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"Tribulation Saints" - A Fly in the Pretrib Ointment


Last Daze

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There is nothing before the 6th .... this sets the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel

The seals are a prelude leading up to the 6th .... the 7th reveals the 144,000 of Israel on the earth and the pre-tribulation church in heaven

All 5 seals are not actual events, but what is coming

The 8th chapter is the beginning of the tribulation period

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9 hours ago, Last Daze said:

According to the pretrib narrative, the body of Christ is made immortal and raptured at some point prior to the great tribulation.  At that point, there are no believers left on the planet.  The problem with that is that there are a multitude of believers beyond number who are martyred that come out of the great tribulation.

 

  • After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.  Revelation 7:9
  • I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  Revelation 7:14

Hi Last Daze,

Good question to ask as it pertains to us making sure we are looking for the Lord coming and growing in the knowledge of His purposes.

OK, so these people are described as -

- out of all the nations, - Gentiles.

- standing before the  throne and before the Lamb, - the Lamb (capital `L`) relates to God`s purpose for Israel (& thus the nations)

- clothed in white robes, - repented and accepted God`s salvation.

- palm branches, - indicating the time of the Tabernacle of God coming down, (New Jerusalem). The palm branches were what Israel built tabernacles with to remind them of God dwelling with them. The nations (Gentiles) shall walk in its light, on the earth.

- came out of the great tribulation, - did not take the mark of the beast.

- washed in the blood of the Lamb, - through Christ they are saved from hell and have eternal life, (on the earth).

 

Thus this great multitude are -

`And the nations (Gentiles) of those who are saved, shall walk in its (NJ) light, and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it.` (Rev. 21: 24) 

regards, Marilyn.

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45 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

There is nothing before the 6th .... this sets the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel

The seals are a prelude leading up to the 6th .... the 7th reveals the 144,000 of Israel on the earth and the pre-tribulation church in heaven

All 5 seals are not actual events, but what is coming

The 8th chapter is the beginning of the tribulation period

It is possible nothing happens in the 5th seal but that just lengthens the 6th seal and puts the earthquake in the middle or at the end of the 6th seal.  Anything before the great earthquake is tribulation.  Anything after the great earthquake is wrath.

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5 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

The correct understanding is "away from" .... but it makes no difference, "out of" is the same if understood correctly

Believe what you want, but Revelation 7:9-17 is telling of the pre-tribulation church in heaven before the coming tribulation upon the earth 

Some people just cannot stand the truth and in your case I believe that you have been deceived .... many scriptures show the followers of Jesus Christ already in heaven just before, during, and after the coming tribulation period [1st Corinthians 15:51-58; 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1, 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:1-10; 19:14; 20:4 .... those on thrones]

It sounds to me like you are pushing your narrative against the Lord's word for some reason 

No. And Yes. It's out from inside. From out of the midst of the action. You'll see.

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5 hours ago, Cletus said:

Where in the bible does it say... tribulation saints? 

Hi Cletus,

 

Tribulation saints is a label many have given to the people who die in the tribulation.  There are so many they cannot be counted. 

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6 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Post New Covenant Believers. 

Are there still some Jews who adhere to the Old Testament ways.  Animal sacrifices will come back.

Lets look;  There are O.T. Saints looking forward to that day of their redemption.  Pre - Flood, Post Flood, Pre - Israel, and those of Israel.  All are Saints and of the elect, and coming to the Saving knowledge before the fact.  Next the Bride of Christ, also Saints and of the elect and came to the Saving knowledge during the fact.  Next 70th Week (Tribulation Saints), Not of the Bride, these are all Saints and of the elect, but came to the Saving Knowledge after the fact, those left behind.  Then there will be Saints born during the Mill.  All these Saints have their names in the Lambs Book of Life.  Yet not all are the Bride.

In Christ

Montana Marv

According to scripture, when does the new covenant end?  I'm not interested in conjecture, only Book, Chapter, and Verse.

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"It is possible nothing happens in the 5th seal but that just lengthens the 6th seal and puts the earthquake in the middle or at the end of the 6th sea"

 

The 6th tells of the beginning of the Lord's wrath and judgment {Revelation 6:12-17]

The 70th week decreed for Israel which will last for 7 years

This wrath and judgment of the Lord will begin in chapter 8 and end in chapter 19

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"According to scripture, when does the new covenant end?  I'm not interested in conjecture, only Book, Chapter, and Verse"

 

It never ends

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3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

There is nothing before the 6th .... this sets the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel

The seals are a prelude leading up to the 6th .... the 7th reveals the 144,000 of Israel on the earth and the pre-tribulation church in heaven

All 5 seals are not actual events, but what is coming

As it says in Matthew 24.  Anything before the Great Earthquake is Tribulation.  Everything else after is God's Wrath.  

Tribulation is the wrath of the devil.  He is the one doing the persecuting. Which happens during the 1st Woe

Rev 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."

Edited by Brother Duke
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41 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

This wrath and judgment of the Lord will begin in chapter 8 and end in chapter 19

In Chapters 8 to 19th the wrath does not start until Rev 11:13 as shown in Matthew 24.  Everything before is Tribulation.

Rev 11:13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand men were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

 

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