Jump to content
IGNORED

Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures


WordSword

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  10
  • Topic Count:  163
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  1,152
  • Content Per Day:  0.24
  • Reputation:   639
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  12/07/2010
  • Status:  Offline

28 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Do we not understand that this conflict.... flesh vs. Spirit  is not the state of a believer walking in his new nature. Does not Paul tell us in

Well, if you're referring to Galatians 5:7, the Spirit's opposition to our sinful nature (flesh, not the body but our human nature), I believe it often addresses what we decide to "do."

My understanding on Rom 7:14-25 is one "walking in the Spirit," which can have much variation in understanding between those who study the Bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  14
  • Topic Count:  510
  • Topics Per Day:  0.23
  • Content Count:  3,178
  • Content Per Day:  1.46
  • Reputation:   3,344
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  04/06/2018
  • Status:  Offline

33 minutes ago, WordSword said:

 

My understanding on Rom 7:14-25 is one "walking in the Spirit," which can have much variation in understanding between those who study the Bible.

(If you wouldn’t mind me chiming in. It’s a issue close to my heart) 

As to what it means to walk “in the Spirit” all one would have to do is figure out what the Galatians did at first. For we read;   

Galatians 3:3 (NKJV)
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

So all one would have to do is figure out what they did at first. And a continuation of that would be “walking in the Spirit” and a continuation of that would be “living in the Spirit”. 

So what did the Galatians do at first? 

They simply “believed”

much love in Christ, Not me  

Edited by Not me
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357
1 hour ago, Butero said:

By saying that they are not really saved, you have made your doctrine of little more value than just a hypothetical theological discussion. 

No, false conversions are a reality in the Church.   A reality that you don't want to have to account for.   

Quote

I would say that the professing Christian that does such things either wasn't saved or fell from grace and is lost and you would say they were never saved. 

In the Bible "fallen from grace"  actually refers to the Galatians who were trying to live by the law, not living immoral sin.    

And yes, there are people who claim to be Christians who are not.  They either were never saved because they believe they are Christians for reasons that have nothing to  do with Jesus, or their conversion wasn't genuine.  Those people really do exist.  

Quote

Either way, same result.  Not only that, but it shows that a person can genuinely believe they are saved and be lost, so where is the assurance in that kind of salvation?  

There is none because that is not any kind of salvation.   Assurance is only granted to those who are genuinely saved. 

One of our biggest problems is that we accept people as Christians without asking them why they think they are Christians.  We are so afraid of questioning their salvation, that we would rather politely send them to Hell in order not to offend them, than to get them to honestly assess their true standing with God and come to a place of repentance and receive genuine salvation.

I heard about an old African-American preacher who once said about some people, "I gots to them lost, before I can gets them saved."  There is a lot of truth to that.   People don't realize they are sinners and they never had to face the reality of their sin the face of a holy God.   They have been "Christian" their whole lives since they were a child and just assumed that being confirmed and being a baptized member in good standing in their Church is enough. 

I knew a guy who went to church and walked down the aisle and "got saved" because he was in love with one of the girls in the church and knew she would not date a non-Christian.   There are people who "convert" for a variety of reasons.   Those people really do exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  35
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  1,533
  • Content Per Day:  0.57
  • Reputation:   382
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  11/03/2016
  • Status:  Offline

3 hours ago, Butero said:

I have most certainly mentioned the blood of Jesus.

In which believers can fall away and be lost forever, so His blood doesn't cover future sins?

You have the knowledge of His blood, but do you really know what it stands for? God bless.

3 hours ago, Butero said:

Your faith is in the god OSAS, your doctrine.  That is what you are believing and trusting in to save you.

No, OSAS faith is in the shed blood of Jesus Christ which is tangible in the hearts of believers.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Servant
  • Followers:  25
  • Topic Count:  275
  • Topics Per Day:  0.05
  • Content Count:  5,208
  • Content Per Day:  1.00
  • Reputation:   1,893
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/02/2010
  • Status:  Offline

5 hours ago, Butero said:

What in the world are you talking about?  Did you go back and read 4000 of my posts?  If you read my last 4000 posts, it would show what you said is a lie.  I have most certainly mentioned the blood of Jesus.  You continue to make the same error others like you have done.  You pit one book of the Bible against another, and choose which ones to hold to.  You accuse me of ignoring the writings of Paul, but you will ignore Matthew, James and Hebrews.  That is a bazaar thing to say, because Hebrews was written by Paul.  You are also having to ignore Peter and the writings of John, especially the book of 1 John, chapter 3.  Your post is full of errors, so there really isn't much more to say about it.  

You most certainly are working your way to heaven.  Your faith is in the god OSAS, your doctrine.  That is what you are believing and trusting in to save you.  So long as you believe in OSAS, you remain saved.  You may as well set up a graven image to OSAS.  

Butero removed from thread for this comment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest shiloh357
On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 4:30 PM, Gideon said:

Do we not understand that this conflict.... flesh vs. Spirit  is not the state of a believer walking in his new nature. Does not Paul tell us in Romans 7:5:

”For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.”

              Romans 7:5 

And again, in Romans 8, Paul follows up by telling us:

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

                 Romans 8:8-13 

And it is this truth that we are being awakened to is these last days. There are not three options here..... flesh, Spirit and a mix to one degree or another of both. No, there are but two. We have been taught that we are slowly being transformed from old creatures to new ones, where we have less and less of our fleshly nature and more and more of our new victorious one. We have been taught wrong. 

We are either walking in the flesh or walking in the Spirit... I.e. the new man. If we are in the flesh, sin, to one degree or another, will reign over us. But praise God, if we are walking in the Spirit, we are told we owe the flesh nothing and that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, amen? 

Ever since the early rain ended, Satan has been able to convince us through a watering down of the truth, that in this life we will never escape the grip of sin, nd that our flesh will always be present, like an anchoring keeping us from soaring as overcomers.  But our God’s salvation is far greater than any of us have ever believed, and in these last days, we will understand exactly who we are in Christ. We are new creatures, overcomers of the world, the flesh and the devil. We owe the flesh and sin that goes with it NOTHING, and as our faith grows to believe this, so will our victory. 

Those who are born again, are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. 

We are not being transformed from old to new, but are being transformed into the image of Christ on a daily basis.  

We will always war against the flesh.  And sometimes, we win the battle and sometimes we don't.   Our sinful nature has not yet been eradicated.   We have victory over it because as believers we have overcome (I John 5: 4-5).   But that does not mean we never fail.  We are not prisoners to sin, but we still fail from time to time.   I am not an overcomer when I am not sinning.   I am an overcomer for no other reason than having put my faith in Jesus Christ.   

Quote

Is there security for the believer here? Absolutely! God can and will keep us from falling, just as He promised. Our shields of faith WILL quench all the fiery arrows Satan throws at us. And when we are tempted, not only will He not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist, and not only will He make a way of escape so that we do not give into it, He will also.... listen closely, steuggling saints.... He will also CAUSE US to take that way of escape.... every time! Now that is security!

You are misapplying that verse:  "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1Co 10:13)

The word for "temptation"  in that verse refers to testing and trials.   "Temptation" is not always referring to that spiritual  "tug" we feel toward sin.  Paul is saying that we will not suffer trials and testing above what we are able to endure, but will provide a  way of escape. 

Quote

if sin still rears it’s ugly head in our lives, and here I am talking willful sin that we know is wrong and do it anyway, we are being ignorant of the danger that comes from sin, where our hearts can be hardened to the point that  our faith is slowly turned into head knowledge.  There is great danger here. Sin.... willful sin... must go.

Willful sin...  As opposed to what?   All sin is willful.

Quote

 

Here is the question each one of us will have to answer in the days to come as the veil is pulled back to the truth that we are destined to walk totally victorious over the sins that once tripped us up time and again. And what is that question? 

Do we actually want to stop sinning?

Or do we see it too restrictive, infringing on our “free will”?  We have been clearly told that our God can and will cause us (His words, not mine) to will AND to do of His good pleasure. He has promised to insure we walk in true full obedience, abiding in Him all day every day. The only real question is..... does that appeal to us? It is one thing to say “I want such a walk but do not see how it is possible.” To you, God will move mountains to breathe  on your faith to see that you can believe it. But if your answer is “No thanks, even if it is possible”, great danger lurks. 

 

If you are arguing that as Christians should not sin and that our security rests in not sinning any longer, you are presenting a false doctrine not in the Bible.


 

Quote

 

Listen, our fleshly nature is a liar and a traitor. We cannot re-train it. We cannot discipline it. We cannot force it to be good. And we cannot kill it.  We have one option. One. We can reckon it dead by faith, believing that when Christ died, so did the old us. Our flesh can be very religious, it can appear to be quite good outwardly. But it is still flesh, and they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Cannot.

That is a hard pill to swallow. But it is truth, truth that will set us free indeed if we will humble ourselves and tell our God we NEED new natures. We NEED victory. We NEED to abide in Him, 24/7/365. Will we admit it, or will we dig in our heels and tell God that we need nothing and that we are walking totally pleasing to Him and see no need for anything more?

The answer to this critical question will be required of each one of us as we enter the valley of decision. May there not be one heart resisting the truth that Christ in us can do what we could never do. Victory over Saran is our birthright. We have wandered in the wilderness of unbelief far to long. The land of promis3 awaits us. Shall we not go in together? 

Many blessings to all, 

Gideon

 

We have a sin nature and we will fail and stumble at times.  Even YOU  sin on a daily basis.

This is why our justification is by faith and not works.   This is why our justification doesn't depend on our sanctification.   You are trying to connect eternal security with sanctification, making our security conditional on where we are in the sanctification process at any given time.  Authentic Christians are not looking for a way to sin, are not desirous to live in sin. But we do fail at times and fortunately, God gave us a plan of salvation that we cannot mess up with our failures and shortcomings.   

As a Christian I have victory over sin and that victory was purchased for me.  It exists and operates independent of me and is based solely on the work and merits of Jesus Christ.   I am victorious over sin, even when I fail.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...