Jump to content
WordSword

Seemingly Anti-OSAS Scriptures

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Butero said:

Then why didn't anyone but you come in here and affirm that?  Are you saying that a woman that parties all the time is not saved, even if she accepted Christ in a Baptist Church?  Are you saying a woman that tried to kill her husband is not saved, even if she accepted Christ in a Baptist Church?  Are you saying a man that died in the act of fornication, who was in the habit of committing this sin on a regular basis, but accepted Christ in a Baptist Church is not saved?  I know three people that fit that description.  All 3 are regular church goers.  One is dead, but all three were regular church goers.  

They are likely not Christians.   People like you never take into account the reality of false conversions.  

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is not what I said.  I said that genuinely saved people do not want to sin.   

No, I do not teach that have never said that.  

If you were not in such breathless rage all of the time in your attempt to "defeat" me, you would not have ignored me several days ago when I stated that there is a difference between "professing" believers and those who are genuine followers of Jesus.   So yes, professing believers who commit those sins is proving they were never saved.

 

That is always the false claim that your side puts out against eternal  security as if it teaches that people can sin all they want.  You cannot debate the doctrine on the merits of what it does teach, so you have to assign false values to it and redefine the doctrine in a manner that gives you something to knock down.

By saying that they are not really saved, you have made your doctrine of little more value than just a hypothetical theological discussion.  I would say that the professing Christian that does such things either wasn't saved or fell from grace and is lost and you would say they were never saved.  Either way, same result.  Not only that, but it shows that a person can genuinely believe they are saved and be lost, so where is the assurance in that kind of salvation?  

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, WordSword said:

Amen and thanks E57! One reborn will not "desire" sin, though the sin nature still attempts to cause us to desire it:

“For the flesh (sin nature; old man, not the body) lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish” (Gal 5:17). Those not reborn cannot resist the sin nature without God's Spirit!

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13). Those not reborn are bereft to be ruled by the sin nature by desiring it over God.

 

Do we not understand that this conflict.... flesh vs. Spirit  is not the state of a believer walking in his new nature. Does not Paul tell us in Romans 7:5:

”For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.”

              Romans 7:5 

And again, in Romans 8, Paul follows up by telling us:

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

                 Romans 8:8-13 

And it is this truth that we are being awakened to is these last days. There are not three options here..... flesh, Spirit and a mix to one degree or another of both. No, there are but two. We have been taught that we are slowly being transformed from old creatures to new ones, where we have less and less of our fleshly nature and more and more of our new victorious one. We have been taught wrong. 

We are either walking in the flesh or walking in the Spirit... I.e. the new man. If we are in the flesh, sin, to one degree or another, will reign over us. But praise God, if we are walking in the Spirit, we are told we owe the flesh nothing and that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, amen? 

Ever since the early rain ended, Satan has been able to convince us through a watering down of the truth, that in this life we will never escape the grip of sin, nd that our flesh will always be present, like an anchoring keeping us from soaring as overcomers.  But our God’s salvation is far greater than any of us have ever believed, and in these last days, we will understand exactly who we are in Christ. We are new creatures, overcomers of the world, the flesh and the devil. We owe the flesh and sin that goes with it NOTHING, and as our faith grows to believe this, so will our victory. 

Is there security for the believer here? Absolutely! God can and will keep us from falling, just as He promised. Our shields of faith WILL quench all the fiery arrows Satan throws at us. And when we are tempted, not only will He not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist, and not only will He make a way of escape so that we do not give into it, He will also.... listen closely, steuggling saints.... He will also CAUSE US to take that way of escape.... every time! Now that is security!

if sin still rears it’s ugly head in our lives, and here I am talking willful sin that we know is wrong and do it anyway, we are being ignorant of the danger that comes from sin, where our hearts can be hardened to the point that  our faith is slowly turned into head knowledge.  There is great danger here. Sin.... willful sin... must go.

Here is the question each one of us will have to answer in the days to come as the veil is pulled back to the truth that we are destined to walk totally victorious over the sins that once tripped us up time and again. And what is that question? 

Do we actually want to stop sinning?

Or do we see it too restrictive, infringing on our “free will”?  We have been clearly told that our God can and will cause us (His words, not mine) to will AND to do of His good pleasure. He has promised to insure we walk in true full obedience, abiding in Him all day every day. The only real question is..... does that appeal to us? It is one thing to say “I want such a walk but do not see how it is possible.” To you, God will move mountains to breathe  on your faith to see that you can believe it. But if your answer is “No thanks, even if it is possible”, great danger lurks. 

Listen, our fleshly nature is a liar and a traitor. We cannot re-train it. We cannot discipline it. We cannot force it to be good. And we cannot kill it.  We have one option. One. We can reckon it dead by faith, believing that when Christ died, so did the old us. Our flesh can be very religious, it can appear to be quite good outwardly. But it is still flesh, and they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Cannot.

That is a hard pill to swallow. But it is truth, truth that will set us free indeed if we will humble ourselves and tell our God we NEED new natures. We NEED victory. We NEED to abide in Him, 24/7/365. Will we admit it, or will we dig in our heels and tell God that we need nothing and that we are walking totally pleasing to Him and see no need for anything more?

The answer to this critical question will be required of each one of us as we enter the valley of decision. May there not be one heart resisting the truth that Christ in us can do what we could never do. Victory over Saran is our birthright. We have wandered in the wilderness of unbelief far to long. The land of promis3 awaits us. Shall we not go in together? 

Many blessings to all, 

Gideon

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Butero said:

What in the world are you talking about?  Did you go back and read 4000 of my posts?  If you read my last 4000 posts, it would show what you said is a lie.  I have most certainly mentioned the blood of Jesus.  You continue to make the same error others like you have done.  You pit one book of the Bible against another, and choose which ones to hold to.  You accuse me of ignoring the writings of Paul, but you will ignore Matthew, James and Hebrews.  That is a bazaar thing to say, because Hebrews was written by Paul.  You are also having to ignore Peter and the writings of John, especially the book of 1 John, chapter 3.  Your post is full of errors, so there really isn't much more to say about it.  

You most certainly are working your way to heaven.  Your faith is in the god OSAS, your doctrine.  That is what you are believing and trusting in to save you.  So long as you believe in OSAS, you remain saved.  You may as well set up a graven image to OSAS.  

 

 

 Nice try, but no cigar....my faith is in Paul’s Gospel given to him by Christ. That alone.If you really BELIEVE  the Gospel thAt Jesus promises WILL save.....you have no choice with the OSAS doctrine.....it just automatically comes along as a great benefit.....That doctrine DOES NOT SAVE !!! Can I make myself any more clear? Two People have to take a jet to Hawaii. One guy is absolutely certain that a jet can fly and he is so relaxed he can rest, he even falls asleep.The other guy has no confidence in jets. He is scared during the entire flight.No assurance for him. Eventually they both completed their tripTye jet proved to be worthy of the trip.The confidence of the one guy and the lack of confidence by the other had nothing to do with the successful trip.One guy enjoyed the ride. The other did not.This little tale could be analogous to our Christian journey. Fully believe what Christ accomplished at the Cross and enjoy the Walk or be not quite sure that Jesus died for ALL of our sins( maybe just the little ones and the ones we have repented of) and be insecure, one who lacks assurance during your walk. I hope it is just a case of weak faith and no full assurance for the NOSAS crowd .Regardless, it is the faith or lack of faith that determines everything,not the doctrine that comes with it.My problem is can you doubt the Gospel ( evidenced by thinking you have to add your good works and/or repentance to it) and believe it at the same time?No, doctrines do not save, but ones doctrine is evidence of ones faith which DOES save.I would be very interested to see how others think.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Do we not understand that this conflict.... flesh vs. Spirit  is not the state of a believer walking in his new nature. Does not Paul tell us in

Well, if you're referring to Galatians 5:7, the Spirit's opposition to our sinful nature (flesh, not the body but our human nature), I believe it often addresses what we decide to "do."

My understanding on Rom 7:14-25 is one "walking in the Spirit," which can have much variation in understanding between those who study the Bible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

 

 Nice try, but no cigar....my faith is in Paul’s Gospel given to him by Christ. That alone.If you really BELIEVE  the Gospel thAt Jesus promises WILL save.....you have no choice with the OSAS doctrine.....it just automatically comes along as a great benefit.....That doctrine DOES NOT SAVE !!! Can I make myself any more clear? Two People have to take a jet to Hawaii. One guy is absolutely certain that a jet can fly and he is so relaxed he can rest, he even falls asleep.The other guy has no confidence in jets. He is scared during the entire flight.No assurance for him. Eventually they both completed their tripTye jet proved to be worthy of the trip.The confidence of the one guy and the lack of confidence by the other had nothing to do with the successful trip.One guy enjoyed the ride. The other did not.This little tale could be analogous to our Christian journey. Fully believe what Christ accomplished at the Cross and enjoy the Walk or be not quite sure that Jesus died for ALL of our sins( maybe just the little ones and the ones we have repented of) and be insecure, one who lacks assurance during your walk. I hope it is just a case of weak faith and no full assurance for the NOSAS crowd .Regardless, it is the faith or lack of faith that determines everything,not the doctrine that comes with it.My problem is can you doubt the Gospel ( evidenced by thinking you have to add your good works and/or repentance to it) and believe it at the same time?No, doctrines do not save, but ones doctrine is evidence of ones faith which DOES save.I would be very interested to see how others think.

 

In all fairness, I wasn't coming against something you said, but I was dealing with a post that was full of false comments about things I said and made no logical sense.  At least I can understand what you said.  One thing that needs to be considered is that just because different people believe in OSAS, that doesn't mean they agree on all things, anymore than those who do not believe in OSAS would agree on all things.  

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, WordSword said:

 

My understanding on Rom 7:14-25 is one "walking in the Spirit," which can have much variation in understanding between those who study the Bible.

(If you wouldn’t mind me chiming in. It’s a issue close to my heart) 

As to what it means to walk “in the Spirit” all one would have to do is figure out what the Galatians did at first. For we read;   

Galatians 3:3 (NKJV)
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

So all one would have to do is figure out what they did at first. And a continuation of that would be “walking in the Spirit” and a continuation of that would be “living in the Spirit”. 

So what did the Galatians do at first? 

They simply “believed”

much love in Christ, Not me  

Edited by Not me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Butero said:

By saying that they are not really saved, you have made your doctrine of little more value than just a hypothetical theological discussion. 

No, false conversions are a reality in the Church.   A reality that you don't want to have to account for.   

Quote

I would say that the professing Christian that does such things either wasn't saved or fell from grace and is lost and you would say they were never saved. 

In the Bible "fallen from grace"  actually refers to the Galatians who were trying to live by the law, not living immoral sin.    

And yes, there are people who claim to be Christians who are not.  They either were never saved because they believe they are Christians for reasons that have nothing to  do with Jesus, or their conversion wasn't genuine.  Those people really do exist.  

Quote

Either way, same result.  Not only that, but it shows that a person can genuinely believe they are saved and be lost, so where is the assurance in that kind of salvation?  

There is none because that is not any kind of salvation.   Assurance is only granted to those who are genuinely saved. 

One of our biggest problems is that we accept people as Christians without asking them why they think they are Christians.  We are so afraid of questioning their salvation, that we would rather politely send them to Hell in order not to offend them, than to get them to honestly assess their true standing with God and come to a place of repentance and receive genuine salvation.

I heard about an old African-American preacher who once said about some people, "I gots to them lost, before I can gets them saved."  There is a lot of truth to that.   People don't realize they are sinners and they never had to face the reality of their sin the face of a holy God.   They have been "Christian" their whole lives since they were a child and just assumed that being confirmed and being a baptized member in good standing in their Church is enough. 

I knew a guy who went to church and walked down the aisle and "got saved" because he was in love with one of the girls in the church and knew she would not date a non-Christian.   There are people who "convert" for a variety of reasons.   Those people really do exist.

  • This is Worthy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

 

I knew a guy who went to church and walked down the aisle and "got saved" because he was in love with one of the girls in the church and knew she would not date a non-Christian.   There are people who "convert" for a variety of reasons. 

We use to call that 'galvation'. lol

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Yowm said:

We use to call that 'galvation'. lol

LOL :24:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×