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Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures


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3 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Did you ever consider that its not the message you bring but the way you bring it? If you wish me to elaborate, I will. In pm though. I have been holding back from showing this to you on the public forum.

PM away .    You loved ayin .     Now throw those hands up and praise the LORD . 

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4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

There is no biblical requirement that a person be baptized immediately, so no doctrine in Scripture is violated.  And the motives were reasonable given the threats they faced.

In their day there was a good reason.   Baptism gave you unfettered access to the congregation and possibly rise to leadership.   Due to the infiltration of false teachers who would potentially become leaders, such as pastors, who would lead others astray, there was cause for examination and watching someone to make sure their conversion was true.  Typically, if they are not a true believer, two years was sufficient time for that to be revealed.   The last thing you wanted to do was to baptize a false teacher who would then be able to gather a following and wreak havoc in the congregations. 

 

Scriptural model:

Acts 8:26 ¶ And the angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, Arise and go toward the south, on the way that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza, which is a desertedplace .
27 And he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasure and had come to Jerusalem to worship,
28 was returning. And sitting in his chariot he read Isaiah the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, Go near and join yourself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran there to him and heard him read the prophet Isaiah, and said, Do you indeed understand what you are reading?
31 And he said, How can I unless some man should guide me? And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 And the content of the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter, and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so He opened not His mouth.
33 In His humiliation His judgment was taken away, and who shall declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth."
34 And the eunuch answered Philip and said, I beg you, of whom does the prophet speak this? Of himself or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth and began at the same Scripture and preached the gospel of Jesus to him.
36 And as they passed along the way, they came on some water. And the eunuch said, See, here is water, what hinders me from being baptized?
37 Philip said, If you believe with all your heart, it is lawful. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch. And he baptized him.

  • Praise God! 1
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2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

It wouldn't profit them because they are not saved.

But that is not about salvation from sin.

 

It is impossible for us to remain believers.   We didn't become believers on our own and we didn't magically, all of a sudden become good enough to remain believers.   There is not no catch.  The problem is that you really don't grasp what assurance is.   Assurance is Jesus keeping us saved, not us keeping ourselves saved.   You are either going to stand before the Lord some day and be judged on your own merit, or you can go to the judgement bar today and be judge righteous on the merits of Jesus Christ alone.   

 

If you are still walking in your old nature, you were never saved. 

 

We are commanded to abide in Christ, but that is actually His power to do so, not our own.  We are not to operate in our own strength to keep ourselves saved.  WE abide Him because He keeps us savd.

 

That is talking about not being disqualified for service. He is not saying he will a castaway from salvation.

 

Why?  Because the context is about our participation in the blessings promised to Israel.  It is not talking about being cut off from salvation.   You need to pay attention to the context.   Paul is using an olive tree metaphor to discuss the relationship of the church to Israel.   It is not talking about we are saved from sin.

That is a self-contradictory statement.    We don't work  to be stay saved, but we have to work abide in him by faith to stay saved?  You are making abiding in Him a work that we must perform as a condition of salvation.  That is a completely self-defeating statement.  You are, ultimately, teaching a works-based salvation.

Parables that Jesus told say the same thing. What of the parable of the sower? The good seed was cast forth everywhere. On the stony ground, no life sprang forth. However, what of the good seed that actually sprouted forth to newness of life?  Some fell among weeds, and the cares of this life choked the life out of it. Some fell on shallow ground and again, the good seed birthd real life. But here the ground was never well prepared nor plowed deep, and the life remained shallow. It looked just like the seed that grew on good ground, but when the drought hit, the life withered and died. 

The branches in him that are cut off were never believers in the first place.   In context, that verse is talking about Judas.   The vine tree metaphor was given at the last supper after Judas left the room.

I guess it depends on whether or not you want to be judged based on your own efforts and merits, or if you want to be declared righteous based only on the merits of Jesus.

No, my dear brother. We have escaped the grip of Egypt, but for 1900 years, the church has pretty much lost its way. We are content with proper doctrine,  but the life of Christ, and His love, and His victory over the world, the flesh and the devil do not coarse thru our veins.... yet. We draw near Him with our lips, but as long as we continue to walk on our old natures, we will continue to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. We have not yet believed that nothing profits but a new nature. But praise God, we are about to. 

Like Israel, we too as the modern church have been given the assurance  of walking in the land of Promise, where the power of darkness has no grip on us. But until now, we have refused to believe who we are, and let Christ not only be our savior, but also our Lord. And like them, we too have wandered in circles, divided ourselves into schisms and sects, and those into more schisms and sects, and we all have been convinced that we are the ones who see the truth, and have little patience or love for any who do not see it OUR way. 

But our lack of fruit, and our impatience and quick judgment upon any  who see things differently reveal with no question which nature we have all been walking in.  Our religious pride has blinded us to what God has for us in these last days, and so we gather around us like minded people with our take on truth, thinking our God is going to somehow honor us as we advertise to the world our impotence in the things of God that matter..... love displayed through compassion, kindness, patience and thinking others better than ourselves. We blind ourselves to the importance of fruit as the great and true revealer of whether or not our doctrine is the right one.

We as His body on earth have failed in our calling. We are called to serve.... to serve God by serving and loving one another. We are called to display the beauty of holiness to a world that has lost sight of it, because we have failed to display it to them, and that because we do not even believe it truly is possible in our lives. We offer them doctrines but not Jesus Himself and doctrine, as important as it is, draws or saves no one. Jesus Himself must be lifted up and His character displayed to a world slowly getting more and more corrupt because we are salt that has lost our savor. 

 The world sees this impotence and mocks us, and sadly, more often than not, rightly so. But the hour is now here that the true children of God will awake from their slumber and shake off the dust of our form of godliness that denies that God can and will free us from the grip of this world and the love of self and make us godly vessels, fit for His use in the coming harvest. 

Faith will arise in our hearts as we come to understand that since the day we were saved, we are not of this world. Yes, we are in it, but we are not OF it. And as the sleep departs from our eyes, and like Samson, we stop grinding out religious corn to the amusement of our enemy, gain our vision back, and ask the Lord to, one more time, use us to display Him to the world,  we will understand who we are....new creatures in Christ. We will understand that sin can and will be driven from our lives, not by our feeble efforts, but by Him living in us, and living our lives through us... new creatures! 

And as our fallow ground is plowed deep, our faith, long shriveled up and fruitless, will sprout forth and begin to produce real fruits of the Spirit. And the world, who long used is as the butt of their jokes, will look upon us and marvel, saying “Look, that which bore only briars and thorns, has become again like the garden of Eden!”

New natures.....obedient ones.... ones capable of loving other as we love ourselves.... ones who want Jesus as BOTH savior AND Lord.....are ours for the asking. Ask, and you shall receive, any of you who hunger and thirst for righteous hearts, for pure thoughts, for control over your fleshly bodies. God will not disappoint you, for all this has been His plan from the beginning. 

But let us all know this. Those content to remain in their old fleshly natures, puffed up with religious pride and self love, full, perhaps, of He knowledge of scripture but devoid of the nature of our savior, will be greatly offended. And with hearts hardened to the conviction of God that sin MUST go in our lives if we are to name Jesus as our savior, they will wax worse and worse. 

The great divide that has been fast approaching is here, , and as the truth of who we truly are awakens us, the tares will rail against it with great vehemence, and the humble children of the king will welcome the truth that promises to set them FREE INDEED with great joy. And why will the tares rail out? Simply because as the highway of holiness comes into view, and His children begin to walk in it, their lives will testify that the hearts of the tares are evil, bent on preserving self hidden in a religious cloak, rather than hating it. 

To those who have come to see the futility of our being good enough, and yet refuse to lower the standard that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord, take hope! God is about to do a work in our day, that if our own eyes did not see it, we would not believe it.

The bride of Christ is about to become prepared to meet her bridegroom, and we will be gloriously prepared by our Father in Heaven, laden with humility, filled with power and walking with great joy in our hearts. Long overcome by the elements of the world, we are even now discovering that we are destined to be overcomers, and walk in full victory over the world, the flesh and the devil. That, brothers and sisters, is our heritage., our birthright!

We as the church have not been birthed in power at Pentecost only to, at the end of the age, limp out of this world and into eternity with our lives testifying only that Jesus can forgive us, but cannot change us. Hear these words! His promises are real. It is our faith in Him to cause us to walk in them that has been woefully lacking. Praise God, dear brother, all that is about to change. 

Many blessings, 

Gideon

 

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8 hours ago, Gideon said:

Brother, here is the question. Paul tells us that we died when Jesus died, and just as Jesus rose from the dead to newness of life, we are told that we did as well. But what if someone never reckons themselves dead to the sin that once ruled over them? What if they never,by faith, put on the new man? Will it profit them? 

Here is what we re told in the Word concerning the importance of mixing faith with truth to make it come alive:

”But it did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

I fully believe in the security of a believer, but that is the catch. We must remain believers. As long as we walk out our lives in our old nature, we give Satan great advantage, for here, sin is not only possible, but inevitable.    One will say “Yes, but we can confess it and be forgiven. And that is very true.

But satan’s ultimate goal is to not to get us to sin, but to root out faith in our hearts. And how does he accomplish this? By a process of hardening our hearts, as each sin, big or small, slowly coats our hearts and chokes the life out of it. Faith is slowly turned into head knowledge and it is such a slow process, we can barely perceive it. That is what we are, even as children of God, exhorted to examine ourselves whether we be “in the faith”. This does not refer to believing with our heads that Jesus is our savior, and died for our sins. It is by faith, abiding in Him, where Christ actually dwells in our hearts by faith. This is the  place of safety, and no other. 

Paul himself said that he kept his body under..... speaking of his old nature..... lest after preaching to others, he himself might be a castaway. Why would he say such a thing if such a thing were not possible? Why did he write to the Romans and tell them in chapter 11 that if we continue in His goodness, we will not be cut off?  The preponderance of scripture warns us again and again that our job is not to work to stay saved, but to abide in Him by faith in order to be assured that we remain saved.  

Parables that Jesus told say the same thing. What of the parable of the sower? The good seed was cast forth everywhere. On the stony ground, no life sprang forth. However, what of the good seed that actually sprouted forth to newness of life?  Some fell among weeds, and the cares of this life choked the life out of it. Some fell on shallow ground and again, the good seed birthd real life. But here the ground was never well prepared nor plowed deep, and the life remained shallow. It looked just like the seed that grew on good ground, but when the drought hit, the life withered and died. 

Jesus told us that every branch in Him that bears not fruit will be cut off. We want to claim that this is legalism, and that I am proposing we must bear fruit. No. We must finally abide in Him, and if we do, we WILL bear fruit. And how do we then abide in Him? We reckon ourselves.... the old us.... our fleshly nature.... as dead.  

We have spent years trying to die to self, and all to no avail. But praise God, when we finally take the leap of faith that we are no longer that old man ruled by the power of darkness, and put on our new natures that  can be caused to obey Him and can abide in Him, we find the security that we so long to find.

Just something to think on. I know you agree with much of this, but as to the stand of OSAS, we seem to be, at least at present, on opposite sides of the fence. 

Many  blessings, 

Gids

 

Yes, I agree with a lot you wrote here . Knowing that I bare witness with your relationship with Christ, and you bare witness with mine. So in Christ we can kick these things around before God. Knowing that everything I write here will be taken as someone who is “searching after truth”,  and not “as truth.” 

I am not saying that I “know that I know” I’m correct here, or have any “Divine” revelation concerning these things. But the “peace of Christ in my heart” is what I go by. And my joy does not remove itself as I hold true to these things. Could I be wrong? Sure. But everything in me tells me I am “living up to the standard to which I have obtained”.  So I have to walk in all the light that I see, until God opens up more or deeper light. 

So to start, God is love,  and as a God of love,  He has made our salvation as great, glorious and simple,  as all love could possibly have made it. Which is, “do you want it?” Once this question is answered in the affirmative, that life has started, which can never die. The believer can only do as much to forming of  God in the themselves,  as Mary did in forming God in herself. Which was, “Lord be it onto me according to your word”.  Which was her desire towards it.  Once again once the answer is given in the affirmative something is brought to life that wasn’t there before, scripture calls it the New creation or birth. That birth is Gods gift of life,  to all those that want it. This is where it seems, you and I differ. You seem to think that once this life has been formed it can be unformed again. I hold true to the idea that just like when sperm hits the egg, life is formed in the blink of an eye, and that life can never be undone.  But how this life grows is totally up to the believers desire after “this life”. For “this life” is “spirit” and  it is the true life of the believer. And regardless of how much that new life has grown or not grown,  at the death of the body that life will be manifested as the true life of the believer. But back to how that new life grows. You and I are definitely on the same page as to how this new life grows. It is simply by the faith of the heart. Knowing what are salvation in Christ consists of. It is simply that “when Christ died we died”. And it is to the degree that a believer believes this from the heart, to that degree will the believer be set free from the old man and his deeds. But a common  mistake is made here  for once a believer is set free from the old man and his deeds the believer thinks this is Christ being formed in them, which it is not. It is just getting rid of all the weeds so that Christ has clean soil to grow Himself in the believer. For no man can form God in themselves, this is a work totally done by God Himself. This is why self must die, for self will constantly try to help God out, or in other words, destroy the work of God. 

All that being said, we could argue this scripture against that scripture all day and it would get us no where. For there is enough scripture on both sides to make a case. Also knowning that we both know that until the Lord opens up the meaning of the “words of life” to our innermost being, it is just our human reasoning making use of  the “words of scripture.” 

So having said all that, I will continue to put forth my (human) reasoning of my present understanding why I think OSAS is correct and true. 

All life starts from a birth, for the distinct purpose of growing. The birth is not a end in itself, but it’s so that life can grow and manifest itself in greater and greater degrees. This is why we have (in my thoughts) have all these scriptures that encourages one towards growth. But it is the “new birth” that is encouraged to grow.  This is as we know by “reckoning ourselfs dead  onto sin and alive onto God”. Seeing how it is the Divine Nature that is brought to life in the believer and only a nature that has death in it can die.  So since the Divine Nature has no death in it, the creature(s) brought forth by it,  can never die. The body will die but the body is not the New Creation it just houses the New Birth. So in my mind this is why Jesus said you must be “born again.” This was the line between saved or not saved, if one was “born again”they have the Divine Nature birthed in them howbeit ever so small, as a grain of mustard seed, but it’s there, as a birth of life in them. This is why satan was never offered salvation, for He can never die, and for him to get a new nature the old one would have to die. This is also why God prevented Adam from eating from the tree of life after his fall, to prevent him from being in the position satans rebellion put him in. In possession of eternal life  with a fallen nature. This is why our salvation in Christ consists of “when He died, we died”. So that, by Christ taking us to death with Him on the cross a new nature might be birthed in us,  but that birth is Gods free gift to all that would have it. These  are my thoughts concerning OSAS at my present stage,  in my walk and growth in Christ. Hope it gives you a little insight on my “thinks”.

much love my brother in Christ, Not me 

Edited by Not me
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11 hours ago, Yowm said:

For someone who writes voluminously, there is no shortage of doctrine on your part...besides...

1Ti_4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Rom_6:17  But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom_16:17  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Eph_4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
1Ti_1:3  As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1Ti_1:10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti_4:6  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
1Ti_4:13  Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
1Ti_4:16  Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
1Ti_6:3  If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
2Ti_3:10  But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti_3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti_4:2  Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti_4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Tit_1:9  Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tit_2:1  But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2Jn_1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn_1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

To downplay 'doctrine' in any sense is in itself expressing 'doctrine'.

We are told by our Lord Himself that it will be the bearing of fruits that will identify true believers. When we hear a man speak, no matter what is stated, if there is impatience, unkindness, sarcasm or  a wanting to think the worst of another, especially a brother or sister in Christ, it is time to step back and pray for discernment. 

Blessings, 

Gids

Edited by Gideon
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12 hours ago, Not me said:

Yes, I agree with a lot you wrote here . Knowing that I bare witness with your relationship with Christ, and you bare witness with mine. So in Christ we can kick these things around before God. Knowing that everything I write here will be taken as someone who is “searching after truth”,  and not “as truth.” 

I am not saying that I “know that I know” I’m correct here, or have any “Divine” revelation concerning these things. But the “peace of Christ in my heart” is what I go by. And my joy does not remove itself as I hold true to these things. Could I be wrong? Sure. But everything in me tells me I am “living up to the standard to which I have obtained”.  So I have to walk in all the light that I see, until God opens up more or deeper light. 

So to start, God is love,  and as a God of love,  He has made our salvation as great, glorious and simple,  as all love could possibly have made it. Which is, “do you want it?” Once this question is answered in the affirmative, that life has started, which can never die. The believer can only do as much to forming of  God in the themselves,  as Mary did in forming God in herself. Which was, “Lord be it onto me according to your word”.  Which was her desire towards it.  Once again once the answer is given in the affirmative something is brought to life that wasn’t there before, scripture calls it the New creation or birth. That birth is Gods gift of life,  to all those that want it. This is where it seems, you and I differ. You seem to think that once this life has been formed it can be unformed again. I hold true to the idea that just like when sperm hits the egg, life is formed in the blink of an eye, and that life can never be undone.  But how this life grows is totally up to the believers desire after “this life”. For “this life” is “spirit” and  it is the true life of the believer. And regardless of how much that new life has grown or not grown,  at the death of the body that life will be manifested as the true life of the believer. But back to how that new life grows. You and I are definitely on the same page as to how this new life grows. It is simply by the faith of the heart. Knowing what are salvation in Christ consists of. It is simply that “when Christ died we died”. And it is to the degree that a believer believes this from the heart, to that degree will the believer be set free from the old man and his deeds. But a common  mistake is made here  for once a believer is set free from the old man and his deeds the believer thinks this is Christ being formed in them, which it is not. It is just getting rid of all the weeds so that Christ has clean soil to grow Himself in the believer. For no man can form God in themselves, this is a work totally done by God Himself. This is why self must die, for self will constantly try to help God out, or in other words, destroy the work of God. 

All that being said, we could argue this scripture against that scripture all day and it would get us no where. For there is enough scripture on both sides to make a case. Also knowning that we both know that until the Lord opens up the meaning of the “words of life” to our innermost being, it is just our human reasoning making use of  the “words of scripture.” 

So having said all that, I will continue to put forth my (human) reasoning of my present understanding why I think OSAS is correct and true. 

All life starts from a birth, for the distinct purpose of growing. The birth is not a end in itself, but it’s so that life can grow and manifest itself in greater and greater degrees. This is why we have (in my thoughts) have all these scriptures that encourages one towards growth. But it is the “new birth” that is encouraged to grow.  This is as we know by “reckoning ourselfs dead  onto sin and alive onto God”. Seeing how it is the Divine Nature that is brought to life in the believer and only a nature that has death in it can die.  So since the Divine Nature has no death in it, the creature(s) brought forth by it,  can never die. The body will die but the body is not the New Creation it just houses the New Birth. So in my mind this is why Jesus said you must be “born again.” This was the line between saved or not saved, if one was “born again”they have the Divine Nature birthed in them howbeit ever so small, as a grain of mustard seed, but it’s there, as a birth of life in them. This is why satan was never offered salvation, for He can never die, and for him to get a new nature the old one would have to die. This is also why God prevented Adam from eating from the tree of life after his fall, to prevent him from being in the position satans rebellion put him in. In possession of eternal life  with a fallen nature. This is why our salvation in Christ consists of “when He died, we died”. So that, by Christ taking us to death with Him on the cross a new nature might be birthed in us,  but that birth is Gods free gift to all that would have it. These  are my thoughts concerning OSAS at my present stage,  in my walk and growth in Christ. Hope it gives you a little insight on my “thinks”.

much love my brother in Christ, Not me 

Thanks for your explanation. I will pray on it. One thing to consider. I think it was Leonard Ravenhill who said that when we are trying to lead people to Christ, we are often so anxious to do so, we yank them out of the womb before they are ready. 

What did he mean here? That counting the cost is part of the process of deciding to follow the Lord. The cost is losing our life to let His reign in us. We are told that we must come to the point of hearing our own life, our old man. 

Sadly, in this day and age, this is not shared even after ome’s salvation prayer. So when it finally becomes clear, and God begins to deal with them, some indeed will buck up and choose to resist. Now, it could be said that these were never saved to begin with, and I could accept that. 

Our current understanding of the OSAS doctrine is flawed IMHO. From God’s perspective, I fully believe OSAS to be truth. However, we do not KNOW we will make Heaven our home. We are told that it is by continuing in Him that we prove that our salvation was genuine. Enduring to the end is part of our calling. To tell someone today that they needn’t fear sin is to give Satan great advantage. 

Food for thought. 

Blessings,me

Edited by Gideon
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3 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Thanks for your explanation. I will pray on it. One thing to consider. I think it was Leonard Ravenhill who said that when we are trying to lead people to Christ, we are often so anxious to do so, we yank them out of the womb before they are ready. 

 

Just brought forth my thoughts. If you find something you can eat in them, it blesses me. 

This is why keeping  ones personal relationship with Christ as close as possible is so important, so when you are witnessing or talking to someone about Christ you are speaking out from Christ and not self. 

 

3 minutes ago, Gideon said:

What did he mean here? That counting the cost is part of the process of deciding to follow the Lord. The cot is losing our life to let His reign in us. We are told that we must come to the point of hearing our own life, our old man. 

 

You need auto correct.  :)

 

3 minutes ago, Gideon said:

 

Sadly, in this day and age, this is not shared even after ome’s salvation prayer. So when it finally becomes clear, and God begins to deal with them, some indeed will buck up and choose to resist. Now, it could be said that these were never saved to begin with, and I could accept that. 

Our current understanding of the OSAS doctrine is flawed IMHO. From God’s perspective, I fully believe OSAS to be truth. However, we do not KNOW we will make Heaven our home. We are told that it is by continuing in Him that we prove that our salvation was genuine. Enduring to the end is part of our calling. To tell someone today that they needn’t fear sin is to give Satan great advantage. 

Food for thought. 

Blessings,me

I believe this in scripture is why were told to “make our calling and election sure,” and again “to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.” For it is our understanding that is flawed and incomplete. Which makes our understanding of truth “as seen through a fog”

much love in Christ, Not me

 

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Guest shiloh357
5 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Scriptural model:

Acts 8:26 ¶ And the angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, Arise and go toward the south, on the way that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza, which is a desertedplace .
27 And he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasure and had come to Jerusalem to worship,
28 was returning. And sitting in his chariot he read Isaiah the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, Go near and join yourself to this chariot.
30 And Philip ran there to him and heard him read the prophet Isaiah, and said, Do you indeed understand what you are reading?
31 And he said, How can I unless some man should guide me? And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
32 And the content of the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter, and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so He opened not His mouth.
33 In His humiliation His judgment was taken away, and who shall declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth."
34 And the eunuch answered Philip and said, I beg you, of whom does the prophet speak this? Of himself or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth and began at the same Scripture and preached the gospel of Jesus to him.
36 And as they passed along the way, they came on some water. And the eunuch said, See, here is water, what hinders me from being baptized?
37 Philip said, If you believe with all your heart, it is lawful. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch. And he baptized him.

I get that, but you are attempting to formulate a doctrine out of a historical narrative. And that is not how doctrine works.  Just because something was done a certain way, it is not a requirement on us to emulate that act.  We don't make doctrine out of historical events.

The  threats and problems that arose in the 2nd and 3rd centuries had to be addressed in order to preserve the Church.  And there is nothing in the Scriptures that require baptism to occur within a certain time frame.   

We live in a time when we don't have to face the same threats they did, and so we don't have a point of reference for what they did.  They were responding to need to make sure that they were not baptizing false converts, who would feel legitimized and either end up going to Hell under the false pretense of thinking they were saved, or who would exploit their deeper entrance into  congregational life as a means of spreading false teaching and leadings others into error.  

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4 hours ago, Gideon said:

We are told by our Lord Himself that it will be the bearing of fruits that will identify true believers. When we hear a man speak, no matter what is stated, if there is impatience, unkindness, sarcasm or  a wanting to think the worst of another, especially a brother or sister in Christ, it is time to step and pray for discernment. 

Blessings, 

Gids

There is also 1Cor 5:5 and I dare say that should shut the door on all reliance of outward appearance at any given moment but perhaps over time... 
2 Peter 1:5 (KJV)
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

the last of this pursuit lies in patience next to godliness which I find myself halted by reality of the infinite, however, myself being pressed by time that which God does not have. I dare say there were places in my life by outward appearances I would have been judged a non-believer but within me was battle and when God stripped from me the pleasure of sin, observing the people around me and the absence of (God's Love) in them brought repentance and fear for I did not want to be there or with them forever...

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1 hour ago, enoob57 said:

There is also 1Cor 5:5 and I dare say that should shut the door on all reliance of outward appearance at any given moment but perhaps over time... 
2 Peter 1:5 (KJV)
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

the last of this pursuit lies in patience next to godliness which I find myself halted by reality of the infinite, however, myself being pressed by time that which God does not have. I dare say there were places in my life by outward appearances I would have been judged a non-believer but within me was battle and when God stripped from me the pleasure of sin, observing the people around me and the absence of (God's Love) in them brought repentance and fear for I did not want to be there or with them forever...

Brother, you make a good point. When someone is still trapped in Romans 7, fruit will often be noticeably absent. But ultimately, if one continues growing in the Lord, those fruits should become visible, amen? 

Blessings, Enoob

Gideon

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