgment on those who love not the truth, they are being taken captive by "Babylon" instead of escaping.  So I believe that prophetic parable of the woman and her offspring in Rev. 12 is current for our time.

Regarding those two witnesses.  The Lord requires two or three witnesses to establish the truth about a thing.  We as the church are called witnesses/martyrs.  We know from Rev 2/3 that the churches are candlesticks.  The church is made up of a double witness, so to speak....since the one new man of the church is made up of both Jew and Gentile.  That way the Lord fulfills His own rule about needing two witnesses...establishing the truth of the gospel, and of establishing the guilt of the enemies of God.   IF Israel has turned to the Lord by that time, it might possibly even mean the witness of both the church and Israel per se. (I'm not sure of the timing.)  But see how what happens with the two witnesses is the exact pattern of how it will be for the whole church in the end.....witnessing (gospel preached in all the world and then the end will come)....persecution, martyrdom, then resurrection and rapture.

Finally regarding the 144,000.   New Jerusalem is four-square.  The dimensions of its foundations and walls in Rev 21 are 12 x 12, which equals 144.  The 144000 has to be a picture of New Jerusalem, because they come with the Lord when He returns on the Mount of Olives.  Measured and numbered means tested and tried.  This agrees with New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven as a Bride.  12 is also a reference to the 12 apostles which form the foundation of the church/bride....they will lead and judge the 12 tribes(of New Jerusalem, the Israel of God in the millennium.  (The apostles followed the Lamb wherever He went....it could also be a cryptic reference to last days apostles the Lord will raise up to restored the fallen tabernacle of the church/temple...though I await confirmation of that possibility.)

Anyway see if that rings some bells and helps fill in some gaps, and thanks be to the Lord for His light.  Bless you.

Forgot to mention, that the third witness of the "two or three" is the Holy Spirit....where it says "power will be given to the two witnesses."

Edited June 13, 2018 by Heleadethme

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, eileenhat said:

Bar code system.  You can not do any business without it.  Beast out of the sea (ie. UN/NWO) dominates all businesses this way.

We've forgotten what it was like pre cabal take over.  You once tilled the land, produced food, traded with neighbors etc. for eons.  Now you have to get licenses.  Place a mark on your product that a computer then reads and that intel is stored in UN/NWO/NSA etc. computers forever.  They know every little thing you buy or sell, forever.  If they say you can't sell, that is it.  All over.  You are out of business.   You can't just take your product to market then.  You have to pay taxes, meet requirements they set etc.  Their (Beast out of the Sea/UN) only goal is to force everyone to do and take what they say....to kill us all.

We could not see their (UN) involvement until Qanon began posting their takedown late last year.  Sealed indictments, European leaders going nuts over loss of Iran cash deal etc.  All apparently weird stuff according to MSM, but Qanon is privately stating cabal takedown in action involving SIS, Five Eyes, Saudi's, Rothschilds, Soros etc.  

The UN is rarely mentioned by that source.  Qanon typically posts who specifically they are taking down next/are involved.  It has been Trump who has been undermining UN by threatening to remove its funding** etc.  According to unverified reports, UN workers are not seen as 'helpful' people in the countries, for example, they are in but are seen as sex traffickers*.  Just stating what been reading.  More to come out, for sure.

*https://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/04/13/united-nations-peacekeepers-caught-running-a-child-sex-ring-2000-cases-of-sexual-abuse-reported/

**http://www.newsweek.com/united-nations-donald-trump-nikki-haley-jerusalem-funding-758849

So do you have the mark of the beast on your forehead or hand. For those are the only ones who can buy or sell.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Steve Conley]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

What I am saying is we know via Joel what it MEANS..........In the Presence of the Day of the Lord the Sun, Moon and Stars will go dark. Nothing anyone says in the New Testament can change the Prophecy. 

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Babel Man, what you are saying is that your interpretation of "before" is correct and that Peter's, Holy Spirit moved, quotation of it was in error, or that Luke's, Holy Spirit moved, recording of Peter's words was in error. So you are placing your interpretation above that of God, the Holy Spirit. Let God be true and every (Babel) man a liar.

I think I dealt with your false teaching before (prior to today) on another web sight. Notice, I clarified the word "before" for you, because I know you have a hard time with it.

It is amazing the lengths of Scripture twisting that one will go to, to prop up an utterly unsupportable eschatological model.

Concerning your frequent boasting:

2Co 10:18  For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Hallelujah

[Daniel 11:36]

It is amazing the lengths of Scripture twisting that one will go to, to prop up an utterly unsupportable eschatological model

 

This s what you are doing son .... think about it

[Steve Conley]

8 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

It is amazing the lengths of Scripture twisting that one will go to, to prop up an utterly unsupportable eschatological model

 

This s what you are doing son .... think about it

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Pops, is it hard for thee to kick against the pricks? Are you agreeing with Babel Man, that his rendition of Joel 2:31 (the meaning of "before") is better than Peter's or Luke's record of it?

You still have some time to help some people.

Hallelujah

[Revelation Man]

59 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Babel Man, what you are saying is that your interpretation of "before" is correct and that Peter's, Holy Spirit moved, quotation of it was in error, or that Luke's, Holy Spirit moved, recording of Peter's words was in error. So you are placing your interpretation above that of God, the Holy Spirit. Let God be true and every (Babel) man a liar.

I think I dealt with your false teaching before (prior to today) on another web sight. Notice, I clarified the word "before" for you, because I know you have a hard time with it.

It is amazing the lengths of Scripture twisting that one will go to, to prop up an utterly unsupportable eschatological model.

Concerning your frequent boasting:

2Co 10:18  For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Hallelujah

The facts are the facts, and you seem privy to none of them. 

The times that Payiym ( STRONGS # 6440) Speaks about being in the FACE or PRESENCE of something is shown below. 

face

Genesis 1:2, 2, 29; 2:6; 4:14, 14; 6:1, 7; 7:3, 4, 18, 23; 8:8, 9, 13; 11:4, 8, 9; 16:6, 8; 17:3, 17; 19:13; 30:33; 31:21; 32:20, 30, 30; 33:10, 10; 35:1, 7; 36:6; 38:15; 41:56; 43:3, 5, 31; 44:23, 26; 46:28, 30; 48:11; 50:1, 18. Exodus 2:15; 3:6; 10:28, 28, 29; 14:19, 25; 16:14; 32:12; 33:11, 11, 16, 20, 23; 34:29, 30, 33, 35, 35, 35. Leviticus 13:41; 17:10; 19:32; 20:3, 5, 6; 26:17. Numbers 6:25; 11:31; 12:3, 14; 16:4; 24:1. Deuteronomy 1:17; 5:4, 4; 6:15; 7:6, 10, 10; 8:20; 9:3; 25:2, 9; 28:7, 31; 31:5, 17, 18; 32:20; 34:10, 10. Joshua 5:14; 7:6, 10. Judges 6:22, 22. Ruth 2:10. 1 Samuel 5:3, 4; 17:49; 20:15; 25:23; 26:20. 2 Samuel 2:22; 3:13, 13; 9:6; 14:22, 24, 24, 28, 32; 18:8; 19:4. 1 Kings 8:14; 13:6, 34; 18:7, 42; 19:13; 21:4. 2 Kings 4:29, 31; 8:15; 9:32, 37; 12:17; 13:14; 14:8, 11; 18:24; 20:2. 1 Chronicles 16:11. 2 Chronicles 6:3, 42; 7:14; 25:17, 21; 30:9; 32:21; 35:22. Ezra 9:6, 7. Esther 1:14; 7:8. Job 1:11; 2:5; 4:15; 11:15; 13:24; 15:27; 16:8, 16; 21:31; 22:26; 23:17; 24:15; 26:9; 30:10; 33:26; 34:29; 37:12; 38:30; 41:13, 14. Psalms 5:8; 10:11; 13:1; 17:15; 21:12; 22:24; 24:6; 27:8, 8, 9; 30:7; 31:16; 34:16; 41:12; 44:15, 24; 51:9; 67:1; 69:7, 17; 80:3, 7, 19; 84:9; 88:14; 89:14, 23; 102:2; 104:15, 29, 30; 105:4; 119:135; 132:10; 143:7. Proverbs 7:13, 15; 8:27; 21:29; 24:31; 27:19, 19. Ecclesiastes 8:1, 1. Isaiah 6:2; 8:17; 14:21; 16:4; 23:17; 25:7; 27:6; 28:25; 29:22; 36:9; 38:2; 50:6, 7; 54:8; 59:2; 64:7; 65:3. Jeremiah 1:13; 2:27; 8:2; 13:26; 16:4, 17; 18:17; 21:10; 22:25; 25:26; 28:16; 32:31, 33; 33:5; 44:11. Lamentations 2:19; 3:35. Ezekiel 1:10, 10, 10, 10, 28; 3:8, 23; 4:3, 7; 6:2; 7:22; 9:8; 10:14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14; 11:13; 12:6, 12; 13:17; 14:3, 4, 7, 8; 15:7, 7; 20:35, 35, 46; 21:2, 16; 25:2; 28:21; 29:2; 34:6; 35:2; 38:2, 20; 39:14, 23, 24, 29; 40:15, 15; 41:14, 19, 19, 21, 25; 43:3; 44:4. Daniel 8:5, 17, 18; 9:3, 8, 17; 10:6, 9, 9, 15; 11:17, 18, 19. Hosea 5:5, 15; 7:2, 10. Joel 2:6, 20. Amos 5:8; 9:6, 8. Micah 3:4. Nahum 2:1; 3:5. Zechariah 5:3.

 

This same word used below in Genesis is used as PRESENCE !!

 

 Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of Jehovah God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Jehovah God amongst the trees of the garden.

faces

Genesis 9:23; 30:40. Exodus 19:7; 20:20; 25:20, 20; 37:9, 9. Leviticus 9:24. Numbers 14:5; 16:22, 45; 20:6. Judges 13:20; 18:23. 2 Samuel 19:5. 1 Kings 2:15; 18:39. 1 Chronicles 12:8, 8; 21:16. 2 Chronicles 3:13; 29:6. Job 9:24; 40:13. Psalms 34:5; 83:16. Isaiah 3:15; 13:8; 25:8; 53:3. Jeremiah 1:8, 17; 5:3; 7:19; 30:6; 42:15, 17; 44:12; 50:5; 51:51. Lamentations 5:12. Ezekiel 1:6, 8, 10, 11, 15; 3:8; 7:18; 8:16; 10:14, 21, 22, 22; 14:6; 20:47; 41:18. Daniel 1:10; 9:7. Joel 2:6. Nahum 2:10. Habakkuk 1:9. Malachi 2:3.

 

presence

Genesis 3:8; 4:16; 16:12; 25:18; 27:30; 41:46; 45:3. Exodus 10:11; 33:14, 15; 35:20. Leviticus 22:3. Numbers 20:6. Joshua 4:11; 8:32. 1 Samuel 18:11; 19:7, 10. 2 Samuel 16:19, 19, 19; 24:4. 1 Kings 1:28; 12:2. 2 Kings 3:14; 5:27; 13:23; 24:20; 25:19. 1 Chronicles 16:27, 33; 24:31. 2 Chronicles 9:23; 10:2; 20:9; 34:4. Nehemiah 2:1. Esther 1:10; 8:15. Job 1:12; 2:7; 23:15. Psalms 9:3; 16:11; 17:2; 31:20; 51:11; 68:2, 8, 8; 95:2; 97:5, 5; 100:2; 114:7, 7; 139:7; 140:13. Proverbs 17:18; 25:6, 7. Isaiah 19:1; 63:9; 64:1, 2, 3. Jeremiah 4:26; 5:22; 23:39; 52:3. Ezekiel 38:20. Jonah 1:3, 3, 10. Nahum 1:5. Zephaniah 1:7.

 

sight

Genesis 23:4, 8; 47:18. Numbers 3:4. Deuteronomy 4:37. Joshua 23:5. 2 Samuel 7:9. 1 Kings 8:25; 9:7. 2 Kings 17:18, 20, 23; 23:27; 24:3. 1 Chronicles 22:8. 2 Chronicles 6:16; 7:20. Ezra 9:9. Nehemiah 1:11; 2:5. Esther 2:17; 8:5. Job 21:8. Psalms 9:19; 19:14; 76:7; 143:2. Proverbs 4:3. Ecclesiastes 2:26; 8:3. Isaiah 5:21; 26:17. Jeremiah 4:1; 7:15; 15:1; 18:23. Ezekiel 20:43; 36:31. Hosea 2:2; 6:2.

 

This same word used below in Genesis is used as PRESENCE !! SEE BELOW: 

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of Jehovah God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Jehovah God amongst the trees of the garden. 

 

Now the same word used meaning FACE !! SEE BELOW:

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 

As you see, it means what it means according to where it is used, Hebrew was odd like that, thereby we have to watch the Translations to make sure they got it right, especially 400-500 years ago, now that we have Computers we are in a much better position to RESEARCH these things. In Malachi 4:5 it actually means BEFORE because it says BEFORE the COMING of the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord, of course Meaning Elojah is sent BEFORE the 1260 Event at the 1335 Event. (The 1335 comes BEFORE the 1260).

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Same word used ABOVE but notice he adds COMING.....Thus its BEFORE THE COMING.............

But In Joel 2:31 it means in the Presence of, OF COURSE, its the Wrath of God, this is what we expect to see.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before( IN THE PRESENCE OF ) the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

Its the Smoke of the burning trees and grasses that block out the sun, moon, and stars man !! Come on, this isn't that hard. 

[Last Daze]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Suggestions:

1) the 70th week is long ago done and dusted

2) there is no pre-trib as per the 15th century Jesuit and later Darby and Scofield

3) The Revelations are NOT supposed to be taken in a linear fashion

4) Yahweh does NOT require another temple. Yeshua said WE are the temple...

5) Matthew 24 gives us all we really need - why complicate it all with complex 'wisdom'?

6) there is no 7-year anything...

7) the BEAST is a system... not necessarily a 'person'

? HaSatan laughs at the prophesy racks of your local 'Christian' bookstore... (as the takings are banked)

P.s. Run from anyone that says they have it all figured out.

Sage observations there.

Minor point:

7) the beast comes up out of the abyss so it likely refers to an evil spirit being that causes a "system".  But yes, definitely not a human.

[Montana Marv]

5 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

We are here to expose false teaching, like that which you are presenting. What you teach leads others astray, through the twisting of the Scriptures. You promise them a great escape from the coming unprecedented persecution, but it will never come. Believers in Jesus Christ, the church, the elect shall go through great tribulation.

2 Thes 2:2 Do not become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the "day of the Lord" has already come.  What did some Thessalonians think they had missed?  

In Christ

Montana Marv

[JoeChan82]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:08 PM, Brother Duke said:

Well the 144k do come back with Christ and follow him where he goes.  Oh and the Bride for an Israelite should should be a virgin and chaste.

These verses seem plain to me. I don't know how to else to explain them.

Revelation 21:9-10 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,